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Talk to me about TIE Aggressors

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Stay OT Leader said:

a good dial

Highly debatable.

It's a TIE Bomber with 1 less health. The TIE Bomber isn't exactly known for its maneuverability, and at least its linked action gets it a lock that can be saved.

It's very close to the right price. But everything you want to put on it costs too much, and the cost of upgrading to a TIE Bomber is cheaper. Basically, a 1-point hull upgrade gets purchased every time, and the other upgrades it could take aren't worth it.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

latest?cb=20181024070640

MFW this isn't a good dial:

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It’s about as middle of the road as you can get. It’s worse than an X-Wing or TIE/ln dial. Only one turnaround and inflexible blues. No 1-turn or 5-straight.

It’s almost identical to a TIE Bomber’s dial, which costs 1 point for a whole extra hitpoint. That’s the issue.

 It’s just okay.

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And compared to a Torrent dial, it's quite good.  Like, Torrent essentially can't pull speed 3 moves.

Just put a ****ing turret on it, and forget about what a TIE Bomber costs.

Am I like the only person who's actually flown naked TIE/sfs?  Like, just having an extra arc for time on target--with mods--is pretty dang good.  Compared to a TIE/sf, down a health.  That's worth less than 5 points, and the difference is 3--29 vs 32.  Dials are fairly close (SF is a tad better).  Aggressor has a more variable arc, and access to a linked action; SF has range 3 on the rear gun (but 2 dice at Range 3 is pretty weak).

And circling round to the dial again, given that this is a turret ship, this might be a more practical dial than a Scyk.  1-straight is an incredibly important move for a turret, and access to 3-hards is useful for getting around rocks while keeping side guns on target.  I could see it going either way.  Mostly, what I'm getting at is that on a non-turret ship, M3-A dial is a clear winner.  On a turret, it's not so clear.  To that end, I've gotta spin up turret-carrying Scyks in FlyCasual sometime.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Highly debatable.

It's a TIE Bomber with 1 less health. The TIE Bomber isn't exactly known for its maneuverability, and at least its linked action gets it a lock that can be saved.

It's very close to the right price. But everything you want to put on it costs too much, and the cost of upgrading to a TIE Bomber is cheaper. Basically, a 1-point hull upgrade gets purchased every time, and the other upgrades it could take aren't worth it.

I mean, the TIE Bomber is the most undercosted ship in the game so pointing out that the TIE Aggressor is only the second most undercosted ship in the game isn't a massive criticism.  The Scimitar is a joke at how cheap it is, which I've been banging on about for a year and every time I run some maths analysis the TIE Bomber consistently leaps out as an outlier.

Scimitar was 16pts in First Edition which translates to ~32pts.  It costs 27pts which is a 23% discount.  The TIE/fo which everyone understands is crazy cheap only has a 17% discount.  But on top of having a ridiculous price cut the TIE Bomber also has a much improved dial from First Edition, a linked action, and a groovy pilot ability.

TIE Bombers are RIDICULOUS.  That the TIE Aggressor is only slightly worse than a TIE Bomber is... pretty much exactly my point?

(ps.  The TIE Aggressor has a 24% cost discount vs First Edition)

Edited by Stay OT Leader

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7 minutes ago, Stay OT Leader said:

Scimitar was 16pts in First Edition which translates to ~32pts.  It costs 27pts which is a 23% discount.  The TIE/fo which everyone understands is crazy cheap only has a 17% discount.  But on top of having a ridiculous price cut the TIE Bomber also has a much improved dial from First Edition, a linked action, and a groovy pilot ability.

TIE Bombers are RIDICULOUS.  That the TIE Aggressor is only slightly worse than a TIE Bomber is... pretty much exactly my point?

(ps.  The TIE Aggressor has a 24% cost discount vs First Edition)

I don't know how much a First Edition comparison matters here, given that all of the ships mentioned above were completely unplayable trash at their First Edition prices.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

I don't know how much a First Edition comparison matters here, given that all of the ships mentioned above were completely unplayable trash at their First Edition prices.

It matters.  Almost all the generics were 'unplayable trash' but have become playable in 2nd Edition with far smaller discounts than something like the TIE Bomber got (along with all the other buffs the Bomber got while its cost was coming down).

On it's own it lacks context, yes.  But in this case the context is "and all the other things that were bad in 1.0 but are good in 2.0 have seen smaller points drops and they didn't get three other buffs into the deal at the same time" so it should be a pretty reliable indicator that there's value here.

The TIE Bomber is also outstanding in mathematical analysis of their defensive and offensive stats for their cost.  It's also now starting to appear in successful squads (made cut in Space Jams) despite the fact 99% of players are ignoring it because they still think it's the 1.0 ship.  I mean, there was a whole thread here about how bad the Bomber was which just had all the good players I know laughing at what was being said.

Edited by Stay OT Leader

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Posted (edited)

the point with tie aggressor seems to be that because of its dial you need to equip a turret to make it work.

BUT

IF you do it it seems to cost too much compared to a bomber or a torrent

So to me alternatives are:

1) points reduction (maybe NOT necessary)

2) a new configuration 

It would be cool if aggressors have a config maybe that links an additional effect if you are evading

in this way people would use more the barrel in red evade linked action and can decide to stress themself to obtain an additional effect giving a personality to the ship.

the stress mechanic could help to balance this config additional effect without great points increases

what do you think about it?

 

sorry for my english

Edited by Manolox

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Why do some people say they should have a Sensor slot? Do they want to push them to being the same as other existing ships, so that they can use the same "good" load-outs? How dull.

TIE x1, TIE v1, Gunboats, Defenders, Punishers and Phantoms all have Sensors already. There's no need for the Aggressor to have it too. I would suggest keeping some variety in the faction.

