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Sear_Clone

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Hello, this is my first post, and I didn't want to flood the forums with a thousand tiny posts, so I put it all in one. I hope these House Rules find homes with GM's who can find a use for them, as well as some help with House rules for my campaign.

Information:

This campaign will be my first time hosting a campaign, my current GM let me slide in as acting GM a few sessions and it went really well. I found I had a ton of fun and so did my players, so I am taking my time to make a really good campaign for them. I wanted your help with a few questions, as well as a few House Rules I made that I wanted to share with the community. I appreciate any and all feedback. I did my best to source all rules I used so they can be easily found and verified.

 

The Campaign:

A mix of Commando's/Clones/Jedi in an operation designed to follow intelligence gathered during the first battle of Geonosis. I am following Karen Traviss's version of the clones and clone commandos. It will be set in a parallel universe so we don't have to worry with canon. It will be heavily combat oriented, but I also want to make sure skills outside of combat are utilized too (medical, social, political, etc). Large volume of Minions, some Rivals, and some dangerous canon characters will appear as well. So since it is heavy in combat (using Collapse of the Repubilc, Rise of the Separatists, and Edge of the Empire primarily, but I own many of the sourcebooks too) I want to make sure it stays interesting. So I have the house rules below to help keep it so. Let me know what you guys think, I appreciate any advice.

 

My GM'ing style (what I am aiming for)

I am open to suggestion, focused on making the players (and myself) happy with the game. I am building an adaptive campaign (because I know a structured one will fall apart by the second session). I am following the most important rule of EOTE that succeeds all others - adjudicating the rules is important - but secondary to having fun!. I do my best to follow the rules as written, but I am open to house rules as well as long as it is written in the language of EOTE and is meant to solve an issue/enhance gameplay. I will make mistakes - but I will also learn from them. I love constructive criticism and I respect honesty - which I have seen time and time again in this community.

 

Did you search the Forums for answers first?

Yes, I did do at least a brief search on each topic to ensure I wasn't re-posting anything that was already answered. I quoted what I found if I did to help ease things.

 

House Rule - Suppressing Fire

Suppressing Fire – (Not to be confused with the talent – pg 43 Rise of the Separatists) Sometimes you need to cover someone’s retreat – or advance. Suppressing the enemy with Suppressing Fire will get the job done. Suppressing Fire is an action that only PC’s can make. The weapon in use has to have the auto-fire quality (auto-fire rules found page 155 core eote). First, gather the dice pool as if you were attack the target that you wish to suppress using normal auto-fire difficulty (increase by one). Second, discard any defensive bonus (as you are not attempting to hit anyone, but simply firing in that general direction). Difficulty is still assigned by range (table 6-1 page 205 core eote). Blind Fire and Suppressing Fire cannot be combined, as they are both an action (action limitations page 203 core eote). If you succeed, that target is forced into Complete Cover. They can still attempt to Blind Fire, but they cannot make a normal attack until you fail the check or select a different target. If the attacker using Suppressing Fire generates a triumph, they count that as a direct hit to the Target as well as forcing them into Complete Cover. If a despair is generated instead, (only if the GM cannot think of any other options) then their next attempt to suppress them will be upgraded once even if the check succeeds. On the players next turn, they must re-roll (change the dice pool if required such as if bonuses no longer apply) and succeed. If they fail to succeed, the target is no longer forced in Complete Cover.

 

House Rule - Pinned

Pinned – For those who wish to suppress the enemy, but fail to have the proper weaponry to lay down Suppressing Fire may opt to instead Pin the enemy. A Pinned enemy can make incidentals or actions as normal, but they may not make any maneuvers to change their range (they may move within their current range however). The player must make a check each turn to keep the enemy pinned. Pinning an enemy down entails (narratively) shooting right beside them, right over them, or right below them in order to give them second thoughts about poking out of cover or going anywhere. As you do not need to be as precise as you would normally need to be to hit them, you still do have to be consistent and place shots near the target (thus the difficulty doesn’t alternate from normal rules). You may switch targets and pin more than one minion group, but remember only one PC can pin one minion group/enemy at a time. If at any time you fail the check to Pin the enemy down, or select a different target, they are no longer considered pinned down.

 

House Rule - Rush

Rush – Enemies who are forced into complete cover or considered pinned may Rush and exit complete cover or the pinned status. However, they must spend a Destiny Point to do so. PC’s do not have to do so. As the GM is spending a destiny point, even though the player is suppressing/pinning the target, they have “paid the price” to escape their predicament for a mere moment. This also encourages the use of Destiny points, and gives the GM a way to prevent players from attempting to abuse the rule.

 

Why the need:

To promote teamwork, the use of destiny points, and to flavor up combat than simply “I take cover and shoot the group of stormtroopers at medium range.” It also introduces tactical planning for those interested in more advanced combat.

 

House Rule - Missing a hit w/advantages

Missing a hit w/advantages

Sometimes you miss a hit with a failure, but gain a plethora of advantages. If this happens, and as approved by the GM, the player may discuss with the GM the possibility of his shot doing something beneficial. The GM determines the specific outcome, if anything at all. This would be particularly specific to space combat when dogfighting against a capital ship. The target might be a nimble TIE fighter that averted the hit, but the bulky capital ship wasn’t so lucky. The Capital ship takes the base damage of the weapon, but no qualities, crits, or talents may be activated beyond the base damage. The advantage needs to be a minimum of 3, and can only be spent once per turn/action.

