Jump to content

Recommended Posts

He really wasn't a powerful Hutt until 0 BBY, at which point Jiliac the Hutt died, leaving Jabba with control of the Kajidic. I suppose in the five years he had as a major crime lord, he just never had the time to move to a more prominent location. Especially when you control as much stuff as Jabba has, I imagine that moving locations takes a lot of time and effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would he need to move? He seems to be doing just fine from where he is.

Plus, it's easier to watch your back when you're in a remote area given the lack of traffic.

29 minutes ago, Yaccarus said:

He really wasn't a powerful Hutt until 0 BBY, at which point Jiliac the Hutt died, leaving Jabba with control of the Kajidic. I suppose in the five years he had as a major crime lord, he just never had the time to move to a more prominent location. Especially when you control as much stuff as Jabba has, I imagine that moving locations takes a lot of time and effort.

In the Clone Wars, he was quite significant and seemed to lead the Hutt council. At the very least, he was already a major crime lord if not more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Why would he need to move? He seems to be doing just fine from where he is.

Plus, it's easier to watch your back when you're in a remote area given the lack of traffic.

In the Clone Wars, he was quite significant and seemed to lead the Hutt council. At the very least, he was already a major crime lord if not more.

The Clone wars Animated show?

It may have changed much that was already established. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also Tatooine isn't as remote as Luke makes it out to be in Episode 4.  It is part of the Correllian (Smuggler's) Run  hyperspace route. That makes it a strong location for Jabba to work from

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, CloudyLemonade92 said:

The Clone wars Animated show?

It may have changed much that was already established. 

Yes, but it's the current Canon/Legends story (same as how the Thrawn novels take on the Clone Wars is no longer canon in either, though it was twisted and adapted to retcon it into relevance, though there are still discrepancies). And as to whether or not the old story was that he didn't gain prominence until 1 BBY, it certainly isn't now. I take particular issue with the statement that "he wasn't really a powerful Hutt until 0 BBY" as he was powerful, whether he was the *most* powerful or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

 

In the Clone Wars, he was quite significant and seemed to lead the Hutt council. At the very least, he was already a major crime lord if not more.

Case in point that 2008 The Clone Wars cannot be accepted as part of the Legends continuity. Filoni created contradictions with every chance he got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Yaccarus said:

Case in point that 2008 The Clone Wars cannot be accepted as part of the Legends continuity. Filoni created contradictions with every chance he got.

Do you know that the OP was looking particularly for information from Legends material a decade and a half ago? Otherwise that is entirely irrelevant to the situation at hand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Do you know that the OP was looking particularly for information from Legends material a decade and a half ago? Otherwise that is entirely irrelevant to the situation at hand.

The original Legends material provides a clear answer to his question in that Jabba only rose to power late in his life, and even then, he did not rule the criminal underworld, thus making it logical that he just never had the chance to move. The retconned version of Jabba always being the most powerful Hutt is what creates the problem in the first place. So yes, I made one off-topic sentence saying that 2008 Clone Wars shouldn't be part of legends, but I think that its worth pointing out that there's an obvious solution available in prior lore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Yes, but it's the current Canon/Legends story (same as how the Thrawn novels take on the Clone Wars is no longer canon in either, though it was twisted and adapted to retcon it into relevance, though there are still discrepancies). And as to whether or not the old story was that he didn't gain prominence until 1 BBY, it certainly isn't now.

Oh, no arguments there.

10 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I take particular issue with the statement that "he wasn't really a powerful Hutt until 0 BBY" as he was powerful, whether he was the *most* powerful or not.

He was likely going by the source material already established before the Clone Wars Animated show, the stuff thats been there since SW came out last century. Not the stuff that dropped in the last few years and contradicts much of that. He probably wasn't even aware of that. 

Before whatever happens in the Clone Wars, Jabba's uncle was the head of the Desilijic Kajidic (Clan), his name was Jilian Desilijic. He was killed by another Hutt called Durga Besadii, of the Besadii Kajidic for poisoning his father. The two clans were at logger-heads for years. After the death of his Uncle, Jabbba became the head of the Desilijic Clan and he became more prominent within the Hutt Ruling council before taking it over.

Edit - Its also unlike you to "take issue" with things :P At least from what I've seen.