People who actually play Aggressors know what would be nice - more turret options, and some cheap Gunner options. That's all they are really wanting.

Until then, throw on an Ion Cannon Turret and they're really good to go.

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9 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

5x Ion Aggressor, 2x Academy Pilot = 199

This needs to be played. Total Ace killer with all those ion turrets and two blockers. And poor Decimators will just head straight off the board 🙂

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34 minutes ago, Rossetti1828 said:

This needs to be played. Total Ace killer with all those ion turrets and two blockers. And poor Decimators will just head straight off the board 🙂

That squad should one of the best things Imperial players can put onto the table with current points value.

Good luck finding Aggressors though, they’re a lot rarer than Gunboats.

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26 minutes ago, Stay OT Leader said:

Good luck finding Aggressors though, they’re a lot rarer than Gunboats.

This is their biggest problem... Until they're back out in print, if they ever are, arguing over what FFG should do to improve or use them is a near simile to arguing over vaporware enhancements for a vaporware product... Yes I contributed to a suggestion a few pages back. That suggestion is based in them being rereleased in 2.0, unlike allot of what has been discussed in this thread recently. Until they are rereleased all of the "discussion" about points and slots is effectively nothing more than wanting something changed for the "benefit" of TTS or Vassal games.

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2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

This is their biggest problem... Until they're back out in print, if they ever are, arguing over what FFG should do to improve or use them is a near simile to arguing over vaporware enhancements for a vaporware product... Yes I contributed to a suggestion a few pages back. That suggestion is based in them being rereleased in 2.0, unlike allot of what has been discussed in this thread recently. Until they are rereleased all of the "discussion" about points and slots is effectively nothing more than wanting something changed for the "benefit" of TTS or Vassal games.

To an extent.  I'm sure I could lend and borrow and loan 5 TIE Aggressors if I needed to.

I 100% expect them to never be rereleased in Second Edition.  I think the logical conclusion we are heading to with FFG's new release strategy will be abandoning all the unreleased ships from organised play sooner or later.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, DR4CO said:

I don't know how much a First Edition comparison matters here, given that all of the ships mentioned above were completely unplayable trash at their First Edition prices.

As Scyk was named. The Scyk is at a first look 10.7% cheaper in 2nd ed, but the dial got worse. It lost 2 blue maneuvers, 2banks are white now. Only 4 blues now on an "Interceptor". So not really discounted.

 

5 hours ago, Rossetti1828 said:

This needs to be played. Total Ace killer with all those ion turrets and two blockers. And poor Decimators will just head straight off the board 🙂

I had surprising fun with this last week at the local club, wanted to try a Kestal iteration. She is still not good, but as a casual ace hunter toolbox, the list was better than I expected.

Fifth Brother (42)    
    Passive Sensors (3)    
    Homing Missiles (5)        
Ship total: 50  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 2    
    
Lieutenant Kestal (31)    
    Ion Cannon Turret (5)    
    Barrage Rockets (8)    
 Ship total: 44  Half Points: 22  Threshold: 3    
    
Major Rhymer (37)    
    Cluster Missiles (5)    
    Seismic Charges (3)        
Ship total: 45  Half Points: 23  Threshold: 3    
    
Soontir Fel (53)    
    Shield Upgrade (8)        
Ship total: 61  Half Points: 31  Threshold: 2    
   
Total: 200 

Passive on 5th brother for having the lock against the big orange numbers. You can argue about barrage, but I tried it without, it was a lot less punchy, and opponent was much more willing to just joust Kestal off the board when she had only the piddly 2 dice primary. And she anyways wants to focus all the time. You can argue about shield upgrade as well but in two of my games Soontir totally blanked (cannot avoid every arc) and was only saved by the shield. Maybe leave off Seismic for bit, but you should learn flying second player as well.

Edited by Managarmr
Spellling

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31 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

As Scyk was named. The Scyk is at a first look 10.7% cheaper in 2nd ed, but the dial got worse. It lost 2 blue maneuvers, 2banks are white now. Only 4 blues now on an "Interceptor". So not really discounted.

It also gained a hull.  Vs the comparable Heavy Scyk it's a 22% discount.

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On 7/3/2020 at 2:56 AM, Stay OT Leader said:

5x Ion Aggressor, 2x Academy Pilot = 199

I dont have 5 Aggressors, but you better believe im going to start flying 

4x Ion missle Tie bomber, 1x Ion Aggressor, 2x Academy pilot for the same price!

Id rather have the 5 ags. But this ion swarm will be a blast!

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20 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

I 100% expect them to never be rereleased in Second Edition.  I think the logical conclusion we are heading to with FFG's new release strategy will be abandoning all the unreleased ships from organised play sooner or later.

 

 

 That post warrants its own thread.  I agree with it but I wouldnt be surprised if the rumored ace/squadron packs stealth reprint a ship or 2 specifically the ST factions (scavenged yt-1300, upsilon).  

 

I definitely agree that the aggressor will not be reprinted.  So if you stumble into one in the wild buy it.  To me what hurts the aggressor the most, is just how good the empire is as a faction.  It just doesn't stand out.   

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I was never trying to say that Aggressors are bad because the bomber is 1 point more.

I’m just saying they’re not played because the bomber is 1 point more. Hull upgrade for 1 point will always be autoinclude and a turret isn’t (currently) sufficient reason to miss out on a free hull.

Sure, if Bombers started at 29ish where they should the Aggressor would be everywhere. That’s not the world we live in though.

I do still think 25 would be slightly more fair a starting point for the Aggressor but that’s just, like, my opinion man.

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