Sometimes this can apply to ground combat, such as accidentally hitting a button in the background to close the blast door, cutting off reinforcements of the enemy.

The rule is based off of the blast quality, particularly the section where it says if your shot misses (page 155 core eote)

 

Likewise, the opposite can be true

The GM may opt to spend 3 threat on a successful or failed hit to also hit the blast door button, cutting off the party’s escape route. Likewise, it follows all rules above, only being activated once, but the roll can be successful or failed so long as it has the appropriate threat to spend.

 

Why the need:

This allows for greater spending options in combat that can help improve the cinematic feel of the battlefield, as your missed hits still land somewhere, and sometimes it just happens to be somewhere useful. It also helps really bring the background to life – your shot just didn’t disappear into the emptiness of statistics and rng, but into that vital circuit panel that kept the life support functioning. Uh oh.

 

House Rule - Military Tactics

Military Tactics are what separate you from the everyday mercenary. Common and uncomplicated tactics such as a Pincer Movement, can determine defeat or victory. These greatly add flavor and realism to the story, and encourage great story-telling. They also generate great advantage on the battlefield, and to represent this, anytime a Military Tactic is used (and is executed properly) a blue die is gained to the attached combat check. This represents the edge the user now has by using these tested and true tactics. NPC’s and PC’s may use Military Tactics.

 

Why the need:

 

Not only does it encourage critical thinking, tactical planning, good role-playing, and teamwork, but it also helps spice up combat by encouraging the players to make better and more tactical decisions. And for the GM’s, a plan is great until it comes into contact with the enemy (so they will have to continually expand the tactics they use, and adapt them to the situation at hand.) Take the clone wars episode where ki adi munid and obi-wan form a ring around the survivors using AT-TE’s and LA/AT’s. If they didn’t form a defensive position, they would have been slaughtered. Such a simple tactic saved their lives, and allowed them to fend off until help arrived.

 

 

House Rule - Triumphs (Medical Checks)

 

Triumphs – Automatically heal a critical injury, even if the roll was a normal medical check. If no critical injury is present, then the player performing the medicine check can determine one of three ways to spend it. One is to generate half the healing amount done and apply it again, rounded down. So if a player healed 5 wounds, he instead heals an additional 2. The second way is to be able to deal the same amount of healing to the opposite wound. For example, a player who generated 5 successes can heal 5 wounds, then use the triumph to heal 2 strain as well. They can also use the triumph to spend it on the opposite wound outright, healing 5 strain instead and healing no wounds. The final way they can spend it is by using their creativity. For example, creating a splint out of nearby debris, allowing the character to get them and their patient out of harm’s way and behind cover where he can operate better. Remember, this only applies if you generated a triumph, otherwise you follow the normal medical rules.

 

Medical Checks – Can be done as many times as one wishes, so long as:

·         The proper tools are present

·         The proper medical supplies are present

·         The medical injury can be patched up/identified (ripped clothing to stop the bleeding on a shallow cut/Using a hot piece of metal to cauterize a wound [hope its sanitized though]/discovering a wound is bleeding internally/etc.)

The check cannot be done as many times as one wishes if:

·         The medical injury is severe (piece of shrapnel needs removed [if close to artery/organ can kill them if the operation is not done with stead hands – can ‘nick’ and artery]/limb needs reattached/internal bleeding needs stopped) as these need sanitization/clean environment, time, steady hands/etc.

·         There is nothing for them to heal (no open wounds, player can’t specify anything to heal.)

o   If they want to heal additional times, allow them to play the roll of the medic and narratively explain how they are healing the other character. Maybe a piece of shrapnel is embedded into the outer most layer of skin and simply needs removed, cleaned, and patched up. If their explanation of the medical check is less than satisfactory, you can increase/upgrade the difficulty, require a destiny point to be spent, or flat out tell them no or come up with a real reason. This is Role-play after all. Use your imagination and make fixing the pain just as fun as causing it.

Remember:

·         Some injuries need time to heal, and it is ok to deny someone a medical check, stating this injury requires time. This would be an excellent time to use a destiny point, to prevent medics from healing the party to 0 Wound and Strain after every battle. The rules above also help prevent that.

 

House Rule - Critical Injuries (Medical Checks)

Critical Injuries – Critical Injuries can be treated once per session. Remember that any triumphs during medical checks can automatically cure a critical injury, even if one was already treated that same session. Simply one cannot make the roll to treat one more than once a session. Remember that this is an attempt at healing it, so even if you fail you have to wait another session before attempting again. Sometimes injuries just need time to heal.

Normally you have to wait a week to attempt a heal again, but I feel that limits those going for the medical branch too much. Once a session to me seems far more reasonable. (after some downtime has passed such as in a time-skip for a few hours or so). Beyond that, the Republic is going to be able to treat their soldiers/Jedi far better as they are legitimate government capable of maintaining an army, so medical care is far better than that designated in EOTE core books. 

 

House Rule - Despairs (Medical Checks)

Despairs – Despairs in a normal medical check are spent by the GM. They can be spent similar to a triumph (half the healed wounds if the check is successful can be turned into damage) or a botched patch job can lead to more complications (the body is a fragile thing – inadequate care has dire consequences)

 

Why the need:

Medical Checks (page 219-221 core eote) do not offer any suggestions in terms of despairs or triumphs. It is not fair to the player who chose this career skill to have it so underpowered and so limited in what they can and cannot do. This is especially true in combat heavy roleplays. If your sessions are normally light in combat, then I would not suggest using this rule. This also makes thing a bit more fun than, “I roll a medicine check. I heal 2 wound and 1 strain, plus my ranks in surgeon so I heal 2 more wound.”

