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2 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

1) The Republic didn't have a military.

2) The clones fought on the side of the Republic.

3) Clones weren't mentally unstable.

4) All clones had the same progenitor.

5) No insane Jedi clones with oddly misspelled names.

1. I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to in this, I cant see how this can be a contradiction. The prequel trilogy demonstrated a Republic with military in the Clone Wars and a Republic without military prior to it, so whatever the EU writers said about the military or lack thereof, its probably fine.

2. Score 1 point for a legit contradiction. However, references to the clone wars from the early EU are vague and few in number, so fixing it only requires you to change a handful of sentences and never really comprimises any major plot points in those stories.

3. Two different types of cloning are at play: Kaminoan cloning and Spaarti cloning. Call it a retcon if you want, but it makes sense: different methodologies have different results. Calling this a contradiction is like saying that the existence of cell phones contradicts the existence of desktop computers.

4. Kaminoans used one progenitor because they thought Jango was the best and anyone else wouldnt be as good. Its not like they were unable to make clones of other people. More diverse clones became popular later on, probably to specialize in different tasks... but so what? It's just like 3: a different use and approach to cloning.

5. I'm not sure why the clone Joruus C'Baoth's backstory was never explored, but just because the movies didnt mention them doesnt mean he doesnt exist.

 

Yes, it's true that Lucas was not perfect when it comes to creating cohesive lore, but for the most part, the aparent contradictions were either eliminated with supplementary explanations or by making miniscule edits to the prior books, and they are few enough in number that they dont come up often. So long as you keep an open mind to these explanations, both sources can coexist.

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19 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Pretty much all of Obi-Wan's dialogue to Luke,  Chewie fighting side by side with Yoda but not feeling the need to back up famous Jedi war hero Obi-Wan, Luke hiding from Vader with Vader's relatives, under his real name, Leia remembering her mother, Darth actually being Vader's first name rather than his Sith title in A New Hope, it taking less than 20 years for the Jedi to be pretty much completely forgotten, Vader not being an active part of destroying the Jedi, Tattooinian hermit robes turing out to be the officoal Jedi uniform, Yoda not actually being Obi-Wan's teacher... There's probably lots more.

And I'm sure the dedicated fan has convoluted explanations for al of these (I know some of them), but taken together, that is a LOT of convolution to the point it is far more likely that these are just plot holes, especially because George Lucas was never a a very tidy kind of writer, and even the original trilogy itself is riddled with retcons and inconsistencies.

Obi Wans dialogue with Luke is not contradicted by Attack of the Clones. 

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21 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Kenobi calls Yoda "the Jedi Master who instructed me". he clearly does not mean it in the sense of "the Jedi Master who was not my actual instructor but tought Beginners Lightfencing to every student".

But it's exactly what Kenobi meant because Yoda was his teacher but not his master. When a youngling becomes a padawan he / she doesn't enter a teacher / student relationship with his / her master, but a mentor / pupil relationship. A padawan doesn't need to be taught the ways of a Jedi. Those were learned during his / her time at the Jedi academy and it's because he / she knows them that he / she is taken as a padawan by a full Jedi Knight or Jedi Master. What a Padawan needs is experience in the world on how to be a Jedi with someone to guide him / her.

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Did any writer every address Obi-Wan's comment about Owen's attitude towards Anakin.

"He thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."

He was already 'involved' the first time they met. 

Was this chalked up to another random Obi-Wan lie?

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9 minutes ago, Vorzakk said:

Did any writer every address Obi-Wan's comment about Owen's attitude towards Anakin.

"He thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."

He was already 'involved' the first time they met. 

Was this chalked up to another random Obi-Wan lie?

You can retroactively reach an opinion about something that happened before you were aware of it. We do it about history all the time, and even about people we know. He didn't say "Owen urged Anakin to stay here and not get involved." just that he thought that, with no chronological implication as to when exactly in the timeline.

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10 minutes ago, Vorzakk said:

Did any writer every address Obi-Wan's comment about Owen's attitude towards Anakin.

"He thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."

He was already 'involved' the first time they met. 

Was this chalked up to another random Obi-Wan lie?

I've never heard of it being addressed. I assume it's just another of Obi-Wan's lies. He and Yoda didn't want Luke to know that Vader was his dad so that it would be easier to use him as a weapon to kill Vader.

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1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

I've never heard of it being addressed. I assume it's just another of Obi-Wan's lies. He and Yoda didn't want Luke to know that Vader was his dad so that it would be easier to use him as a weapon to kill Vader.

