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Schmoozies

New Fiction - Heart of the Mountain

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17 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

I gotta say, the new continuity is doing a MUCH better job of laying out the insecurity that was supposed to be in the Mantis' social wheelhous

From what little I know of the old lore, my impression was that Yoritomo's intentions then were more "we will prove that we are worthy of Great Clan status," whereas now, I agree, it seems like a much more insecure, entitled "we should be a Great Clan, but we've been jobbed."  Does that seem accurate?  Frankly, I don't find these Mantis terribly likable.  They want a place in a society of honor and chivalry, when they seem not to value those ideals much, or want to use them to earn said place.  In the words of Worf, "We cannot regain our honor by acting dishonorably."  Their piratical culture seems to me as foreign to Rokugan high society as anything the Unicorn have encountered.

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Well, on the previous timeline me and my friends agreed that the Spider had more right to be a Great Clan than the Mantis. Unless somehow Yoritomo can show that the Tenth Kami somehow gave them patronage, yeah, the Mantis should be a great clan.

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9 hours ago, MirumotoKatsuro said:

From what little I know of the old lore, my impression was that Yoritomo's intentions then were more "we will prove that we are worthy of Great Clan status," whereas now, I agree, it seems like a much more insecure, entitled "we should be a Great Clan, but we've been jobbed."  Does that seem accurate?  Frankly, I don't find these Mantis terribly likable.  They want a place in a society of honor and chivalry, when they seem not to value those ideals much, or want to use them to earn said place.  In the words of Worf, "We cannot regain our honor by acting dishonorably."  Their piratical culture seems to me as foreign to Rokugan high society as anything the Unicorn have encountered.

In the old lore, the only thing the Mantis were bad at was being a "respectable" Great Clan- and they basically spent every appearance making it plain that they didn't care.

 

Showing us the "how dare those Crane and Lion and Phoenix look down on us!" as a thing in a story they tell their children makes it much clearer that it actually bothers them.

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10 hours ago, Diogo Salazar said:

Well, on the previous timeline me and my friends agreed that the Spider had more right to be a Great Clan than the Mantis. Unless somehow Yoritomo can show that the Tenth Kami somehow gave them patronage, yeah, the Mantis should be a great clan.

So there are these really powerful divine beings called the Elemental Dragons, you know the ones who decided who got to stay in Tengoku after they cleared the field.  Well one of them decided that Yoritomo as representative of the Mantis was worthy and so gave their divine essence over to Yoritomo to give him the right to stand as an equal to the founding Kami, and the other Dragons and Kami agreed.  But hey if you want to speak out against the divine wisdom that's on you.

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54 minutes ago, Diogo Salazar said:

That was well after they became a Great Clan, though. Which, OOC, I guess it was a way AEG found to justify their Great Clan status.

The Emperor and the other Clans (in setting) agreed that the Mantis had earned great clan status before that, so if you wanted to disagree with them that is on you.

And before you come back with the whole held the empire hostage to get it, that was the gamble Yoritomo took (and was willing to offer his own life for) and it paid off.  Lets not forget the people he was becoming peers with included Kachiko who had been poisoning the Emperor, Yakamo who had given his name to an Oni and the Lion clan, half of whom (Inlcuding their future champion) were still at that point siding with the possessed Emperor, so its not like the other clans were coming in with pure hands.

And if the only criteria is you needed to be a descendant of one of the Kami well Mantis can trace their bloodline directly to Hida as our founder was his grandson who opted to strike out on his own after he was passed over for the Clan Championship of the Crab because he hadn't experienced failure up to that point.  But our Bloodline also traces directly to the Thunder Dragon who is a being of at minimum equal power to the Kami (and likely actually greater since it is a true divine embodiment rather then child of two greater gods) as evidenced by the Dragons were the ones to decide who got to stay in Tengoku.

But sure you stick with your arbitrary decision as to what qualifies as a great clan or not.