Edit - Further, I'm more inclined to follow the Lore we have in the expansion books made that detail thoroughly the Hutts and their history, for use in this game, than an episode of a kids show. Just my opinion.

Edited by CloudyLemonade92

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, CloudyLemonade92 said:

Edit - Its also unlike you to "take issue" with things :P At least from what I've seen.

Depends on the thing and on the definition of "take issue." In this case it just means I disagree with that particular statement.
(unless you were being sarcastic, in which case nevermind)

47 minutes ago, CloudyLemonade92 said:

Before whatever happens in the Clone Wars, Jabba's uncle was the head of the Desilijic Kajidic (Clan), his name was Jilian Desilijic. He was killed by another Hutt called Durga Besadii, of the Besadii Kajidic for poisoning his father. The two clans were at logger-heads for years. After the death of his Uncle, Jabbba became the head of the Desilijic Clan and he became more prominent within the Hutt Ruling council before taking it over.

Edit - Further, I'm more inclined to follow the Lore we have in the expansion books made that detail thoroughly the Hutts and their history, for use in this game, than an episode of a kids show. Just my opinion.

I, unfortunately, have yet to read Lords of Nal Hutta. And likely won't get to for some time given the current situation. However, I do know Clone Wars quite well, especially the Shadow Collective episodes (important research for Mando-nerds :)). Jabba is portrayed throughout the show as very important on the Hutt Ruling Council, and this is about 20 years before the murder.
Because The Clone Wars is canon, I would defer to it for historical details as it is the primary timeline. I have no issue with someone else ruling it differently for their table or in their headcanon (the important canon), but just because it's a "kids' show" (which isn't even entirely true) its veracity and relevance should not be discounted, nor should its story. The story of something considered poor in execution can still be of quality, even if the final product was not. Just like, as much as I dislike the Sequel Trilogy's timeline, I wouldn't use the Thrawn Novels to answer questions about the time period after the Battle of Endor. Unless the person posing the question wants to know about Legends, that information would be irrelevant as it is wholly incompatible with the canon timeline. There can be some useful information in Legends sources (and I often mine them for information and inspiration), but when it is directly (or seemingly) contradicted by canon sources, canon would take precedence.
The best person to answer the question of relevance would be the OP, as it is his universe.

A good way to square this circle (though it has other details that are consequently screwed up) is to simply push back the date of the murder to the decade leading up to the Clone Wars.

 

To the OP's question, I've already thrown out my two cents on the topic, but I'll follow it up with another penny or two. Tatooine is lawless (allowing Hutts to fill the vacuum easily), and has the benefits of being simultaneously uninteresting, useless, and positioned near a major hyperspace lane. Like I mentioned earlier, from a strategic perspective, being in such a remote area is helpful when watching your back as it is much easier to keep track of comings, going, and potential threats. Plus, according to Legends, Jabba's been there for 500 years.

@yoink101, if I may turn the question back on you, why would Jabba live elsewhere? Why not Tatooine? And where do you think Jabba should live instead?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure that Jabba's Palace on Tatooine was more of his beach house than anything.  If I remember correctly, Tatooine is a good jump from Hutt Space. He could have spent most of his time there but it couldn't be the base of operations for the entire Clan. Jabba's Clan must have had HQ's in other spots around the galaxy, especially Nal Hutta. In RotJ, we see a whole of partying and other debauchery but not a whole lot of business going on. Just my opinion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I, unfortunately, have yet to read Lords of Nal Hutta. And likely won't get to for some time given the current situation. However, I do know Clone Wars quite well, especially the Shadow Collective episodes (important research for Mando-nerds :)). Jabba is portrayed throughout the show as very important on the Hutt Ruling Council, and this is about 20 years before the murder.

So I am finally getting around to watching Clone Wars (entire show now on Diz+) and I was unaware of any direct contradictions. This will be interesting to get into and think about. I do highly recommend Lords of Nal Hutta as it has fueled my sessions for the past year and a half. 

It has been my understanding that Jabba was always an important member in one of the most powerful Clans of all the Hutts. Sometime round the year 0 AB Jabba rises to the very top of all the Hutts. This is just in my head cannon and my players are going through these steps.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Yaccarus said:

Case in point that 2008 The Clone Wars cannot be accepted as part of the Legends continuity. Filoni created contradictions with every chance he got.