House Rule - Multiple Crits on a Minion

Multiple Critical Hits on a Minion – Each crit deals one minions worth of wounds after soak. Three critical hits in a single turn will kill three minions in the targeted group. (only can be performed if ______)

 

The Info:

Now my question here is that based off official developer answered questions, its based off a “per hit” basis, not a per enemy basis. (pasted below is the discussion from @Jamwes)

 Based off developer answered question:

“http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/108101-ffg-developer-answered-questions/#entry1119529

Multiple Critical Rolls with Autofire

Asked by 2P51:

Can you roll multiple critical hits with a single attack, if the attack lands multiple hits, ie, you get 3 hits on an auto fire attack and theoretically have enough advantages for 3 critical hit results.

Answered by Sam Stewart:

Criticals are generated on a "per hit" basis. So if you've got multiple hits, you can have multiple crits, just one per hit.”

And as @Braendig posted: “On another note (and this is something I'd been doing wrong for a year), only -one- minion can be removed from a group per critical per hit.  So being able to activate multiple crits against a minion group isn't at all useful -- those advantages are best spent on other things.

That means it'll definitely take some time to whittle down minion groups with 5+ members...”

 

So I know per official dev response, I am to only allow one minion to fall to crits at a time. Plus, crits aren’t mandatory. You can easily spend the advantages/triumphs in many different ways.

 

My proposal:

But my campaign is based in the clone wars, with the PC’s facing large and sometimes overwhelming odds of minion groups. I think in this instance of large scale combat, allowing more than one minion to be crit’d per turn/action would be alright (though in a slower campaign with not high minion number combat I would refer to Sam Stewarts ruling). However I want to stay close to the rules, so I would like a middle ground. My mindset is either they only can if they get a triumph or flip a destiny point. (as they may have 7 advantage but no triumph). I would appreciate the communities opinion on how they view this rule.

 

Why the need:

It is not clearly stated on page 390 of the core rulebook on minions dealing with being dealt multiple critical injuries. Critical injuries can only be inflicted once per turn, and any additional critical injury will only add +10 to the roll. However, a minion group does not suffer critical hits normally. So instead this rule will be used to keep the gameplay flowing, and the PC feeling especially proud of his actions.

(Clarified by Sam Steward in official dev forums)

My campaign is dealing with a high volume of minions, and I want the players to be on heroic standards of Obi-Wan/Rex/Cad Bane/etc. so I think it would be cool for them to be able to kill multiple droids in one turn, provided they have the advantages/triumphs to do so.

 

House Rule - Blind Firing

Blind Firing – Firing Blind into the enemies makes it incredibly hard to hit them, but also prevents them from hitting you. Any attempt to fire blindly (around a bend or over cover) follows the normal difficulty rules (determined by range) with a setback die added to the dice pool (can’t see the targets. Upgrade the difficulty once if an ally is in the way to avoid hitting them (as is normally the case when an ally is between you and the target – page 210 core eote). Both PC’s and NPC’s may make this check. If a despair is generated, you hit an ally, dealing your base damage to the ally (or another target within engaged range if one exists, GM choice). If you failed the check, add the failures to your damage dealt if you hit an ally (if no despair is generated, you simply miss as normal). If the check is successful, remove the successes from your damage dealt (If despair is generated).  For GM’s, this would be an excellent opportunity to raise the difficulty with a destiny point. A maneuver does not need to be made to return to cover or leave cover before or after the action, as raising your weapon and lowering your weapon are considered incidentals, so long as your weapon is equipped and not holstered.

 

House Rule - Complete Cover

Complete Cover – Taking cover completely eliminates the possibility of being hit by enemy fire, and allows players who are weak or hurting to try to heal before rejoining the combat. For example, being behind a really big crate, or a blast door, or even around the bend of a wall will put you into Complete Cover. This has to be announced by the PC at the start/end of their turn, or before initiative order begins. The cover must also logically be able to conceal the PC from all enemies. If at any time cover does not sensibly conceal the PC from any enemy NPC, (even if PC is unaware an enemy has a bead on them) the PC is no longer treated as in Complete Cover, regardless of who is attacking him. This of course does not count when you are being Overrun. Both NPC’s and PC’s can make this maneuver. Remember that your cover has to be strong enough to resist enemy fire for you to be in Complete Cover, even if you are entirely behind it. So, cover like a thin layer of plywood (exact what will work and won’t work is up to the GM) cannot provide the complete cover maneuver, as your cover will be destroyed/compromised before you can even utilize it. You will use the same rules that are on page 213 core eote to help you determine if it can provide complete cover or not as well as any modifiers to any checks. As a generic rule, you want the cover to be able to be 1.5 times the length/width of the PC taking cover as a minimum to be considered viable complete cover.  If more than one player takes cover, the formula changes to 2 times the length/width of all pc’s in that cover to account for movement (swinging your weapon over the cover to blind fire) and some space between players to work with. You may spend as long as you want in Complete Cover, but beware that the enemy will not always wait for you to poke your head out, and they may advance on your position and surround you. If you become surrounded by the enemy force while in Complete Cover, you will be Overrun. Becoming Overrun allows the enemy to Attack you as an incidental and attack during their normal turn (page 133, Rise of the Separatists). You will also count being Overrun as being in Difficult Terrain, meaning it will take two maneuvers to move out of engaged range with the enemy (as stated on page 213 core eote). The enemy can attack (as an incidental) as many times as there are PC’s that are Overrun. So, if there are 3 PC’s in complete cover, whether an enemy group of 5 or 100 stormtroopers surrounds you as their maneuver, they can then only attack 4 times. 1 time per PC, then once per their normal turn. Note that this can be used against you, and you can also use it against your enemies. Note that if you are surrounded, you may announce that you surrender before they open fire to allow GM’s to prevent Player Deaths. You may not make any other action, incidental or otherwise. Until you are no longer considered Overrun (GM’s judgement) As a general rule for me, It requires 3 or more attackers to surround a target to Overrun a target. Anything less than that will simply count as being engaged range with the target(s). A group of 3 minions count as 3 attackers. This also means that 3 PC’s (or if there is fewer players in the party, then the whole party) must all Overrun a target at the same time to be able to use Overrun rules. All PC’s who use Overrun out of their turn treat it as an out of turn incidental. (they must confer with GM out of character) If Overrun fails, for any reason, all PC’s are now at engaged range with the targeted group who can chose to use Overrun, and the initiative order continues as normal.

