Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
blademaster81

Where is all the stock?

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Onagers are back in stock in the uk, at several stores. Some also have Assault Frigates.

Probably not in large numbers though.

If Onagers are restocked everywhere in the next few weeks, presumably that means a second batch of Onagers (and perhaps Starhawks?) has been released, which is great.

However, if other regions don't get more Onagers, it's presumably related to FFG/Asmodee's U.K. distributor. Perhaps the distributor didn't get their full allotment for the Wave 8 launch, or they withheld some, or they misplaced a pallet of Onagers in their warehouse and recently found it. Who knows?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/24/2020 at 10:52 AM, rasproteus said:

I don't like this take because it's an *artificial* demand being created by speculation.  We've had this discussion before, though.

It's unfair to ask FFG to, essentially, overproduce Arquitens and oversaturate the market in order to prevent something like this.  Arguably, FFG's "right move" would be to increase MSRP on the Arquitens to $40 and produce exactly the same amount as they have been.  FFG *chooses* to continue to sell them at $20 for their own reasons, not least of which is to encourage new players to join the game.

I think we can agree that economies do not operate in a moral vacuum.  People are perfectly justified in calling out Empire games for profiteering, regardless of whether it's "not illegal" or whether "it takes two to tango."

It’s not creating an artificial demand at all; it is simply more efficiently allocating the scarce good (arquitens packs) to those who want them most.  

Let’s say there are 100 people who want an arq, but there’s only 20 packs.  The alleged “scalpers” see that demand exceeds supply, so they buy those 20 packs and put them on sale for $40.  As it turns out, only 20 people are willing to pay that price, so they get the packs.  

Through this whole process, the demand has remained stable - 100 potential buyers - and so has the supply - 20 packs.  The so-called scalpers neither increased nor decreased either value.  What they (quite usefully) did was help ensure that the limited supply of arquitens packs ended up in the hands of those who wanted them most (ie those willing to pay a higher price).  That’s the best way to distribute scarce luxury goods that I can think of.  

“But what about the people who don’t get an arquitens?” you say... there were ALREADY people who weren’t going to get a pack, because there WEREN’T enough to go around in the first place.  80 people were going to be pack-less no matter what.  The “scalpers” haven’t changed that number at all, they just made the distribution more rational.  

So I don’t think it’s at all fair to morally condemn “scalpers” - they are not causing any actual harm.  The “harm” is that there are more peoplE who want arquitens than there are packs.  Middlemen purchasers don’t change those numbers at all.  The same number of people go pack-less either way.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, scipio83 said:

The “harm” is that there are less packs than people who want them.

FTFY😉 

I recently got one. The other is coming soon and I know where to get another one. I'm just waiting to figure out if I need 6 arquitens.

Price? 19,95€

Now I'm thinking of becoming a scalper as it seems they are heroes now.

Edited by ovinomanc3r

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, scipio83 said:

It’s not creating an artificial demand at all; it is simply more efficiently allocating the scarce good (arquitens packs) to those who want them most.  

Let’s say there are 100 people who want an arq, but there’s only 20 packs.  The alleged “scalpers” see that demand exceeds supply, so they buy those 20 packs and put them on sale for $40.  As it turns out, only 20 people are willing to pay that price, so they get the packs.  

Through this whole process, the demand has remained stable - 100 potential buyers - and so has the supply - 20 packs.  The so-called scalpers neither increased nor decreased either value.  What they (quite usefully) did was help ensure that the limited supply of arquitens packs ended up in the hands of those who wanted them most (ie those willing to pay a higher price).  That’s the best way to distribute scarce luxury goods that I can think of.  

“But what about the people who don’t get an arquitens?” you say... there were ALREADY people who weren’t going to get a pack, because there WEREN’T enough to go around in the first place.  80 people were going to be pack-less no matter what.  The “scalpers” haven’t changed that number at all, they just made the distribution more rational.  

So I don’t think it’s at all fair to morally condemn “scalpers” - they are not causing any actual harm.  The “harm” is that there are more peoplE who want arquitens than there are packs.  Middlemen purchasers don’t change those numbers at all.  The same number of people go pack-less either way.  