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Osano-Wo should be enough of a founding patron for the Mantis.  Father is Hida, Mother is the Thunder Dragon, born as a dragon himself, he's the only one of the Kami's children born of 2 immortals, all of the others having at least 1 mortal parent.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Schmoozies said:

The Emperor and the other Clans (in setting) agreed that the Mantis had earned great clan status before that, so if you wanted to disagree with them that is on you.

And before you come back with the whole held the empire hostage to get it, that was the gamble Yoritomo took (and was willing to offer his own life for) and it paid off.  Lets not forget the people he was becoming peers with included Kachiko who had been poisoning the Emperor, Yakamo who had given his name to an Oni and the Lion clan, half of whom (Inlcuding their future champion) were still at that point siding with the possessed Emperor, so its not like the other clans were coming in with pure hands.

And if the only criteria is you needed to be a descendant of one of the Kami well Mantis can trace their bloodline directly to Hida as our founder was his grandson who opted to strike out on his own after he was passed over for the Clan Championship of the Crab because he hadn't experienced failure up to that point.  But our Bloodline also traces directly to the Thunder Dragon who is a being of at minimum equal power to the Kami (and likely actually greater since it is a true divine embodiment rather then child of two greater gods) as evidenced by the Dragons were the ones to decide who got to stay in Tengoku.

But sure you stick with your arbitrary decision as to what qualifies as a great clan or not.

There was no Emperor at the time, they were actually fighting the Emperor when all that happens and hey, I'm not necessarily being arbitrary here. The Scorpion Clan got exiled twice (for doing the Coup and for, theoretically, disappearing with Toturi) while the Crab Clan, literally allied themselves with the Shadowlands and nothing happened to them. So we could all go and discuss the fine (sillier?) points of the lore that don't make sense at all and that were probably decided in some random vote or tournament to our hearts content. For that matter, I agree with @Doji Hyōkin for Osano-wo be considered their patron, but then again, does anything in the new lore mention Osano-Wo as it was on AEG?

Edited by Diogo Salazar

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1 minute ago, Diogo Salazar said:

There was no Emperor at the time, they were actually fighting the Emperor when all that happens and hey, I'm not necessarily being arbitrary here. The Scorpion Clan got exiled twice (for doing the Coup and for, theoretically, disappearing with Toturi) while the Crab Clan, literally allied themselves with the Shadowlands and nothing happened to them. So we could all go and discuss the fine (sillier?) points of the lore that don't make sense at all and that were probably decided in some random vote or tournament to our hearts content. For that matter, I agree with @Doji Hyōkin for Osano-wo be considered their patron, but then again, does anything in the new lore mention Osano-Wo as it was on AEG?

Osano-Wo heritage is confirmed by the Mantis Clan RPG DLC via the Blood of Osano-Wo advantage. 

And the Mantis were proclaimed a great clan by Toturi 1 following the clan war, so yes an Emperor did declare it, and later Emperor's (Including Iweko who was considered "divine") upheld that decree.

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Great to see Linmei, too. She only gets a brief one-liner reference in the RPG, but the whole legend of the Komori people is really cool*, and I love her depiction here. The fact she and her husband complement each other so well goes a long way (I know it's a story, but I can hope that part is real), as emotionally 'healthy' relationships in Rokugan are frankly pretty rare....

 

* 'so we're under attack from shapeshifting Polynesian Dracula?' 'Yup, pretty much...'

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Posted (edited)

So one of the things I noted when re-reading the character descriptions from Winter's Embrace Yoritomo's niece Magami was only healed of her chronic illness through the intervention of a fire spirit from a volcanic island, at great cost to the clan.  I have to wonder if this story is a hint to those events as well.

Edited by Schmoozies

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4 hours ago, KRKappel said:

Glad you all enjoyed it! I had a lot of fun writing Yoritomo, Linmei, and Kudaka, and that you've all picked up on some of the stuff I worked hard to make work on the page is really gratifying! Thanks so much for reading

Thank you for giving us a glimpse into the modern Mantis clan mindset

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