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feltipern1

Does it feel like X-Wing's become unimportant to FFG?

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The title pretty much says it all, but I thought I'd offer some context.  We haven't really had any news about anything for several months, and with the Gen-Con announcement today (no mention of X-Wing, where it's usually prominent), does it feel to anyone else like X-Wing's been left on the back burner for a long time?  I mean, I understand that COVID's basically shot most hobbies through the heart, particularly in the US, but I would have thought that something would have been forthcoming by now.

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I'm in two different online league/tourney/things right now and it's all just kinda come to a screeching halt because we expected new points and now...

I open up YASB, I stare for a bit, I sigh, I close YASB, I go about my day.

I mean, it's... fine?  The game is still playable.  Nothing's terrible.  But the hangover from expecting something new and then getting bubkis, it's kinda left me unmotivated to play.

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I think it was just oversight on their part, or perhaps it’s because we already know all the news even if it’s not officially confirmed.

If you think about it, distributor leaks has left us with what, 8 new products coming on top of the wave that got delayed?

xwing is still FFG’s bread and butter and the entry level minis game. No way it’s being deemed unimportant. 

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I’m sure X-Wing has become less important, indeed we’ve pretty much had that confirmed by insider leaks last year.

Less important is not the same as unimportant, but I understand X-Wing has dropped a couple of spots in the totem pole.

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Already last year they were saying that "X-wing isn't carrying the water as it used to."
I bet it was because of the change of edition, but also due to the sequel movies being what they are, and the absurd choice of reprints.

I imagine this year's hotness is solo games, or coop games you can play home with your family, due to the global pandemia.

And FFG really never focused X-wing on that. In the interview with the creator of HotAC, he said that when he showed it to Alex Davy, he was impressed with the quality "but didn't know what to do of it". As if they couldn't wrap their minds about the idea of someone wanting to play X-wing in coop or solo.

The Solo Alpha AI system they came up with last month looks like a totally rushed measure to try and give some reason to the customers to keep buying X-wing products in these times when fully competitive, tournament oriented board games without online presence must not be doing very well.

I am not confident that FFG is actually having serious plans in respect to this solo/coop mode, though.
If they did, they would have contacted the HotAC creator, or the people that have put the effort to update the system to 2.0, and get something out fast and well supported, with good production values, before people lose interest and move onto other pandemia-friendly games.
Instead, the seem to have told someone to put together a PDF with generic rules, and throw it at the community to see what they make of it.
I might be wrong, but that is the impression I get. And impressions and appearances is what I use to guide my spending in hobbies.

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My personal experience with Covid is that many companies are doing their absolute best to overcome production and supply issues, as well as managing internal and external communications when many employees are working from home and are often in uncertain/anxious environments. So it might seem from the outside that the company isn't doing much, but on the inside they are doing their best with a very poor situation, like we all are. I'm sure any perception that X-Wing is no longer a priority is an unintended consequence of the pandemic, rather than an intentional move by FFG. They love X-Wing! Ships go swoosh.

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1 hour ago, Azrapse said:

I imagine this year's hotness is solo games, or coop games you can play home with your family, due to the global pandemia.

This is two different audiences.  There are many Euro-style solo games around which don't work that well if you want to attract your family.

1 hour ago, Azrapse said:

I am not confident that FFG is actually having serious plans in respect to this solo/coop mode, though.
If they did, they would have contacted the HotAC creator, or the people that have put the effort to update the system to 2.0, and get something out fast and well supported, with good production values, before people lose interest and move onto other pandemia-friendly games.
Instead, the seem to have told someone to put together a PDF with generic rules, and throw it at the community to see what they make of it.
I might be wrong, but that is the impression I get. And impressions and appearances is what I use to guide my spending in hobbies.

Quoting Josh:

Quote

I’ve since heard that various other FFG employees have played the campaign

They know what they're doing.  To attract new players who might like to move miniatures and roll dice casually, you don't go Gloomhaven.  (Recall that the Gloomhaven author is also publishing a stripped-down version of his game this year...)  Let's see how the next AI iteration looks like, if they follow that route.

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2 hours ago, Azrapse said:

Already last year they were saying that "X-wing isn't carrying the water as it used to."
I bet it was because of the change of edition, but also due to the sequel movies being what they are, and the absurd choice of reprints.

I imagine this year's hotness is solo games, or coop games you can play home with your family, due to the global pandemia.

Yup - I spent my money on buying FFG’s Journeys in Middle Earth precisely because it has the ability to play solo.

I’ll always do my part to support xwing and the LGS we used to play at; it’s just hard with so much content in the pipe and no clue when it comes. Part of me wants to save up in anticipation of all the leaks because they all excite me (even the squadron packs), and part of me wants to use the downtime to stock up on the extra copies so I can play lists like 5x rz2 or 4x jedi and broadside.

I don’t think the sequel movies did any real part in what’s going on with xwing; but you are correct some odd choices in reprints likely didn’t do them any favors. I’m really missing the tie bomber and there had to be a better choice for scum than the YV. 

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1 hour ago, Canopus said:

They know what they're doing.  To attract new players who might like to move miniatures and roll dice casually, you don't go Gloomhaven.  (Recall that the Gloomhaven author is also publishing a stripped-down version of his game this year...)  Let's see how the next AI iteration looks like, if they follow that route.