Or the scalpers, and yes they are scalpers, can just let those 20 people buy them at market price and not try to make a buck off of off other people who just want to get a piece to there game.  And at this point your lucky to find an arquitens for less than 80-100, from my few looks at eBay recently.

 

If you go to a baseball game and a guy at the door is selling tickets at a higher price than the box office because the game is sold out, we call them scalpers.  Taking advantage of the low supply vs demand to make a profit.  This is the exact same situation.  

Its not illegal, I'm not sure I would call it immoral.  It is what it is.  It's just kind of a jerk move to try to make that much of the supply issue.

My advise to people is wait. It's not worth the price.  If I had a spare I'd sell it to a friend at market price.  Reprints are coming, we just have no idea when.  Hopefully FFG realizes this is probably the most demanded expansion and prints 3 times what there all powerful statistics say they should.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We know that FFG has had the new card designs (for post-Clone Wars) since at least March when they teased the Commanders. They've almost certainly been working on the redesign for a while longer. So it would make some sense if they'd stop making reprints for a while until they're happy with the redesign and can release reprints in the new style (cards, points, packaging etc.). If so, I imagine they'd want to clear out most of the old stock before releasing the new (to avoid confusion, and having two of the same products on shelves). Combine that with a global pandemic disrupting every step in the process, it isn't that surprising if there is low Armada stock for a while.

In terms of the other FFG miniatures games, X-Wing has been a bit slow lately (no new ships released since January), but Legion has had a steady stream of product releases (although Legion ones are probably easier to produce, being unassembled and unpainted).

Plus the Clone Wars Armada stuff is the biggest Armada release wave since Wave 1; two different Core Sets, plus two squadron packs, plus the other stuff. Sure there is some duplication with the small ships, but that is still a lot of product. I imagine they've had a lot of their mini production capability dedicated to getting that done (and the first wave of expansions - again, more Armada ships than we've had in any wave since Wave 2).

Between all the new stuff, the change in style and the global pandemic, it is understandable that they may not be prioritising reprints at the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rune Taq said:

Or the scalpers, and yes they are scalpers, can just let those 20 people buy them at market price and not try to make a buck off of off other people who just want to get a piece to there game.  And at this point your lucky to find an arquitens for less than 80-100, from my few looks at eBay recently.

 

If you go to a baseball game and a guy at the door is selling tickets at a higher price than the box office because the game is sold out, we call them scalpers.  Taking advantage of the low supply vs demand to make a profit.  This is the exact same situation.  

Its not illegal, I'm not sure I would call it immoral.  It is what it is.  It's just kind of a jerk move to try to make that much of the supply issue.

My advise to people is wait. It's not worth the price.  If I had a spare I'd sell it to a friend at market price.  Reprints are coming, we just have no idea when.  Hopefully FFG realizes this is probably the most demanded expansion and prints 3 times what there all powerful statistics say they should.

In the absence of “scalpers,” the same number of people end up without arq packs. Take my scenario above: there’s 20 packs and 100 buyers.  What method would YOU propose for deciding who gets those 20 packs and who doesn’t?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, scipio83 said:

In the absence of “scalpers,” the same number of people end up without arq packs. Take my scenario above: there’s 20 packs and 100 buyers.  What method would YOU propose for deciding who gets those 20 packs and who doesn’t?

Whoever buy them... Duh😅

Edited by ovinomanc3r

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, scipio83 said:

In the absence of “scalpers,” the same number of people end up without arq packs. Take my scenario above: there’s 20 packs and 100 buyers.  What method would YOU propose for deciding who gets those 20 packs and who doesn’t?

I think you are conflating the supply and demand part of economics, which nobody has a problem with, with market abuse and profiteering, which gives the market a bad name.  The profiteers add no value to the process, and are parasitic upon it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, flatpackhamster said:

I think you are conflating the supply and demand part of economics, which nobody has a problem with, with market abuse and profiteering, which gives the market a bad name.  The profiteers add no value to the process, and are parasitic upon it.