Attack Of The clones cannot be accepted as part of the Legends continuity. George Lucas created contradictions with every chance he got.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It makes sense to me. With Hyperspace and instantaneous (debatable) communication technology, the galaxy doesn't seem as big. There's no pressing need for him to HQ at a major outpost where there's enemies and imperials on all sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Attack Of The clones cannot be accepted as part of the Legends continuity. George Lucas created contradictions with every chance he got.

Alright, name 20 contradictions created by Attack of the Clones. There's how many... maybe 3? And even with those contradictions, the authors of the EU did a really good job of coming up with explanations to make everything fit, so older sources that viewed the Clone Wars a little differently could still ultimately coexist with AotC. Such is not the case with 2008 The Clone Wars, whose contradictions are so numerous and direct that either you have remove 2008 The Clone Wars from the Legends timeline, or you have to remove the entire Multimedia Project plus a bunch of other good stuff from the Legends timeline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

@yoink101, if I may turn the question back on you, why would Jabba live elsewhere? Why not Tatooine? And where do you think Jabba should live instead?

I guess, looking at a planet where “moisture farmer” and drinking in the only spaceport seem to be the major career choices, it seems odd to want to be there. Most sources seem to indicate that it has a population of 200,000, which defiantly makes it remote. But, you usually don’t see people in charge of multinational organizations live in remote areas which no one wants to go.

What’s he going to do with all of his money on Tatooine? Buy water? It’d probably be cheaper to have a ship haul a comet to the planet and drop a lake next his palace.

Tatooine makes sense to me as a Wild West hole in the wall type gang hideout. By the time shows, and even the prequels, talk about Jabba, he’s a major crime boss. Well, then put him on Nal Hutta where he can organize some crime.

Now it seems that Tatooine is retconned  to be at the center of major hyperspace routes. Why? It’s a dust bowl. Why aren’t there huge cities there? Major trade? The prequels build it up a little bit, but even then, they talk about how remote it is.

When it gets down to it, 17,000 credits is enough to save Han’s neck, so he probably doesn’t owe Jabba all that much money. If Jabba is after Han for so little, he can’t be that big of a deal. If his top bounty hunter gets taken out by a blind guy...

Edited by yoink101

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, yoink101 said:

I guess, looking at a planet where “moisture farmer” and drinking in the only spaceport seem to be the major career choices, it seems odd to want to be there. Most sources seem to indicate that it has a population of 200,000, which defiantly makes it remote. But, you usually don’t see people in charge of multinational organizations live in remote areas which no one wants to go.

What’s he going to do with all of his money on Tatooine? Buy water? It’d probably be cheaper to have a ship haul a comet to the planet and drop a lake next his palace.

Tatooine makes sense to me as a Wild West hole in the wall type gang hideout. By the time shows, and even the prequels, talk about Jabba, he’s a major crime boss. Well, then put him on Nal Hutta where he can organize some crime.

Now it seems that Tatooine is retconned  to be at the center of major hyperspace routes. Why? It’s a dust bowl. Why aren’t there huge cities there? Major trade? The prequels build it up a little bit, but even then, they talk about how remote it is.

With the sophisticated communications available, why would he need to be on Nal Hutta? The situation on earth is not really comparable to that of Star Wars. As far as what to do with his money, he'd spend it elsewhere if he needs to spend it at all, and he has plenty of "delivery boys" to ferry stuff to and fro as needed.

I think he can pull strings pretty comfortably from the security of his palace. He also would delegate authority most of the time. With a galaxy-spanning organization, he can't be everywhere at once anyway, and a single planet's crime network would be relatively insignificant.

And there aren't huge cities or major trade on Tatooine because it's a dust bowl. Legends and Canon, there were several attempts to settle Tatooine and make it profitable, all of which failed. As for being remote, Tatooine isn't directly on the Corellian run, but is nearby. It is also down towards the tail end of the Corellian run, and there is less interesting stuff there so traffic would be much lower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

With the sophisticated communications available, why would he need to be on Nal Hutta? The situation on earth is not really comparable to that of Star Wars. As far as what to do with his money, he'd spend it elsewhere if he needs to spend it at all, and he has plenty of "delivery boys" to ferry stuff to and fro as needed.

