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Fl1nt

Arakyd Mini-Missile/Missile Pack

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Posted (edited)

Hello, 

I'm currently in the process of setting up a wiki for my players so they can get a better overview of what options and gear there is.

I was kinda aware of the Arakyd Missile Packs but upon reading through them again I find them to be quite a mess Rules-wise. 

Apart from the weird way their profile is given, described as an attachment rather than a weapon's profile, it states they fire a cluster of 5 missiles. \\ 

But since stuff like gets 2 Boost or gets 1 Setback isn't codified into the weapon as Accurate 2 / Inaccurate 1 for some reason, what does it mean in your opinion regarding the "fires a cluster of 5 missiles" ? 

Currently I think it's just a fluff sentence since firing 5 damage 5 missiles at once would seem kinda powerful for that low price tag.  (Especially since 1 Concussion Missile costs 500 credits, but 2 Packs of Arakyd Unguided Rockets (that are almost as powerful) cost 300, so 10 Missiles for 300 credits). 
Or am I reading this completely wrong and each of the missiles costs 300 credits? 

To be honest I dont get at all how this weapon is supposed to work 😅
Can different Missiles / Rockets be mixed? Is the price listed per Missile or per Pack or per 2 Packs? 
I feel like I'm missing something here xD
 

What's your take on this oddball of a weaponsystem ? 

Edited by Fl1nt

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28 minutes ago, Fl1nt said:

Apart from the weird way their profile is given, described as an attachment rather than a weapon's profile, it states they fire a cluster of 5 missiles. \\ 

But since stuff like gets 2 Boost or gets 1 Setback isn't codified into the weapon as Accurate 2 / Inaccurate 1 for some reason, what does it mean in your opinion regarding the "fires a cluster of 5 missiles"?

Currently I think it's just a fluff sentence since firing 5 damage 5 missiles at once would seem kinda powerful for that low price tag.  (Especially since 1 Concussion Missile costs 500 credits, but 2 Packs of Arakyd Unguided Rockets (that are almost as powerful) cost 300, so 10 Missiles for 300 credits). 
Or am I reading this completely wrong and each of the missiles costs 300 credits? 

It fires a cluster of five missiles "in a spread pattern." When you fire something in a spread pattern, you are more likely to get a hit, but not especially likely to get several hits. The two Boost represents the increased chance to hit and the Success adding 2 Damage represents the chance of a near hit or a second hit with one of the other rockets in the pack. The reason they wouldn't say Accurate 2 is because that is incompatible with Inaccurate and they have to say that you add it to the profile, which is likely to cause more confusion than just saying "Add two Boost to attacks." It also doesn't make narrative sense to call it Accurate.

As for the Setback on the unguided rocket, I don't know why they wouldn't make it Inaccurate.

The text seems to suggest that you purchase each missile individually, but saying that the single profile for the missiles is the price for five would be reasonable and might make more sense. The price sits somewhere between what I would expect for a set of five or a price for one. For comparison, a rack of six missiles for a Missile Tube costs 500 credits.

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Posted (edited)

Good point.

The other thing that confuses me though is, that it says it can be loaded with concussion missiles (which also cost 500 per Missile according to some Weapons).

 

Regarding the "Accurate": How would it make it incompatible? 
I see your point that it wouldn't make sense descriptively to call it Accurate but mechanically a weapon can have both Accurate and Inaccurate I thought? They dont cancel each other out as far as I know.

Edited by Fl1nt

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19 minutes ago, Fl1nt said:

Regarding the "Accurate": How would it make it incompatible? 
I see your point that it wouldn't make sense descriptively to call it Accurate but mechanically a weapon can have both Accurate and Inaccurate I thought? They dont cancel each other out as far as I know.

I think you're right. I think I just decided a while ago (minor houserule) that Inaccurate cancelled Accurate and Superior canceled out Inferior rather than having both on a weapon at the same time. It simplifies things.

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5 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I think you're right. I think I just decided a while ago (minor houserule) that Inaccurate cancelled Accurate and Superior canceled out Inferior rather than having both on a weapon at the same time. It simplifies things.

That makes sense, but keep in mind that Boost dice are better than Setback dice.

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I can see the reason behind that, I'd probably also do it this way if I weren't in the middle of a campaign :)

 

That aside, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the Arakyd 😕 

So for the Part of the Price per Missile thing:
Several Rulebooks (Core for example) state that additional Concussion Missiles cost 500 Credits.
Since the Arakyd can be loaded with either Concussion Missiles, the specialized Missiles listed in the Entry of the Arakyd and any other Missiles/Rockets the GM approves of, 
I now think that the Price listed is in actuality the price per missile / rocket.
Otherwise the Price for Concussion Missiles wouldn't make any sense.