While in Complete Cover, initiative turns count as normal. You may perform any actions and maneuvers, and the next turn will be passed on. If you manage to attack before you are Overrun or are surrounded, even if they are within engaged range, you will nullify the enemies attempt to Overrun you. Blind firing is an exception to this rule, as you can still remain in Complete Cover while Blind Firing.

Players may think they can peak, fire, then go back in complete cover and use it to easily battle an enemy without worry of being hit. However, this allows the enemy to take two maneuvers towards you each turn - and overrun you a lot quicker, but against smaller number of opponents, it is useful. The overrun ability helps nullify this concern.

 

Why the need:

Overrun is a tactic that can only be used in limited situations. Being able to add it to any combat situation really helps spice things up, as well as Blind Firing, and Complete Cover. This helps the players also not be frustrated with combat situations in which it doesn’t make sense that they are hit (especially repetitively) and gives weaker or hurt players a chance to heal or gather their bearings in battle to come up with a plan.

 

And FINALLY, my proudest house rule that I want to run by you guys - Destiny Points

In my campaign, the parties biggest ally and most powerful enemy is Destiny. It can also be considered Fate or the Force. A big part of that being a parallel world besides the PC's being different - and Destiny wants to keep it that way. So I thought the best way to exemplify that was through the use of Destiny Points. Mechanically, they work the same - but to quote directly the important parts from core EOTE (pages 27-28; 315-316)

“…PC’s are intimately connected to destiny...Destiny may intervene on their behalf for good or ill…may manifest in a positive way…or destiny may prove an ill omen and impose additional hardships and complications...The concept of Destiny and the PC’s ability to tap into and influence this resource is represented by Destiny Points. Destiny is interwoven with the force, which pervades the galaxy with both light and dark energy. Destiny is one way the force guides and surrounds the characters...Using destiny points narratively is a great way to keep all the players involved and keep the story moving forward…players should not abuse this use of Destiny Points…ultimately, this use of Destiny points allows players to feel empowered as active participants in both the game and the story by rewarding creativity and roleplaying. If the destiny point use would fulfill this goal, the GM should consider allowing it...Player characters are wrapped up in the fate of the galaxy, and through their adventures destiny will work both for and against them. When used wisely, Destiny points provide tension and excitement by making routine checks more significant, adding an element of drama to the mundane, or helping provide a boost when the players are overwhelmed...Destiny points represent the inherent connection between characters, villains, and the fate of the galaxy – or at least their part in it. Destiny points are flexible and sometimes fickle, sometimes aiding the characters, sometimes hindering them…The characters typically use light side points to increase their chances to achieve their goals, while gm typically uses dark side points to hinder and obstruct them..."

 

The easiest way to describe what I want to do is by providing an example

The party is chasing a big bad guy. Destiny/Force/Fate doesn’t want him captured yet (Not me as a GM, but in the original timeline he is not yet captured) so a ground quake happens, and the PC’s have to avoid falling debris and continue the chase across shifting terrain that is breaking apart and the general chaos erupting (such as ground is breaking apart and they have to leap between the gaps, communicate effectively to watch out for falling debris, help each other stick together, etc.). If they work as a team and succeed, destiny/fate/force would reward them for their efforts, and by coming together and working as a team, that same obstacle that stopped them from getting to the bad guy now is the path to getting the bad guy. Let's say a pipeline broke on one end from the ground quake, leading up like a ramp into the wookie-sized vent systems. This provides the path that can let them not only catch up to the bad guy, but cut him off too. They still have to work to kill or capture him, but overcoming the obstacle allows them the path to have the chance.

 

 Similarly, Let's say they want to complete a recon mission deep in enemy territory, and end up finding a high value target. But before they can capture him, destiny/force/fate might have a piece of the roof fall loose and pin the character to the ground, making him an easy kill, and they don't have enough time to free him. He begs for mercy, and shows no signs of resistance to their commands. The characters now can easily finish him off and eliminate any future threat from him, but they might want to instead change their minds and take the hard path and not kill him even though he is the enemy, and attempt to rescue him the hard way and keep true to their values. Destiny may not want him captured, so it might entice them to take the easy path at times, making it seem an easy choice. The players aren't forced to take it, but it won't be easy to refuse.

 

So I want to use Destiny Points more narratively to present an obstacle to the party they must overcome if they wish to continue down that path. Fate/Destiny/The Force will challenge them, but it will never prevent them from doing something. But I also want them overcoming the obstacle to be something thats rewarded, not annoying. What's your guys opinion on this?

