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“Suffers” means...

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Playing Epic 4-way battle and some question came up. One is:  what does “suffer” mean?

 

ie: Ion Cannon Battery and Mag-Pulse Warheads both state the target suffers one crit.  Does that crit bypass the shields since the dice are cancelled out?

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so it would appear (to me) that suffering damage (and criticals) is what happens before shields are applied.

  If a ship with shields "suffers a critical", it will lose a shield.

If a ship without shields "suffers a critical", it will be dealt a face up damage card.

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6 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

so it would appear (to me) that suffering damage (and criticals) is what happens before shields are applied.

  If a ship with shields "suffers a critical", it will lose a shield.

If a ship without shields "suffers a critical", it will be dealt a face up damage card.

Correct.  The default behaviour when damage is suffered is to deal a card.  If a ship has active shields, you don't deal a card, and instead remove a shield.

It's the most efficient and clear way to write the situation, since not all ships have shields, but all ships can be dealt cards.

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For an example where crits *do* bypass shields you need to look at the condition card "I'll Show You the Dark Side" which replaces the word "suffer" with "dealt". 

I'm sure someone who is better on the forums than me can post the card for reference so you can see how the wording is different.

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8 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Correct.  The default behaviour when damage is suffered is to deal a card.  If a ship has active shields, you don't deal a card, and instead remove a shield.

It's the most efficient and clear way to write the situation, since not all ships have shields, but all ships can be dealt cards.

Strangely, in the rules, it's ACTUALLY the reverse!  The default is to lose a shield, and the replacement effect (if you don't have active shields) is to take damage cards.  Mechanically, it is actually more accurate and consistent to handle it that way, even if it's not exactly intuitive... for efficiency's sake, though, you're very correct.  Suffer Damage = Deal damage cards (faceup or facedown as necessary), UNLESS there are shield charges, in which case remove those first.

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2 hours ago, SwampyCr said:

For an example where crits *do* bypass shields you need to look at the condition card "I'll Show You the Dark Side" which replaces the word "suffer" with "dealt". 

I'm sure someone who is better on the forums than me can post the card for reference so you can see how the wording is different.

To be clear, crits "bypassing shields" is a 'slang' term, as mechanically, that isnt what is actually happening.

latest?cb=20181204185011

 

They are not suffering critical damage, so in effect, the critical damage isn't happening, bypassing the shields or otherwise. Instead (this being the key word), your ship is being dealt a faceup card, and you are then resolving that card. No "damage" is actually occurring or being suffered from the card itself being dealt (effects of the card being different). The critical damage, is being replaced with a card being dealt, not as a result of it.

Mechanically speaking, of course.

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2 hours ago, Lyianx said:

To be clear, crits "bypassing shields" is a 'slang' term, as mechanically, that isnt what is actually happening.

They are not suffering critical damage, so in effect, the critical damage isn't happening, bypassing the shields or otherwise. Instead (this being the key word), your ship is being dealt a faceup card, and you are then resolving that card. No "damage" is actually occurring or being suffered from the card itself being dealt (effects of the card being different). The critical damage, is being replaced with a card being dealt, not as a result of it.

Mechanically speaking, of course.

The same thing happens with Seyn Marana (and any other such future cards that may state "deal 1 [facedown/faceup/etc] damage card."

latest?cb=20180716203132

In a nutshell:

  1. When an effect makes you Suffer Damage, you lose a shield charge.
    1. If you can't lose a shield charge, you are instead dealt a (faceup or facedown) damage card.
  2. When an effect deals a damage card, you simply get the damage card.
  3. The game term "Suffer Damage" is connected to, but not synonymous with, being "deal damage card/s."
    1. In the act of suffering damage, a ship may be dealt a damage card.
    2. Being dealt a damage card is not in itself considered to be "suffering damage" per the game rules (for the purposes of cards like Captain Jostero).

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