If that's correct the missiles are alot more expensive than I thought, but on the other hand it would be sensible since they're quite powerful.

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10 minutes ago, Fl1nt said:

I can see the reason behind that, I'd probably also do it this way if I weren't in the middle of a campaign :)

 

That aside, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the Arakyd 😕 

So for the Part of the Price per Missile thing:
Several Rulebooks (Core for example) state that additional Concussion Missiles cost 500 Credits.
Since the Arakyd can be loaded with either Concussion Missiles, the specialized Missiles listed in the Entry of the Arakyd and any other Missiles/Rockets the GM approves of, 
I now think that the Price listed is in actuality the price per missile / rocket.
Otherwise the Price for Concussion Missiles wouldn't make any sense.

If that's correct the missiles are alot more expensive than I thought, but on the other hand it would be sensible since they're quite powerful.

I believe you are correct. That is a good point about the Concussion Missiles, something I hadn't accounted for in my earlier analysis.

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49 minutes ago, Fl1nt said:

So for the Part of the Price per Missile thing:
Several Rulebooks (Core for example) state that additional Concussion Missiles cost 500 Credits.
Since the Arakyd can be loaded with either Concussion Missiles, the specialized Missiles listed in the Entry of the Arakyd and any other Missiles/Rockets the GM approves of, 
I now think that the Price listed is in actuality the price per missile / rocket.
Otherwise the Price for Concussion Missiles wouldn't make any sense.

If that's correct the missiles are alot more expensive than I thought, but on the other hand it would be sensible since they're quite powerful.

Since I've been staring at vehicle grade concussion missiles for the past couple of days, and looking over the Arakyd profile, I would personally rule that the price for the Arakyd missiles is for a rack of 5. If it wasn't, every time you fired, whether you hit or not, would be 2500 credits down the drain at a base cost. I dont know how much money you plan on giving your players, but mine could never justify the cost vs benefit of such a weapon, especially when, damage wise, they're better off with using standard concussion missiles.

However, I'd also rule these missilies are only compatible with the missile pack, as they have miniaturized patented tracking tech that allow them to be fired in clusters like they are.

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2 minutes ago, GameboyAK said:

Since I've been staring at vehicle grade concussion missiles for the past couple of days, and looking over the Arakyd profile, I would personally rule that the price for the Arakyd missiles is for a rack of 5. If it wasn't, every time you fired, whether you hit or not, would be 2500 credits down the drain at a base cost. I dont know how much money you plan on giving your players, but mine could never justify the cost vs benefit of such a weapon, especially when, damage wise, they're better off with using standard concussion missiles.

However, I'd also rule these missilies are only compatible with the missile pack, as they have miniaturized patented tracking tech that allow them to be fired in clusters like they are.

Yeah that sounds like a good idea. 

At the moment my player's wouldn't probably want this weapon if they found it for free because the munitions would be so expensive.

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Actually, I would charge full price for the Concussion Missiles. 

The cost is the drawback. 

The advantage is the +2 damage per Success, without having to increase the Difficulty or roll x amount of Advantage. 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

Actually, I would charge full price for the Concussion Missiles. 

The cost is the drawback. 

The advantage is the +2 damage per Success, without having to increase the Difficulty or roll x amount of Advantage. 

In general I would agree, but the amount of money required is kinda out there. 
But you have a point, +2 Damage per Success is also really strong.... 

I don't know, charging full will make this weapon pretty much a npc only weapon (since my players would avoid it like the plague with that price tag). 
On the other hand, they could well have the credits for it if decided on it as a group... 
Bit torn here to be honest xD

Edit: 
I'm thinking about double or triple price for 1 Pack, so for a Pack of 5 Concussion Missiles 1500, its still alot more pricey than 1 normal Concussion Missile and one would still need 1 Pack per Shot but it would trim down the cost to restock the launcher fully from 5000 to 3000 credits. 
Still alot but maybe a compromise, as I really don't find that the advantages of the Arakyd outweigh such a high restock cost.

Edited by Fl1nt

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Perhaps fluff it as being sold as a pack. They can pick up a batch of 20 (10 if that's too many credits) missiles for 40% off. This makes it a higher buy-in cost, but justifies the lower total cost. Plus, you aren't generally buying ordnance like that individually.