I think he can pull strings pretty comfortably from the security of his palace. He also would delegate authority most of the time. With a galaxy-spanning organization, he can't be everywhere at once anyway, and a single planet's crime network would be relatively insignificant.

And there aren't huge cities or major trade on Tatooine because it's a dust bowl. Legends and Canon, there were several attempts to settle Tatooine and make it profitable, all of which failed. As for being remote, Tatooine isn't directly on the Corellian run, but is nearby. It is also down towards the tail end of the Corellian run, and there is less interesting stuff there so traffic would be much lower.

I know that all of the information has been said, and that’s where Tatooine stands right now.

It still feels like a minor crime lord was turned into a major political power. At least, the feeling from the original trilogy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Yaccarus said:

Alright, name 20 contradictions created by Attack of the Clones. There's how many... maybe 3?

1) The Republic didn't have a military.

2) The clones fought on the side of the Republic.

3) Clones weren't mentally unstable.

4) All clones had the same progenitor.

5) No insane Jedi clones with oddly misspelled names.

6) Plus all the stuff in the Prequels that contradicts the original trilogy. 

7) EU writers being good at retcons doesn't change any of this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Can you give some examples of this?

Pretty much all of Obi-Wan's dialogue to Luke,  Chewie fighting side by side with Yoda but not feeling the need to back up famous Jedi war hero Obi-Wan, Luke hiding from Vader with Vader's relatives, under his real name, Leia remembering her mother, Darth actually being Vader's first name rather than his Sith title in A New Hope, it taking less than 20 years for the Jedi to be pretty much completely forgotten, Vader not being an active part of destroying the Jedi, Tattooinian hermit robes turing out to be the officoal Jedi uniform, Yoda not actually being Obi-Wan's teacher... There's probably lots more.

And I'm sure the dedicated fan has convoluted explanations for al of these (I know some of them), but taken together, that is a LOT of convolution to the point it is far more likely that these are just plot holes, especially because George Lucas was never a a very tidy kind of writer, and even the original trilogy itself is riddled with retcons and inconsistencies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, micheldebruyn said:

Pretty much all of Obi-Wan's dialogue to Luke,

From a... certain point of view.

1 hour ago, micheldebruyn said:

Darth actually being Vader's first name rather than his Sith title in A New Hope, Vader not being an active part of destroying the Jedi, Yoda not actually being Obi-Wan's teacher...

Well I feel I have to address these. Who says Darth has to be Vader's first name? There's no contradiction there as far as I see, in fact, it makes more sense for it to be a title than a name. Vader was an active part of destroying the Jedi. Yoda sorta was Obi-Wan's teacher. Not his direct master, but still his teacher.

I've got opinions and justifications for the others, but I'd rather not completely derail the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

From a... certain point of view.

Well I feel I have to address these. Who says Darth has to be Vader's first name? There's no contradiction there as far as I see, in fact, it makes more sense for it to be a title than a name. Vader was an active part of destroying the Jedi. Yoda sorta was Obi-Wan's teacher. Not his direct master, but still his teacher.

I've got opinions and justifications for the others, but I'd rather not completely derail the thread.

In A New Hope, what does Kenobi say when he runs into Vader? Hey Anakin? Hello Lord Vader? No, he adresses him several times as simply Darth, the only time in the entire 9 movies that a Sith Lord is adressed as Darth. Because back in 1977, Darth was just Vader's first name instead of his title.

"You can't win, Darth. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." 

Vader was not really a part of destroying the Jedi. I mean, he killed some kids, sure, but that's a far cry from "Vader hunted down and destroyed the Jedi". That's not even point of view stuff. [Some EU writers did later have him kill some actual Jedi, but that is not part of the prequels and therefore doesn't count as a defense of the prequels.]

Kenobi calls Yoda "the Jedi Master who instructed me". he clearly does not mean it in the sense of "the Jedi Master who was not my actual instructor but tought Beginners Lightfencing to every student".

 

Like I said, that is a LOT of convolution to the point it is far more likely that these are just plot holes.

Edited by micheldebruyn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...