Eh dont think it is a lie. Owen probably did think Anakin should have stayed there and not gotten involved. There is nothing about that opinion that says it is anything other than an opinion. 

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8 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Eh dont think it is a lie. Owen probably did think Anakin should have stayed there and not gotten involved. There is nothing about that opinion that says it is anything other than an opinion. 

Should have stayed where? The first time Owen meets Anakin he's already a Jedi, and back when kid Anakin "got involved" Owen wasn't with the Skywalkers and didn't have an opinion on the matter.

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8 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

Should have stayed where? The first time Owen meets Anakin he's already a Jedi, and back when kid Anakin "got involved" Owen wasn't with the Skywalkers and didn't have an opinion on the matter.

Think of it as a person observing how another person feels about a third person. Owen likely felt anakin should not have. Been involved because it gothim and hos wife killed. 

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47 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Think of it as a person observing how another person feels about a third person. Owen likely felt anakin should not have. Been involved because it gothim and hos wife killed. 

That's really, really reaching.

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19 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Except It was Obi wan telling Luke what Owen's veiw of anakin was. 

"No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter."

"That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."

"You fought in the Clone Wars?"

So yeah... Owen only met Anakin only once, and that was before the Clone Wars broke out. And I really don't think Owen knew Anakin even remotely well enough to be even aware of his ideals. 

And Anakin never actually got involved. What 12-year old Anakin did was definitely not getting involved in the Clone Wars. 

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1 minute ago, micheldebruyn said:

"No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter."

"That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved."

"You fought in the Clone Wars?"

So yeah... Owen only met Anakin only once, and that was before the Clone Wars broke out. And I really don't think Owen knew Anakin even remotely well enough to be even aware of his ideals. 

And Anakin never actually got involved. What 12-year old Anakin did was definitely not getting involved in the Clone Wars. 

I've never met certain people and I still have an opinion about their ideals and what they did.

Anakin did get involved in the Clone Wars. Not directly from the age of 12, but he left Tatooine, joined the Jedi, and got involved in the Clone Wars. Very easy for someone to say "He should never have left Tatooine, then we wouldn't be in this mess!"

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19 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I've never met certain people and I still have an opinion about their ideals and what they did.

Anakin did get involved in the Clone Wars. Not directly from the age of 12, but he left Tatooine, joined the Jedi, and got involved in the Clone Wars. Very easy for someone to say "He should never have left Tatooine, then we wouldn't be in this mess!"

Here's the thing... Owen doesn't know Anakin, and Obi-Wan really doesn't know Owen. They never met on film. 

Obi-Wan is painting Luke a picture of himself, Anakin, and Owen all knowing each other very well back in the day when they didn't.

Honestly, I can't think of any reason why someone would defend a reading of the text in which Obi-Wan does not come off as a manipulative liar.

I mean, even if every last thing you said is true, then he's still picking and choosing his words to paint Luke a picture of his family history that is not completely made up.

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Just now, micheldebruyn said:

Here's the thing... Owen doesn't know Anakin, and Obi-Wan really doesn't know Owen. They never met on film.

Who's to say they didn't meet off film?

And Anakin met Owen in AotC, not that having met someone is a prerequisite for having an opinion about their choices.

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54 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Well then it definitely wasn’t what Owen was expressing, was it?

Not sure your point. We are talking about Obiwan expressing what he percieved Owen's view was. 

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On 6/20/2020 at 12:48 PM, micheldebruyn said:

Here's the thing... Owen doesn't know Anakin, and Obi-Wan really doesn't know Owen. They never met on film. 

Obi-Wan is painting Luke a picture of himself, Anakin, and Owen all knowing each other very well back in the day when they didn't.

Honestly, I can't think of any reason why someone would defend a reading of the text in which Obi-Wan does not come off as a manipulative liar.

I mean, even if every last thing you said is true, then he's still picking and choosing his words to paint Luke a picture of his family history that is not completely made up.

Anakin could have revisited the homestead on Tatooine many times since he buried his mother there. Would make sense if he went back to her grave. Who's not to say they talked and developed some kind of relationship whatever that looks like?

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, CloudyLemonade92 said:

Anakin could have revisited the homestead on Tatooine many times since he buried his mother there. Would make sense if he went back to her grave. Who's not to say they talked and developed some kind of relationship whatever that looks like?

Only things that happen in the movies are relevant here, not stuff other writers later added to it, whether they make sense or not. Whose to say Owen wouldn't call the Empire if he knew crazy old Ben was actually wanted war criminal Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Edited by micheldebruyn

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