I am not sure why you are tracing a line between HotAC and Euro-games. Hotac is as much Ameri-trash as "versus X-wing". It's not really so different from Descent 2 or Imperial Assault.
If they wanted to, they would do as they did with Descent 2 or Imperial Assault and make an app that plays the AI for you, just telling you where to move the enemies each turn, and let the player play solo or coop with friends/family.
But they don't want to.
I think, from the very beginning they thought that X-wing is versus, and versus is X-wing, and anything else is anathema, even if they publicly say "We love seeing those fan-mad coop campaigns", while grinding their teeth.
Perhaps they saw no real widespread use of that Mission Control tool they made, or the scenarios they used to pack with each large ship box, and they were told to only focus on adding more and more pieces to the 1vs1 side of the game, and treat the rest as an anomaly.
I still think this decision is biting them in the *** now.

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1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

there had to be a better choice for scum than the YV. 

Or the Z95. Or the M3A. Or the JM5K.

They needed to reprint rare or popular ships from the game. Gunboats especially. They're not overperforming in any way, but they go for $60+ a pop on ebay. There were plenty of rare Imperial ships that could have been reprinted before we got the Defender or Interceptor, which had plenty of 1st Edition versions on the shelf. Two of the rare ships are even usable: TIE Phantom and TIE Defender. They seem to have the pulse of Rebels though, releasing what is popular and needed first. The finally got to the Ghost which isn't super great, but it came with the Sheathipede, so remained a relevant release.

I wonder: how far in advance does FFG choose what is being printed?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

I’m sure X-Wing has become less important, indeed we’ve pretty much had that confirmed by insider leaks last year.

Less important is not the same as unimportant, but I understand X-Wing has dropped a couple of spots in the totem pole.

And I am pretty sure these spots were taken by Legion, Marvel Champions and Keyforge.

Marvel champions got a new hero / pack every month before covid, Legion got A TON of new stuff, and they have Maul and Anakin incoming (but not announced yet) (see Lion Rampant website), and Keyforge has their latest big release programmed for july 10.
 

Edited by Silver_leader

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6 minutes ago, Silver_leader said:

And I am pretty sure these spots were taken by Legion, Marvel Champions and Keyforge.

We should also note the ease of production for those compared to X-wing. Keyforge, Lot5R, and Keyforge are all card games. With no models to produce, they are do doubt easier to manufacture and push out faster. Legion does have models, but they come unpainted. Legion also has a decent amount less of cardboard to manufacture as well.

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11 hours ago, feltipern1 said:

does it feel to anyone else like X-Wing's been left on the back burner for a long time?

It feels that way but that's just because FFG has had so many releases and articles and updates for X-Wing compared to literally every other game they make.

10 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

xwing is still FFG’s bread and butter and the entry level minis game. No way it’s being deemed unimportant. 

This isn't true anymore, FFG employees said as much. While still important, it isn't their bread and butter, whether from circumstance or from FFG actively moving in a different direction. I think they saw something on the horizon and want to put more effort into their other miniatures games.

5 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

I’m sure X-Wing has become less important, 

This is what has happened. FFG employees essentially said they want to focus more on Legion and Armada. Legion has been performing really well for them and Armada as always has been there and a surprise to them with it's performance. They want to lean into those two games more.

Also, bad reprint choices in some cases.

3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Hoping to get more games of Xwing some time in some way. Miss this game. 

TTS is a great substitute for this. It simulates actual games well, although nothing makes up for the tactile feel of actually holding plastic ships and joking in person with buddies.

2 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Yup - I spent my money on buying FFG’s Journeys in Middle Earth precisely because it has the ability to play solo.

How has that been?

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1 hour ago, Silver_leader said:

And I am pretty sure these spots were taken by Legion, Marvel Champions and Keyforge.

Marvel champions got a new hero / pack every month before covid, Legion got A TON of new stuff, and they have Maul and Anakin incoming (but not announced yet) (see Lion Rampant website), and Keyforge has their latest big release programmed for july 10.
 

Legion also has had long droughts before too. And xwing has way more stuff on the way if the lion rampant site is correct.

4 minutes ago, Skitch_ said:

How has that been?

It’s been alright. The game feels different compared to other games I’ve played. I like the skill deck check versus rolling dice to mix it up; makes for tough choices of “do I want this really cool ability at the cost of having one less good result in my deck for skill checks?”

I feel the game would be better with friends for sure. The hardest part for me is immersion, because the enemies are entirely AI controlled. It’s like trying to play an app game with physical parts, so without a DM/GM type and not having friends to share the experience with it can be a chore on some levels of the story.

I doubt I will buy the Shadowed Paths until after Covid when I can play with friends.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Azrapse said:

I imagine this year's hotness is solo games, or coop games you can play home with your family, due to the global pandemia.

And FFG really never focused X-wing on that.

XWM's Achilles Heel has consistently been a lack of well-supported official alternate options for play.

Sure, there's Epic, and a Missions box, and now a Solo play option, but these have all felt like they turned into fire-and-forget projects rather than FFG vigorously attempting to truly diversify how folks can play the game.

When I would go to the FLGS (back in the old days, before the Emperor virus), I would ask about Epic, or Environments, or Missions, and no one wanted to do more than bang out 200-point games to practice a list.

Right now, this translates into 3rd party products like the TTS that can't really support 6x3 epic, elements for missions, and the like, so that folks can play silly x-wing online together.  The constant focus on tournament play has hampered any conversion to something new when tournament play is not an option.

However, what makes me the most concerned about XWM's future is the failure to see a new app for months.  If there is one thing that could get finished during a pandemic, it's a computer program.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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