They DO add value - they help ensure that the people who want the product the most are the ones that get it.  
 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point, though.  Can you explain to me who, exactly is harmed by “scalpers,” and what exactly the harm is?  I think we may be talking past each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Yeah, I just nabbed Home One on the way home from work yesterday as a bit of "I wanna feel like I am at Gencon rather than what's going on this year instead" wish fulfillment.  I had never got around to buying it before now, and as I can't find a copy anywhere else, it was time to support a (kind of) local business.  What I REALLY wanted was the Profundity, but I am still searching.....

 

I tell you what, I'm glad I got at least the one Arquitens and one MC30 when they first came out, because holy crap, the prices on the market right now are idiotic!

 

Edited by AegisGrimm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, scipio83 said:

They DO add value - they help ensure that the people who want the product the most are the ones that get it.  
 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point, though.  Can you explain to me who, exactly is harmed by “scalpers,” and what exactly the harm is?  I think we may be talking past each other.

Hayek defined a 'free market' as one with low barriers to entry, not one where anyone could do anything.  Markets start out with low barriers to entry and those barriers then rise over time.  Keeping the barriers low keeps prices low and helps consumers.

Scalpers - profiteers - raise barriers to entry for the game.  They increase the cost of playing.  That's an active hindrance.  Fewer people will play because they'll look at the prices and go "I'm not paying THAT for one plastic spaceship". 

It would not be beyond reason to suggest that profiteering actively reduces the pool of players and affects FFG's ability to sell future products.

 

 

I don't think we are talking past each other.  I think we have different moral systems.  I don't mean that to be an insult, it isn't.  I just think that our moral frameworks are structured differently due to the underlying brain wiring.  I ran a business for 17 years.   I felt shame when I didn't complete a job properly, and shame when I failed to call someone back quickly enough.  I reduced my rates for people who were very hard-up.  I set up computer systems for free for local charities. .  It's because I am conscientious and agreeable.   I wasn't well suited to getting rich, and I didn't.  If you want a good trader or handyman or plumber, find someone who's agreeable and conscientious, because they'll work over the odds to do a good job, and they won't fleece you.

For me, one of the most shamefuls act I could think of when running a business would be to buy all of something at £20 and sell it for £40.  I couldn't sleep at night - unless the person I was selling to was an absolute turd burger who had treated me very badly, in which case I would feel that they deserved to lose money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, scipio83 said:

They DO add value - they help ensure that the people who want the product the most are the ones that get it.  
 

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point, though.  Can you explain to me who, exactly is harmed by “scalpers,” and what exactly the harm is?  I think we may be talking past each other.

In the scenario that you put out there is not what I would call harm (but harm here may be difficult to describe as it is different for each) they are however not adding anything to the commuinity, but where scalpers harm the community is when they buy up all the stock to sell at an increased price and use that to artificially adjust the price. Using your example of 20 items for sale, and 100 people wanting it, but now we will say that there are 120 items for sale but still the same 100 who want it. The scalpers buy up all 120, then list only 20 for sale at X-times the cost. So here they are harming the community as there should be enough product for all who want it, at the price the company set but to make more they (the scalpers) are making more difficult and expensive to get into the game, this in turn has fewer people get into the game so the overall health of the game is less, and makes it more likely the game will fail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, scipio83 said:

In the absence of “scalpers,” the same number of people end up without arq packs. Take my scenario above: there’s 20 packs and 100 buyers.  What method would YOU propose for deciding who gets those 20 packs and who doesn’t?

Who ever buys them first.  Why do they Have to be over priced.  There is no need for you or me or a store or eBay or anyone to decide who gets them.  I find the ship first, I order it, I get it.  Doesn't need to be over priced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, scipio83 said:

They DO add value - they help ensure that the people who want the product  are able to pay the most are the ones that get it. 

They are not the same thing; the price is fixed, but disposable income varies.

All scalpers do is shut a portion of the consumer base out of the market, including in scenarios where supply could otherwise meet demand.