 

 

Sorry for the long post, I didn't want to spam the thread. Thanks everyone for your contribution!

I attached Word Files below if those are easier to view. 

Destiny Points.docx All House Rules.docx

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I applaud people for trying out and using house rules. Not all House Rules end up working but I think it's great to try them. 

I think the Suppressing Fire and Pinned rules are nice. I think this is an aspect of gunfire exchange that isn't often handled very well so I like that you addressed it. 

A Triumph to heal a Crit seems a bit generous as Triumphs happen so often that this rule would basically make criticals not much of a threat. The main way to die in the game is via a critical hit that is bad enough and the cumulative effect of the consecutive criticals supplies needed danger. 

Not sure why blind firing has much chance to hit if it is what it sounds like, sticking your weapon blindly around a corner or over a wall and firing. I would discourage that as a viable tactic, seems like rewarding people for being silly. 

Complete cover seems good. 

I don't understand the Destiny Points thing and the Doc won't link when I try to view it. 

All in all I think it's great that you are tinkering with the rules.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Archlyte said:

I applaud people for trying out and using house rules. Not all House Rules end up working but I think it's great to try them. 

I think the Suppressing Fire and Pinned rules are nice. I think this is an aspect of gunfire exchange that isn't often handled very well so I like that you addressed it. 

A Triumph to heal a Crit seems a bit generous as Triumphs happen so often that this rule would basically make criticals not much of a threat. The main way to die in the game is via a critical hit that is bad enough and the cumulative effect of the consecutive criticals supplies needed danger. 

Not sure why blind firing has much chance to hit if it is what it sounds like, sticking your weapon blindly around a corner or over a wall and firing. I would discourage that as a viable tactic, seems like rewarding people for being silly. 

Complete cover seems good. 

I don't understand the Destiny Points thing and the Doc won't link when I try to view it. 

All in all I think it's great that you are tinkering with the rules.

 

 

 

Thank you for your response!

 

I agree with the triumph healing a crit being too generous. It is an especially dangerous tool that both npcs and pcs should fear - implementing this would only make things worse. As my parties dedicated healer (and annoyingly recurring triumph roller) I may have gotten a bit carried away with this, thanks for pointing it out.

__________________________________________________________________________________

Again, I may have gotten carried away with trying to spice up combat. I will look at my blind fire house rule and see if I really need it after implementing the others. I had meant it more for a desperate cover fire type situation, but I see your point about people possibly abusing it.

__________________________________________________________________________________

I had hoped complete cover would help alleviate some frustration with using cover, I am glad you agree.

__________________________________________________________________________________

The Destiny Point thing I wouldn't have used in a normal campaign. My campaign being in a parallel timeline I had basically wanted Destiny to try to keep the players from making decisions too far from the timeline, and the Destiny Points being the tool to allow Destiny to obstruct them. Now as a GM, I want my players to resist Destiny, so if they manage to overcome the obstruction Destiny sets in their way as a team, then I would reward them by using that to create the path to the goal they wish to achieve.

Likewise, if Destiny sees they are taking the hard path and changing the timeline by not making an easy choice (such as killing an enemy instead of capturing him) it will flip a Destiny point to make the easy path more enticing (making the enemy an easy target or making players want to kill him more). If they would, in this scenario, not take the easy path (killing him) then it would make things harder for them, but still doable.

In short, Destiny uses Destiny points to resist players changing timeline, While I as a GM hope for their success, and if they overcome it, reward them.

I would like to use them to create a barrier that when overcome, creates the path they are looking for. I would imagine this would help spice up Destiny points, as we currently use them to narratively input things we forgot or make checks harder/easier (which is fine, as it is within the rules so long as we role play it and not just use it as a get out of jail free card). I hope this clarify's it a bit so it makes more sense.

__________________________________________________________________________________

I re-linked the files below. I right-clicked on them and hit "open link in new tab" and it downloaded. Not sure if that helps.

 

Thanks for the reply again! I will keep your advice in mind. 

Destiny Points.docx All House Rules.docx

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The main thing I see is that these rules are very verbose. I normally try to read everything in its entirety before responding, but I find that difficult in this case.

So I'll make a few more general points: These rules seem much more complicated than anything in the RAW. I've made my own share of possibly overcomplicated houserules, but I think they were a bit more situational and generally less major than these. Complete Cover in particular I was unable to wade through, but here's my suggestion for handling it: It's just an extension of cover: The character cannot be targeted, but it takes a Maneuver to duck out to fire. The enemy can maneuver around cover to fire at the character.

As for Advantage on a failed check, that's what the "Spending [Advantage], [Triumph], [Threat], and [Despair] in Combat" table is for, and I think it covers it pretty well. It is not contingent on a successful check, in case that was a point of confusion.

For Medical checks, I think the RAW is mostly sufficient in this case. I would add that Threat inflicts Strain, Failure inflicts Wounds, and Despair inflicts a single Critical Injury. Triumph can upgrade the next Medical check on the subject.

I disagree with you about minions and crits, minions are already really easy to kill and it can be hard to challenge advanced characters with them. I would suggest sticking to the RAW in this case, but if you prefer your way, that's fine.

For suppressing fire, I'd look to the statblock for the Alliance Infantry and their ability "Covering Fire." It allows them to spend a Maneuver to add +1 Ranged Defense to up to 3 characters within short range. I would suggest simplifying it to "spend a Maneuver to add a Setback to all checks made by [subject]" this would simplify and combine suppressing fire and pinned.

