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I had a brainstorm, and I wanted to run it by you wonderful people and get your take on it:

This would be up to GM discretion as to which mods qualify, but it would generally be Skill and Innate Talent mods. Important to note that this doesn't extend to the base modifiers of an attachment.
Instead of a Mechanics check and credits, the character can spend 5*X (where X is the total number of mods installed after installing this mod) XP to have the mod "installed" in lieu of credits and a Mechanics check. For balance reasons (with narrative justification), this would still count towards mods for credits and Mechanics check.
First mod would be 5 XP, second 10, etc.

Now the narrative justification:
It takes some experience to know best how to take advantage of the modifications you've made, so with practice you are able to unlock the attachment's potential. But with further work, you must be careful not to disturb the fine balance you have instituted or change something that you have gotten used to. This makes it much more difficult and potentially more expensive, as you have to look for particular parts and more finely produced components, whether cutting down on weight or figuring out how to properly balance or attune a piece of technology. If you've already modified the weapon without this technique in mind, now you've got to learn that technique with the added difficulty of the stuff you changed that could throw off balance or change weight in an undesirable way.

Due to this "practice" the benefit doesn't apply to any other characters unless they also spend the XP (or in the case of an NPC, narratively "practice").

I doubt this is something I'd actually use, but I thought it was interesting and thought some of you might find it interesting. I think this is an interesting way of personalizing a weapon and truly being an "expert" with it.

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Honestly, I wouldn't do it. Mechanics has limited use as is and it takes away yet another possibility that an Intelligence character can shine. 

I understand your reasoning, but I wouldn't use it.

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23 minutes ago, Rimsen said:

Honestly, I wouldn't do it. Mechanics has limited use as is and it takes away yet another possibility that an Intelligence character can shine.

Never been a problem for my games, so that isn't even something on my radar. Good to keep in mind though. It also only applies to some mods, not all or even most.

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To me it just sounds awful.

The characters already spent amounts of XP to get good at the mechanics business and are now additionally punished with more XP to be spend? Naa, not for me.

It might be that your players get tons of XP so they will not mind. In my current group we are playing once per month earning 5 to 10 (sometimes even 15!) XP per session. If we would use your variation there would be either no character progression at all or no modding - probably the latter.

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30 minutes ago, dreenan said:

To me it just sounds awful.

The characters already spent amounts of XP to get good at the mechanics business and are now additionally punished with more XP to be spend? Naa, not for me.

It might be that your players get tons of XP so they will not mind. In my current group we are playing once per month earning 5 to 10 (sometimes even 15!) XP per session. If we would use your variation there would be either no character progression at all or no modding - probably the latter.

Fair enough. For us, it's 15-20 XP per session, on no particular schedule. Like I said, it was just a thought.

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I homebrewed some modding rules only because of the infamous page 151.. I'm AFD (Away From Document) at the mo but it has incremental costs depending on the rarity and benefits of the mod....  PCs only can still attempt to install themselves if they wish up to rarity 5, Technician Career only 6+ and still risk a failure OR spend the cash and have it successfully installed by a professional Technician NPC for anything 3+ rarity.

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On 6/14/2020 at 12:38 PM, DidntFallAsleep66 said:

I homebrewed some modding rules only because of the infamous page 151.. I'm AFD (Away From Document) at the mo but it has incremental costs depending on the rarity and benefits of the mod....  PCs only can still attempt to install themselves if they wish up to rarity 5, Technician Career only 6+ and still risk a failure OR spend the cash and have it successfully installed by a professional Technician NPC for anything 3+ rarity.

I think this is very interesting and have a couple of questions.  If the players choose the Technician NPC is the NPC automatically successful?  Some add-ons have 3-4-5 mod levels.  Is the NPC an auto success or how do you handle it if the NPC fails?  

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On 6/13/2020 at 10:45 AM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I had a brainstorm, and I wanted to run it by you wonderful people and get your take on it:

This would be up to GM discretion as to which mods qualify, but it would generally be Skill and Innate Talent mods. Important to note that this doesn't extend to the base modifiers of an attachment.
Instead of a Mechanics check and credits, the character can spend 5*X (where X is the total number of mods installed after installing this mod) XP to have the mod "installed" in lieu of credits and a Mechanics check. For balance reasons (with narrative justification), this would still count towards mods for credits and Mechanics check.
First mod would be 5 XP, second 10, etc.

Now the narrative justification:
It takes some experience to know best how to take advantage of the modifications you've made, so with practice you are able to unlock the attachment's potential. But with further work, you must be careful not to disturb the fine balance you have instituted or change something that you have gotten used to. This makes it much more difficult and potentially more expensive, as you have to look for particular parts and more finely produced components, whether cutting down on weight or figuring out how to properly balance or attune a piece of technology. If you've already modified the weapon without this technique in mind, now you've got to learn that technique with the added difficulty of the stuff you changed that could throw off balance or change weight in an undesirable way.

Due to this "practice" the benefit doesn't apply to any other characters unless they also spend the XP (or in the case of an NPC, narratively "practice").

I doubt this is something I'd actually use, but I thought it was interesting and thought some of you might find it interesting. I think this is an interesting way of personalizing a weapon and truly being an "expert" with it.