On the flip side of NPC only is that most of the time, ordnance costs are going to be handled by the organization the PCs are a part of, not so much by the PCs themselves. Thus, the cost is something of a moot point. That doesn't really help you in your case, but it's just a thought.

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Just now, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Perhaps fluff it as being sold as a pack. They can pick up a batch of 20 (10 if that's too many credits) missiles for 40% off. This makes it a higher buy-in cost, but justifies the lower total cost. Plus, you aren't generally buying ordnance like that individually.

On the flip side of NPC only is that most of the time, ordnance costs are going to be handled by the organization the PCs are a part of, not so much by the PCs themselves. Thus, the cost is something of a moot point. That doesn't really help you in your case, but it's just a thought.

yeah, Batch-Sale might be a good option.

The thing with NPC-Only came out wrong I think. 
What I meant was that with that high cost only my Adversaries that go up against my group would be likely to have this, since my players would probably not want to buy it (but on the other hand, that's their decision to make) ;)

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37 minutes ago, Fl1nt said:

The thing with NPC-Only came out wrong I think. 
What I meant was that with that high cost only my Adversaries that go up against my group would be likely to have this, since my players would probably not want to buy it (but on the other hand, that's their decision to make) ;)

No, I understood you. I was just saying that an NPC benefactor could keep PCs supplied, depending on their organizational structure. Sounds like it wouldn't apply in your case, though.

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3 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

No, I understood you. I was just saying that an NPC benefactor could keep PCs supplied, depending on their organizational structure. Sounds like it wouldn't apply in your case, though.

Yeah they're currently more or less independent. 
Lose ties to various benefactors (including a Hutt, the Black-Sun and an Unknown Benefactor [ISB but they dont know that]) but they are too paranoid to really closely work with any of them xD 

 

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16 hours ago, salamar_dree said:

Actually, I would charge full price for the Concussion Missiles. 

The cost is the drawback. 

The advantage is the +2 damage per Success, without having to increase the Difficulty or roll x amount of Advantage. 

The 2 extra damage per success isn't enough to justify charging 5 concussion missiles per shot with this thing. This weapon can only be RAW fired at a single target, with a required 5 shot burst, whether it be a speeder bike or a walker. It being a Limited Ammo 2 also doesn't help, meaning you're spending 5000 credits to destroy one, maybe two targets, since the scaling of firing a single concussion missile from a launcher rather than the 5 from the pack doesn't really justify the cost/benefit difference 

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2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Perhaps fluff it as being sold as a pack. They can pick up a batch of 20 (10 if that's too many credits) missiles for 40% off. This makes it a higher buy-in cost, but justifies the lower total cost. Plus, you aren't generally buying ordnance like that individually.

This is probably this best way to go about this kind of issue with prices

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 You can run it any way that your GM (or you, if you are the GM) wants to.

A Twin Concussion Missile Launcher is 11,250 Credits, and normally has Limited Ammo 6 (that's 12 missiles, as it has Linked 1).

The Missile Pack is 10,000 credits (Limited Ammo 2/10 missiles).

In both cases you can assume that the price includes an initial loadout of ammo.

The Missile Pack fires 5 missiles (2500 credits) vs. A Twin Concussion Missile Launcher, which fires 2 (1000 credits).

The chance to trigger Linked may well be more beneficial than 2 damage per Success. 

Is the Missile Pack worth it?

Maybe, maybe not. I will point out that the weapon system is in the Hired Gun supplement. This should inform the type of character that the weapon system would appeal to. 

If credits are going to be tight in a specific campaign, then any weapon with Limited Ammo might be too expensive, and the group should stick to lasers.

In that case, the GM is well within their right to simply exclude any item, attachment, weapon, and even vehicle that doesn't fit the campaign.

Note: There is also Dev answered question indicating that you can choose to only fire 1 missile, even if the weapon system has Linked. If you do, that will stretch the Ammo out. However, Linked cannot be activated in this case.

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37 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

A Twin Concussion Missile Launcher is 11,250 Credits, and normally has Limited Ammo 6 (that's 12 missiles, as it has Linked 1).

No, you take 2 Concussion Missile Launchers for 11,250 credits (7,500+7,500/2) and you get Limited Ammo 3 on each launcher for Limited Ammo 6 total. That's 6 missiles. Each time you fire, you fire 2 missiles and you drop down to 4, then 2, then 0 missiles remaining. This was clarified in a dev answered question.

I include the first batch of ordnance if the PCs are purchasing a vehicle, but if they are purchasing a weapon system they generally have to purchase the ordnance separately unless a dealer throws it in as part of the deal (possibly as a result of the check).

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