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Posted (edited)

Sear_Clone first off I would just like to thank you for such a pleasant and thoughtful response. I appreciate you taking the feedbacking the spirit in which it was given.

Destiny Points: This way of using it sounds cool as all get out, I am just trying to make sure I understand it. I don't really get excited about the whole "I am going to use a Destiny point to make this Charm check to see if I can get the drink form the bartender cheaper" thing, so I think a narrative story use for them sounds great. 

Also I really like your rule for Missing but a lot of advantage. This is one of those things that crops up frequently and can feel a bit weird. Good use of an existing mechanic in using something like the Blast quality. I think I would not use it all the time but I am going to steal it for occasional use 🙂

Your preamble was helpful too in knowing what kind of game you like to run. 

Could you elaborate on what you mean when you say "timeline" ?

get this error on the attachment:

Sorry, there is a problem

This attachment is not available. It may have been removed or the person who shared it may not have permission to share it to this location.

Error code: 2C171/1

 

 

 

Edited by Archlyte

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12 hours ago, Archlyte said:

Sear_Clone first off I would just like to thank you for such a pleasant and thoughtful response. I appreciate you taking the feedbacking the spirit in which it was given.

Destiny Points: This way of using it sounds cool as all get out, I am just trying to make sure I understand it. I don't really get excited about the whole "I am going to use a Destiny point to make this Charm check to see if I can get the drink form the bartender cheaper" thing, so I think a narrative story use for them sounds great. 

Also I really like your rule for Missing but a lot of advantage. This is one of those things that crops up frequently and can feel a bit weird. Good use of an existing mechanic in using something like the Blast quality. I think I would not use it all the time but I am going to steal it for occasional use 🙂

Your preamble was helpful too in knowing what kind of game you like to run. 

Could you elaborate on what you mean when you say "timeline" ?

get this error on the attachment:

Sorry, there is a problem

This attachment is not available. It may have been removed or the person who shared it may not have permission to share it to this location.

Error code: 2C171/1

 

 

 

Of course! I am here to learn, so I am excited to adapt and utilize the feedback provided by the community.
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P-47 actually pointed out to me that the missing but spending advantage is a RAW and I just wasn't aware. I will try to find the page, I didn't see it on pages 206-207 of the core rulebook, but I will edit this response and let you know when I do find it.
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Not sure about the attachment thing, I will search around the forums and see if similar issues arose with someone else. Maybe I need to make it a shared document?
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Sorry, by "Timeline" I mean the canon Timeline.

So if Greivous, for example, is supposed to die on Utapu at the end of the clone wars then Destiny will push to keep that true. Destiny might not care if the players change HOW he dies, or if he dies a little sooner or later than that, but if they try to change it too much then it interveens.

If a battle is supposed to be lost, Destiny wants it kept that way. It might not care how it is lost, so long as it is not won.

Hope that helps.

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15 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The main thing I see is that these rules are very verbose. I normally try to read everything in its entirety before responding, but I find that difficult in this case.

So I'll make a few more general points: These rules seem much more complicated than anything in the RAW. I've made my own share of possibly overcomplicated houserules, but I think they were a bit more situational and generally less major than these. Complete Cover in particular I was unable to wade through, but here's my suggestion for handling it: It's just an extension of cover: The character cannot be targeted, but it takes a Maneuver to duck out to fire. The enemy can maneuver around cover to fire at the character.

As for Advantage on a failed check, that's what the "Spending [Advantage], [Triumph], [Threat], and [Despair] in Combat" table is for, and I think it covers it pretty well. It is not contingent on a successful check, in case that was a point of confusion.

For Medical checks, I think the RAW is mostly sufficient in this case. I would add that Threat inflicts Strain, Failure inflicts Wounds, and Despair inflicts a single Critical Injury. Triumph can upgrade the next Medical check on the subject.

I disagree with you about minions and crits, minions are already really easy to kill and it can be hard to challenge advanced characters with them. I would suggest sticking to the RAW in this case, but if you prefer your way, that's fine.

For suppressing fire, I'd look to the statblock for the Alliance Infantry and their ability "Covering Fire." It allows them to spend a Maneuver to add +1 Ranged Defense to up to 3 characters within short range. I would suggest simplifying it to "spend a Maneuver to add a Setback to all checks made by [subject]" this would simplify and combine suppressing fire and pinned.

Sorry, I have bad habit of overexplaining myself. I know a wall of text can definitely be hard to work with.

I dont expect anyone to read whole thing, just wanted to avoid spamming forums with individual posts. I do appreciate advice on even just one thing, I don't expect a review on each thing I listed. I will do my best keep my posts short and to the point in future.
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In response to my house rules being too complicated:

Yeah I may have overcomplicated it a bit, I will take your advice and streamline it. The way they are set up now just will bog down gameplay, so I do see your point there.

Thanks for the streamlined version of complete cover, this would be a lot easier to deal with in game, but I would still like to use Overrun a little bit more, just as I think it is a really cool rule that deserves a bit more love and keeps the player moving. You never want to stay in one spot too long. But again, I will learn from your advice and streamline it.
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In response to spending advantage on a failed combat roll:

Yes I was under the impression that you cant spend advantage that way if you fail, but I did look on pages 206-207 of the core eote and didn't see where it explains that. Would you mind sharing the place where you found that info at? That way I can share it with my current GM and implement that into our current sessions. Thanks!

