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Tonbo Karasu

A Discerning Eye and an Unyielding Resolve

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I did consider the conclusion at the end a jump in logic by Chiari. Specially given how throughout the rest of the story they have emphasized how careful she is about making and voicing conclusions. I was expecting a replay along the lines of "the emperor was assassinated and the scorpion are covering up" or "covering up something" only, maybe a "taking advantage of the situation placing agents everywhere". The "shoju killed the emperor" was a very "un-Chiari" like response to me

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, RafaelNN said:

I did consider the conclusion at the end a jump in logic by Chiari. Specially given how throughout the rest of the story they have emphasized how careful she is about making and voicing conclusions. I was expecting a replay along the lines of "the emperor was assassinated and the scorpion are covering up" or "covering up something" only, maybe a "taking advantage of the situation placing agents everywhere". The "shoju killed the emperor" was a very "un-Chiari" like response to me

It was mentioned in her first story that her instructors used to have to caution her against jumping to conclusions so its actually probably not that out of character for her.

Edited by Schmoozies

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What does Sumiko do next, indeed.  She knows, or at least firmly believes, that the edict naming Shoju regent is legitimate, but that might lead her to suspect Toturi as being part of Shoju's plan.  She may conclude that Shoju has had him killed because he knows too much - which would be hard to disprove, as Aramoro in fact did his best to kill him.  No one will believe Shoju when he says Aramoro wasn't acting on his orders, despite the truth of it.  "Believing what is true is only sensible," says Shoju himself, but believing a Scorpion in a dangerous situation many would say is not.  Toturi himself needs to enter into this, and quickly, if Shoju's not going to take the fall for it, I think. 

 

Honestly, if she somehow got wind of it, I could see Hotaru jumping on Team Shoju Did It, as a way to potentially remove Kachiko from blame.  I could see that being the thing that averts the Crane civil war, even - Hotaru, Kuwanan, and Kakita Yoshi all coming together against Shoju and the Scorpion.  

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Posted (edited)

Indeed. 

Regardless, her personal response is what matters. Between the status of (acting) emerald championship and control of the Dragon Clan forces, she's currently one of only two people in a position to compel Shoju to do anything. 

There's also the very, very nasty possibility she's going to look at Shoju and hear the words "my friend and peer" in the back of her head. Because if the makes that accusation, even hypothetically, and Yoshi and Kuwanan hear of it...

Seppun Ishikawa is the other, and he knows Toturi is alive - and that the assassination was clan-ordered, not the work of mercenaries.

With Hitomi back in the capital, we can assume Sotorii is in the wind - Kuwanan and Hitomi both 'lost' him so heaven knows where he'll turn up again....

11 hours ago, Doji Hyōkin said:

What does Miya Satoshi say?

For maximum impact, only the truth, but selectively - that Kachiko was dealing with the body, that he wasn't present for the death, that he was told of the manner of the Emperor's sudden death by Kachiko and that he acted to avoid panic or scandal, and she didn't at the time mention the edict.

Added to the fact that Yoshi knows Kachiko has ALSO pulled a vanishing act and the woman in court is a body double, and that looks extra suspicious - especially since no-one would believe Shoju never told his wife about the edict. 

Ultimately it depends what he wants; the full truth will comprehensively destroy Sotorii as a possible emperor, but the perception of a coup will potentially cause a civil war that could destroy the dynasty.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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18 hours ago, RafaelNN said:

I did consider the conclusion at the end a jump in logic by Chiari. Specially given how throughout the rest of the story they have emphasized how careful she is about making and voicing conclusions. I was expecting a replay along the lines of "the emperor was assassinated and the scorpion are covering up" or "covering up something" only, maybe a "taking advantage of the situation placing agents everywhere". The "shoju killed the emperor" was a very "un-Chiari" like response to me

The thing is if Shoju were going to have the Emperor killed it really doesn't really make sense for him to go to the extra effort of using the Emperor's sword to do it. He could just have him poisoned in a way that would look like natural causes. And, as Toturi has thought to himself, it doesn't make sense for Shoju to kill the Emperor before his edict naming Shoju regent is announced.

Really the whole situation is too sloppy to have been preplanned. But I suppose you could say there's enough anti-Scorpion bias to cause people to overlook some of the logic.