As mentioned above, sometimes that can even hurt growth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Profundity, Chimaera, Hammerheads, Arquitens, MC30....its easier to get a Super Star Destroyer than any of these expansions.  I understand the need to make "new" material, but maybe have those Chinese factories making existing material, instead.  It hurts the brand to have half the product impossible to get, just like with Legion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, AegisGrimm said:

Profundity, Chimaera, Hammerheads, Arquitens, MC30....its easier to get a Super Star Destroyer than any of these expansions.  I understand the need to make "new" material, but maybe have those Chinese factories making existing material, instead.  It hurts the brand to have half the product impossible to get, just like with Legion.

I 100% agree and have been saying the same thing.

However... some have speculated that the reason why there's been an Armada product shortage for the past 8+ months is because FFG knew that the upgrade cards were being changed for the Clone Wars expansions, so they didn't think it was worthwhile to reprint the GCW ship expansions with the old cards. Perhaps FFG thought that the GenCon reveal that the ship and upgrade cards were being re-sized would dissuade Armada players from buying any of the existing Armada ship expansions while waiting for the Clone Wars launch, causing Armada sales to fall off a cliff and the reprinted expansions to sit on the shelf and never be sold.

I don't know if that's how Armada players would've reacted or not -- we'll never know, because there aren't many Armada products available to buy.

It would be welcome if FFG announced that there's a wave of updated Armada expansions on the way, which will contain the updated and resized ship and upgrade cards, and they will arrive before December. But I doubt that will happen -- presumably FFG would've announced that during the GenCon Livestreams if that were happening.

The question is: If not now, when? When will the GCW ship expansions be reprinted? And will they contain the updated and resized cards?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Revan Reborn said:

The question is: If not now, when? When will the GCW ship expansions be reprinted? And will they contain the updated and resized cards?

It would make a ton of sense if they were planning to do this, and if they'll include the resized (updated) cards, etc. I bet they'll also take the opportunity to update the packaging as well.

Basically, seeing everything we've seen this week suggests just how much they've probably been working on Armada for quite some time to design not just Clone Wars content (and we've seen at least two prospective waves of that) but also re-designing cards, and probably more (packaging as I noted) for al the older stuff. Then add the time required for production...

My bet - *if* the world gets back to normal and production (in China) goes back to full-bore, around next winter/spring (I mean 2021-22) we'll see tons of everything finally appear again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Revan Reborn said:

I 100% agree and have been saying the same thing.

However... some have speculated that the reason why there's been an Armada product shortage for the past 8+ months is because FFG knew that the upgrade cards were being changed for the Clone Wars expansions, so they didn't think it was worthwhile to reprint the GCW ship expansions with the old cards. Perhaps FFG thought that the GenCon reveal that the ship and upgrade cards were being re-sized would dissuade Armada players from buying any of the existing Armada ship expansions while waiting for the Clone Wars launch, causing Armada sales to fall off a cliff and the reprinted expansions to sit on the shelf and never be sold.

I don't know if that's how Armada players would've reacted or not -- we'll never know, because there aren't many Armada products available to buy.

It would be welcome if FFG announced that there's a wave of updated Armada expansions on the way, which will contain the updated and resized ship and upgrade cards, and they will arrive before December. But I doubt that will happen -- presumably FFG would've announced that during the GenCon Livestreams if that were happening.

The question is: If not now, when? When will the GCW ship expansions be reprinted? And will they contain the updated and resized cards?

The only problem with that theory (and it's a valid theory) is that FFG is making absolutely NO sales at present of any of those expansions (and you can probably add Home One and the standard Star Destroyer to the list of AWOL ships, even from the FFG store).  And even if they are going to be reprinted with updated cards after the first Clone Wars stuff, that means no purchases or playing of existing Armada product until what, next Spring or summer?

I'm obviously going to buy the Card Expansion when it comes out (and won't that be a fun fight to find stock of, as nearly every player competes for the same release), but I'd still like to do stuff in the meantime with the Armada ships I don't have, even if it means referring to Errata.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AegisGrimm said:

The only problem with that theory (and it's a valid theory) is that FFG is making absolutely NO sales at present of any of those expansions (and you can probably add Home One and the standard Star Destroyer to the list of AWOL ships, even from the FFG store).  And even if they are going to be reprinted with updated cards after the first Clone Wars stuff, that means no purchases or playing of existing Armada product until what, next Spring or summer?