I really like it. I think it is a flavorful way to let characters personalize their own stuff without having to invest xp into talents and skills that don’t fit their concept. Getting that weapon destroyed would be all the more devastating though.

The cynic in me, however, worries about a campaign of mixed F&D and other characters. Lightsabers, which I know are incredible weapons, could become an xp sink for characters who already have too many things to spend xp on.

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5 hours ago, RickInVA said:

I think this is very interesting and have a couple of questions.  If the players choose the Technician NPC is the NPC automatically successful?  Some add-ons have 3-4-5 mod levels.  Is the NPC an auto success or how do you handle it if the NPC fails?  

I always throw the dice. I have the adversary cards and I usually let the players go to a shadowport mechanic, or other engineer NPC which makes the check instead of them. Though I keep the profit for the NPC if he has advantages :D I do the same for Knowledge and other checks if they turn to an Infochant or Black Marketeer. It gives the players options, to buy services they don't know (these NPCs usually have YGG/YYG) but rewards those PCs who invest in these skills, because general NPCs probably won't be able to mod more than 1-2 times.

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7 hours ago, yoink101 said:

The cynic in me, however, worries about a campaign of mixed F&D and other characters. Lightsabers, which I know are incredible weapons, could become an xp sink for characters who already have too many things to spend xp on.

That is definitely a drawback. I admit I didn't really calculate FaD into the equation, but now that you mention it, it would be even more thematically appropriate for modding crystals. It could applying to all mods, not just Innate Talent and Skill mods.

7 hours ago, yoink101 said:

I really like it. I think it is a flavorful way to let characters personalize their own stuff without having to invest xp into talents and skills that don’t fit their concept. Getting that weapon destroyed would be all the more devastating though.

Yes, that was part of the point. Make it so it's "their baby" in more ways than just that they've spent some credits on it. Make them feel that they've really invested time and effort into it. I don't destroy/confiscate weapons very often (just confiscated one recently though), so it wouldn't likely be a problem for my group, but I can see how that might end up being an issue for others.

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Rather than have the player spend their precious XP, I'd rather pull out the stops to give them the upgrades and boosts they need to get the job done correctly.  If the PC has worked hard to get a mod (and I usually make it part of the story rather than a shopping event) I'll try to make sure they have a good lab, the right tools, etc.  I think in the end it's far more satisfying to have "earned" the mod through work and skill rather than just XP.  In fact, I think I'd rather just give them the mod than expect them to spend their hard-earned XP.

 

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@P-47 Thunderbolt, so what is the "why" behind the idea? What is the reason or need? Is it basically just to give Players a "sure thing" way to get a greatly desired mod installed?

Like, I get that sentiment.

I've been burned more than once by modding checks, i.e. those rolls where you get piles and piles of Advantage but no net success on a YYGGPP roll... Super-infuriating. But I think the better way to do it, if they/you want a sure thing, is to just make them pay an NPC to do it (or go on a "quest" for the NPC so that they'll do it). That's what I've given players as an option to guaranteed get it done.

Or as @whafrog mentioned, give them options and let them do the leg work to really stack the check. Again it can incorporate adventuring hooks to get that set up, whatever.

I've given players options like:

1: Take your time? +1 Boost

2: Buy or find a schematic? +1 Boost

3: Access to Gear - like, Weapon Maintenance Kit (X), Verpine Bond Gauntlets, etc.? Those total +3 Boosts!!

4: Access to a high quality shop or facility? Upgrade the check. Maybe twice, even?

5: A Skilled Assist from an NPC? Whatever you want it to be... a 5 Intellect Droid? A 4 Mechanics ugnaught? Major mechanical boosts there. And good opportunities to create roleplay and narrative and adventure hooks too. "Sure I'll help you. What'll you do for me?"

Basically, I just think there's always better options to give players a sure thing over asking them to spend XP to get it.

But having it as an option? I mean, why not, I guess? I guess it could be good for a character that just... doesn't have anything else they want to spend XP on?

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4 minutes ago, emsquared said:

@P-47 Thunderbolt, so what is the "why" behind the idea? What is the reason or need? Is it basically just to give Players a "sure thing" way to get a greatly desired mod installed?

Not exactly, the "why" was really just that something made me think of it and I thought it was an interesting idea. If I had to give a "why," I think it would be partly a trade-off for the guaranteed mod, but it would also partly be the narrative of practicing with the weapon and having special abilities with it that only you can use.

But it is optional, with the intention that a player might still choose to spend the credits and make the Mechanics check.

Another point of justification is that it is intended to apply to Innate Talent and Skill mods, which would normally be purchased with XP anyway. Although it is pinned to a certain piece of gear in this case, you get the benefit of it being available to you out of the tree and generally only for 5-10 XP.

 

Lots of good points about making modding attachments easier/more achievable.

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On 6/25/2020 at 3:33 AM, RickInVA said:

I think this is very interesting and have a couple of questions.  If the players choose the Technician NPC is the NPC automatically successful?  Some add-ons have 3-4-5 mod levels.  Is the NPC an auto success or how do you handle it if the NPC fails?  

The NPC automatically succeeds just like the original R&W rules as if buying the mod...

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