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28 minutes ago, shineyorkboy said:

The thing is if Shoju were going to have the Emperor killed it really doesn't really make sense for him to go to the extra effort of using the Emperor's sword to do it. He could just have him poisoned in a way that would look like natural causes. And, as Toturi has thought to himself, it doesn't make sense for Shoju to kill the Emperor before his edict naming Shoju regent is announced.

Really the whole situation is too sloppy to have been preplanned. But I suppose you could say there's enough anti-Scorpion bias to cause people to overlook some of the logic.

There is a lot of Scorpion are suspicious so everyone automatically assumes that if anything unusual/unfortunate happens they likely had a hand in it.  

That said the only way Shoju did it makes any sense is if you buy into the theory that the edict is a fake as otherwise given the timing of the death and the edict being worded as it was there was literally no reason for Shoju to have acted.  If he really wanted to usurp the throne all he needed to do was wait a few days for the Emperor to announce his retirement and move into his retirement with Sotorii.  After that Shoju has all the power until he, as regent, deems Daisetsu is ready for his gempukku.  And if needed he can always arrange for the Emperor and Sotorii to be disposed of once they are out of the public spotlight (and lets face it if he were killing them its as mentioned going to be poison and not by stabbing) and then "dispose" of Daisetsu and just stake his claim that as regent he is now next in line.

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Even Toturi, sitting with the Emperor and knowing Sotorii’s character, was taken aback by the decision to disinherit the Crown Prince. His murdering his father likewise borders on the unthinkable.

So, instead the easier pill to swallow is that Shoju killed Jodan, sent Sotorii into exile and set himself up as Regent to Daisetsu, his son’s best friend.

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19 minutes ago, Doji Hyōkin said:

Even Toturi, sitting with the Emperor and knowing Sotorii’s character, was taken aback by the decision to disinherit the Crown Prince. His murdering his father likewise borders on the unthinkable.

So, instead the easier pill to swallow is that Shoju killed Jodan, sent Sotorii into exile and set himself up as Regent to Daisetsu, his son’s best friend.

It is, but at the same time it means accepting that the Scorpion were able to forge a document with the Imperial Seal, written in the hand of Toturi, which was then authenticated by the imperial bureaucracy.  Not saying it couldn't be done, but it is a very serious hill to get over.

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For sure there's an anti-Scorpion bias among most samurai of Rokugan and it was stated already on the previous short story with Kitsuki Chiari that she usually makes assumptions before finding the evidence to support that. So, what evidence she has found so far?

  1. Kunshu, the Ancestral Sword of the Hantei was cursed and there was blood hidden on Shori's handle.
  2. All the heimin that worked on that part of the palace were killed.
  3. Sotorii, who was already an adult, was put aside in favor of his younger non-adult brother, Daisetsu, whose best friend is Shoju's son.
  4. The one person who wrote the Edict disappeared on the same night as the Emperor was killed and there were signs of fight and lots of blood at his house.
  5. The person who first found the Emperor dead was the Imperial Advisor, Bayushi Kachiko, who, by the way, is wife of the Regent.
  6. Daisetsu, suspiciously disappears on the night the Emperor is killed as well.

I mean, it's not hard to take a look at all these facts and assume that the Scorpion did it. Of course, it begs the question as why bother doing that in the first place if the Emperor planned on abdicating the very next day. And the answer could be to ensure that Jodan doesn't take back on his renouncement and is put on the Throne again by the other clans. I mean, if Chiari had had access to the Emperor's body and had performed an autopsy, then she would have find out that Shoju wasn't the one who murdered him (because she would notice the cut hasn't been left handed, the height of the attacker doesn't match Shoju's height and so on). She just didn't have all the evidence and she filled in the missing pieces of the puzzle with sensible stuff.

Again, Poor Communication Kills.

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The missing piece to really solidify Shoju's guilt would be a well-placed lie, and the best person to deliver that lie is Miya Satoshi.  All someone has to say is that Hantei Joden was considering bailing on the edict at the last minute. 

Then you have means... even though no one is to be armed in Joden's presence, the sword was right there....
Motive...Joden was going to cancel the edict or deliver regency to another...

and Opportunity...Kachiko, at least, was in Joden's presence at the right time.

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It's occurred to me that this story came out right after they previewed the new card for Sumiko, who is ominously holding a scroll case, presumably with the edict in it.  It rather drives home how much hinges on whether she, personally, still believes Shoju and the edict or not.  I think it's unlikely, but who knows, we may even see her destroy it.  I'm sure the thought will cross her mind, if nothing else.