I'm obviously going to buy the Card Expansion when it comes out (and won't that be a fun fight to find stock of, as nearly every player competes for the same release), but I'd still like to do stuff in the meantime with the Armada ships I don't have, even if it means referring to Errata.

If it's true that they chose not to reprint any GCW ship expansions until the Clone Wars Armada expansions were revealed or released, I suspect it was Asmodee's decision, not FFG's. FFG cares about their games, whereas Asmodee, as the owner of FFG and numerous other board game developers under their umbrella, cares more about their bottom line. There's no disputing that Armada is the least popular of the 3 remaining Star Wars miniatures games produced by FFG, so Asmodee probably decided it was acceptable to forsake Armada sales for the majority of 2020 because Legion and X-Wing sales would compensate for that lost revenue, and the release of Clone Wars Armada at the end of 2020 would make up for it.

I don't agree with it. I think the lack of Armada stock hurts the game and the community. But it wouldn't surprise me if Asmodee doesn't care about the game or the community; all they care about is the huge Clone Wars Armada payday at the end of 2020.

After that, assuming that Clone Wars Armada will be a major success, Asmodee might be willing to ramp up production on all Armada products and release GCW expansions with the updated and resized cards.

I think it will depend on the Wave schedule for Clone Wars Armada in 2021. FFG/Asmodee said months ago that Wave 2 of CWA would follow soon after Wave 1. We know that the Venator, Republic Pelta, Providence, and Recusant are scheduled for release in Q1 2021, but it's unclear if they are Wave 1 or Wave 2, because FFG hasn't referred to the Clone Wars Starters, Squadron Packs, Upgrade Card Collection, and Dials Pack as Wave 1.

When Star Wars Armada was originally released, only the Core set was released on March 27, 2015, whereas the rest of the Wave 1 expansions weren't released until May 15, 2015. Based on that precedent, it's possible those 4 Clone Wars ships scheduled for Q`1 2021 could be classified as Wave 1. We don't know. But if they are Wave 1, supposedly that means that Wave 2 will be released soon after, possibly Q2 2021. Again, we don't know.

Regardless, if FFG/Asmodee releases Waves 2 and 3, possibly even 4, in 2021, there might not be any space in the busy production schedule to reprint any GCW expansions. And I think it's safe to assume that Clone Wars Armada expansions will be given production priority over GCW reprints. So, unfortunately, we have no way of knowing if and when Armada GCW expansions will be reprinted and released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/1/2020 at 2:10 AM, scipio83 said:

Let’s say there are 100 people who want an arq, but there’s only 20 packs.  The alleged “scalpers” see that demand exceeds supply, so they buy those 20 packs and put them on sale for $40.  As it turns out, only 20 people are willing to pay that price, so they get the packs.  

So I don’t think it’s at all fair to morally condemn “scalpers” - they are not causing any actual harm.  The “harm” is that there are more peoplE who want arquitens than there are packs.  Middlemen purchasers don’t change those numbers at all.  The same number of people go pack-less either way.  

There's a word for this: profiteering.

You might as well argue that buying food from a food pantry at half price and selling it for normal retail is simply allocating those resources more efficiently.  It misses the point: there's a reason that the goods are priced where they are, and it's not because the food pantry doesn't understand Econ 101.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With Clone Wars coming for Armada, there'll definitely be more interest from new players. Unfortunately, if FFG continues to support Armada the way they've been in the past, then I'm hesitant to invest in a game that has constant product scarcity and fewer product releases. Am i reading Armada community right? Over the years, I've read the same complaints throughout the years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, FastWalker said:

With Clone Wars coming for Armada, there'll definitely be more interest from new players. Unfortunately, if FFG continues to support Armada the way they've been in the past, then I'm hesitant to invest in a game that has constant product scarcity and fewer product releases. Am i reading Armada community right? Over the years, I've read the same complaints throughout the years.

Well your right but many of us see the Fewer product releases as a benefit. Even then some gaps have been way too long but I don't think you would get complaints if we only got new releases every 9 months or so.  Now the new factions are different, they need to push stuff out much quicker for those factions in the short term to get them up to speed.

Edited by Thrindal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...