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As Archlyte stated the triumph house rule was being too generous, and you stated that as well. I definitely like the idea to upgrade the next medical check (if that is a RAW rule I didn't see it on pages 219-221) instead of healong a crit. I also see where some of my confusion comes from after re-reading this section.
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As for the minions and crits, I do see your point. I agree they are easy to take out especially for high level characters (which my current group is definitely at that level with well over 2,000 xp per player....poor GM)

I felt as though with a higher volume of baddies being thrown at the group it might be better to do it this way, but I will keep your advice in mind as I do see the point.
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As for suppressing fire, I agree that it is overcomplicated as you pointed out, and it would be nice to combine pinned and suppressing fire as well. It makes it easier on me and my players. I will look into using the advice you offered, I think that will make things a lot smoother.
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I appreciate your help, thanks! And if you could let me know the page number/source for the spending advantages on a failed combat check I would greatly appreciate it!

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Sear_Clone said:

Yes I was under the impression that you cant spend advantage that way if you fail, but I did look on pages 206-207 of the core eote and didn't see where it explains that. Would you mind sharing the place where you found that info at? That way I can share it with my current GM and implement that into our current sessions. Thanks!

Page 23 of the EotE CRB under "Advantages and Threat": "This possibility for a positive or negative side effect occurs regardless of whether the task succeeds or fails."
It is important to note the distinction that you cannot trigger (most) weapon qualities on a failed check.

20 minutes ago, Sear_Clone said:

As Archlyte stated the triumph house rule was being too generous, and you stated that as well. I definitely like the idea to upgrade the next medical check (if that is a RAW rule I didn't see it on pages 219-221) instead of healong a crit. I also see where some of my confusion comes from after re-reading this section.

I took the upgrade from a common expenditure from the combat table, where you can spend a Triumph to upgrade someone's next check. It makes sense to be able to upgrade the next medical check on the person, in my opinion, building on your prior experience and work (so sort of RAW, but also not).

In the skills description for Medicine, it actually seems to suggest that you can spend a Triumph on a Medicine check made to heal wounds to heal a Critical Injury ("Triumph generated during a Medicine check to heal a Critical Injury may also heal additional wounds, or vice versa."), but I don't think you should. If you do allow a Triumph to heal a crit, I would suggest limiting it to Easy difficulty crits (though I still would not recommend it).

20 minutes ago, Sear_Clone said:

As for the minions and crits, I do see your point. I agree they are easy to take out especially for high level characters (which my current group is definitely at that level with well over 2,000 xp per player....poor GM)

I felt as though with a higher volume of baddies being thrown at the group it might be better to do it this way, but I will keep your advice in mind as I do see the point.

Perhaps you should make use of the Phalanx rules from Rise of the Separatists. It makes the most sense for battle droids, but it could be used for stormtroopers and others as well.

20 minutes ago, Sear_Clone said:

Thanks for the streamlined version of complete cover, this would be a lot easier to deal with in game, but I would still like to use Overrun a little bit more, just as I think it is a really cool rule that deserves a bit more love and keeps the player moving. You never want to stay in one spot too long. But again, I will learn from your advice and streamline it.

If the character is out in the open, they are out in the open. Whether they're surrounded or not doesn't really matter. The reason for Overrun in the Phalanx is that there is a second group behind the front line. So it isn't the same group getting two attacks, it's two groups each getting one attack.

However, thinking about this more, since Defense from Cover doesn't stack with Defense from Armor and it's an either/or proposition, perhaps adding a Boost die or an automatic Advantage to any attacks against characters who are out of cover (and not prone, since that provides a Setback to ranged attacks) will make it valuable even if they don't actually gain a Defense increase.

Edited by P-47 Thunderbolt

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Looking at Blind Firing, a single Setback isn't much at all, considering night darkness adds 3. Blinded is also an appropriate analogue, and it upgrades the difficulty twice.

I don't think Blind Firing should be a viable option, and skill probably wouldn't play into it all that much. If you want to use it, I would suggest upgrading the difficulty twice and adding two Setback, in addition to any penalties from the target. I still wouldn't suggest it though.

 

An idea for Suppressing Fire:

In the AoR CRB, there is an option for ship combat called Blanket Barrage: make an Average Gunnery check, upgrading the difficulty of all combat checks made against the ship by sil 4 and smaller ships once, plus one per 2 Advantage scored on the check. If the opponent's combat check generates 2 Threat, they suffer one automatic hit dealing half base damage (rounded up) of the type of weapon used in the attack. Despair results in a full-on hit.

Here's my suggestion: Average [combat] check against a single target within Medium range. Ignoring ALL cover, but not Adversary. For each 2 Advantage (or Triumph) on the check, you can extend the suppression to an additional target or upgrade the difficulty a second time. If a target generates 2 Threat on a subsequent check, they suffer a hit for half the sum of base damage and success (rounded up). On Despair, they suffer a hit for base damage plus success.
With a blaster rifle and 3 success, you're looking at 6 damage on 2 Threat or 12 damage on a Despair.

I would prefer to streamline it with "Maneuver=Setback" but if you want to complicate things a bit more, I think this is a good way to do that and it fits with RAW. It gives the character a chance to deal damage, and it gives them a defensive bonus. I would not suggest limiting what weapons this can be used with, except probably anything with Slow-Firing or Prepare (unless the weapon also has Auto-Fire).

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1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Page 23 of the EotE CRB under "Advantages and Threat": "This possibility for a positive or negative side effect occurs regardless of whether the task succeeds or fails."
It is important to note the distinction that you cannot trigger (most) weapon qualities on a failed check.