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3 minutes ago, MirumotoKatsuro said:

It's occurred to me that this story came out right after they previewed the new card for Sumiko, who is ominously holding a scroll case, presumably with the edict in it.  It rather drives home how much hinges on whether she, personally, still believes Shoju and the edict or not.  I think it's unlikely, but who knows, we may even see her destroy it.  I'm sure the thought will cross her mind, if nothing else.

In fairness we did see that image first in Behind the Empty Throne and it was implied to be at the time the edict was being read in the first place.

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1 hour ago, KakitaKaori said:

All someone has to say is that Hantei Joden was considering bailing on the edict at the last minute. 

 

That’s an excellent point. Yoshi & Kachiko has no knowledge of the Edict beforehand, and Miya Satoshi might’ve if he knew what Doji Satsume was looking for in the Imperial Archives before he was whacked.

That would be a perfect lie for Satoshi to tell. It would even make any attempts short of confession from Sotorii seem like a frame job. 

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19 minutes ago, Diogo Salazar said:

By the way, where can I find this information that Miya Satoshi is a member of the Kholat and responsible for Satsume's death? Is it in one of the novels?

Satoshi was revealed as Kolat in one of the RPG modules (I'm not sure which one). I'm don't believe it's been established that Satoshi was personally responsible for Satsume's death, but it was established in this module https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/54/5d/545d40f0-3e88-406a-ab00-fecd7cea0875/l5r01dlc_adventurecompressed.pdf that Satsume was in contact with a member of the Kolat in the capital who he saw as a peer (which Satoshi would qualify for) and that they had him killed once they became convinced he couldn't be converted to their cause.

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23 minutes ago, Diogo Salazar said:

By the way, where can I find this information that Miya Satoshi is a member of the Kholat and responsible for Satsume's death? Is it in one of the novels?

Both come from RPG adventures. 

His loyalties are part of his character write up from the Winter's Embrace adventure.

The details of Satsume's death are part of the Palace of the Emerald Champion adventure and while they don't say Satoshi was explicitly involved you can uncover evidence that Satsume was in communication with someone he referred to as his peer in the capital that was sending him Kolat inspired propaganda and seemed to be actively trying to recruit him.  When that failed an assassin was ordered to murder Satsume.

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Also, Satsume had privately expressed to said peer that he had a low opinion of both princes, and was actively looking for alternatives. One of the last letters indicated he’d found a solution that worked within existing Imperial Law.  It’s a reasonable supposition that he found precedent for disinheritance & regency, so Hantei Jodan didn’t just jump there on his own. Satsume floated the idea, Sotorii’s worsening behaviour convinces him it’s necessary, and with Satsume dead, Jodan names his oldest friend and most loyal vassal as Regent. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/25/2020 at 2:17 PM, Doji Hyōkin said:

Even Toturi, sitting with the Emperor and knowing Sotorii’s character, was taken aback by the decision to disinherit the Crown Prince. His murdering his father likewise borders on the unthinkable.

So, instead the easier pill to swallow is that Shoju killed Jodan, sent Sotorii into exile and set himself up as Regent to Daisetsu, his son’s best friend.

I feel the need to reinforce this point. It is literally unthinkable that Sotorii would have murdered his own father. The Hantei are legally infallible, especially the Emperor himself (since if the edict and the regency are invalid, Sotorii currently is).

Combined with the bias against the Scorpion, and that while it makes little sense to murder him, the only person who appears to have gained from the death is Shoju at least helps to point the finger at him.

Also, as is reinforced repeatedly in the RPG module mentioned above, the correct result of any investigation is always what would best serve the Emperor and the Empire, not necessarily the truth. In the situation that Chiari is in, Shoju killing the Emperor would be better than any other alternative available to her, such as a patricide which could never even enter into consideration.

Edited by Pompz1

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3 hours ago, Pompz1 said:

Also, as is reinforced repeatedly in the RPG module mentioned above, the correct result of any investigation is always what would best serve the Emperor and the Empire, not necessarily the truth. In the situation that Chiari is in, Shoju killing the Emperor would be better than any other alternative available to her, such as a patricide which could never even enter into consideration.

Well there's always the option of "natural causes".

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