Thanks! I will bring this to the attention of the current GM. @Archlyte, here is the page info for spending advantage even if check fails. 

 

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

In the skills description for Medicine, it actually seems to suggest that you can spend a Triumph on a Medicine check made to heal wounds to heal a Critical Injury ("Triumph generated during a Medicine check to heal a Critical Injury may also heal additional wounds, or vice versa."), but I don't think you should. If you do allow a Triumph to heal a crit, I would suggest limiting it to Easy difficulty crits (though I still would not recommend it).

Thank you for letting me know, I think I will allow it on easy checks in extreme circumstances, but since I am going to use it to upgrade checks instead, I will limit its use to be fair. I will keep your advice in mind about it belittling crits.

 

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Perhaps you should make use of the Phalanx rules from Rise of the Separatists. It makes the most sense for battle droids, but it could be used for stormtroopers and others as well.

That's the plan, since the campaign takes place in the Clone Wars and Separatists ended up using numbers over quality.

 

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The reason for Overrun in the Phalanx is that there is a second group behind the front line. So it isn't the same group getting two attacks, it's two groups each getting one attack.

Oh! This actually makes a lot of sense - I didn't look at it that way. Thank you! I will probably not use overrun outside of phalanxes then.

 

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

perhaps adding a Boost die or an automatic Advantage to any attacks against characters who are out of cover (and not prone, since that provides a Setback to ranged attacks) will make it valuable even if they don't actually gain a Defense increase.

I just want to clarify, if you are in cover you will gain advantage against those out of cover, correct? Would make sense and entice players to use cover that normally wouldn't since they have better armor/defense stats.

 

1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I don't think Blind Firing should be a viable option, and skill probably wouldn't play into it all that much. If you want to use it, I would suggest upgrading the difficulty twice and adding two Setback, in addition to any penalties from the target. I still wouldn't suggest it though.

Both you and Archlyte suggested not using Blind Fire, so I might be trying too hard to be tactical. I will definitely keep this in mind and will probably axe it all together. 

 

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I would prefer to streamline it with "Maneuver=Setback" but if you want to complicate things a bit more, I think this is a good way to do that and it fits with RAW. It gives the character a chance to deal damage, and it gives them a defensive bonus. I would not suggest limiting what weapons this can be used with, except probably anything with Slow-Firing or Prepare (unless the weapon also has Auto-Fire).

I appreciate you offering an alternative, but I agree with you that it would be complicated, which I want to avoid after reading the feedback. Simple is good. I will definitely look into the alternative more thoroughly though.

 

Thanks for all your help!

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7 minutes ago, Sear_Clone said:

I just want to clarify, if you are in cover you will gain advantage against those out of cover, correct? Would make sense and entice players to use cover that normally wouldn't since they have better armor/defense stats.

No. It doesn't matter if you are in cover, all that matters is if the target is out of cover. Then it's a matter of choosing whether the benefit/penalty is going to be Automatic Advantage or Boost. Either is good, but I was suggesting Automatic Advantage to make it easier to crit. Comparable to the flanking bonus in XCOM2 if you're familiar with that game.

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@Archlyte

 

I'm not sure I have anything new to add here, I'm afraid.  The only point I feel I "need" to second is that these are quite verbose, and your players will thank you for editing and condensing them.

 

But I also have to say you deserve credit for approaching this like a designer: you knew and stated your goals and moved in that direction for the sake of your players and the game you want to have together.  This is the way.

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16 minutes ago, BrickSteelhead said:

The only point I feel I "need" to second is that these are quite verbose, and your players will thank you for editing and condensing them.

I appreciate your input. I definitely agree with you, these rules need trimmed significantly. Overcomplicating them will bog down gameplay which is the last thing I want.

 

18 minutes ago, BrickSteelhead said:

But I also have to say you deserve credit for approaching this like a designer: you knew and stated your goals and moved in that direction for the sake of your players and the game you want to have together.

Thank you! My players are all my very close friends in real life, and the only thing I care about is having a fun game we can all enjoy. At the end of the day, that is the point of it - to spend time together and have a blast doing it!

I intend to bring every one of these house rules (after adjusting them to the input the community has given me) to my players and ensure everyone is ok with them and understands them, so I really do appreciate everyone's help!

26 minutes ago, BrickSteelhead said:

This is the way.

This is the way.

 

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On 6/12/2020 at 4:37 AM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

For suppressing fire, I'd look to the statblock for the Alliance Infantry and their ability "Covering Fire." It allows them to spend a Maneuver to add +1 Ranged Defense to up to 3 characters within short range. I would suggest simplifying it to "spend a Maneuver to add a Setback to all checks made by [subject]" this would simplify and combine suppressing fire and pinned.

Make it an action.

The character uses Suppressing fire on target giving him an increase in difficulty of checka this round. The user may make an attack against the target if he takes a maneuver moving.

Basicly I translated it from XCOM.

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1 minute ago, Rimsen said:

Make it an action.

The character uses Suppressing fire on target giving him an increase in difficulty of checka this round. The user may make an attack against the target if he takes a maneuver moving.

Basicly I translated it from XCOM.

I considered that, but this system doesn't have any rules for held actions and I didn't want to introduce something like that. Also, Overwatch shots have a -30 chance to hit, so if you were to include that you'd have to increase the difficulty once or twice, or at least add a couple Setback.

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I would like to thank everyone for their contributions. I will be editing the rules with the feedback provided.

Feel free to continue providing it, I appreciate any I can get!

Again, thank you for being an awesome community and helping me out. 

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