Characters vs. Creatures (when character auto wins)!

[Toothless_Night_Fury 103]

Hi guys/gals,

When a character is so strong that he auto defeats creatures, the creature rolls a d12 (or 2d6) in our games. You could also use a d10 if you want it a bit lower.

Ell.

[talismanisland 721]

An interesting and simple workaround. I'd stick with the 2d6 as you wouldn't need to source any other types of die and you get plenty of d6s in the box already!

I think I would prefer some sort of levelling system, but I realise that the mechanics of Talisman do not really lend themselves to that type of solution.

[Mr. Brogger 2]

You could also make this rule:

If a creature rolls a 6 it may roll the dice again:

1. lose
2. lose
3. draw
4. draw
5. win
6. win

Not sure if it will work the whole way but that is a solution I have thought about. I think the 2d6 system gives me unbalanced characters. Some of them will need special rules.

[JCHendee 3]

I think a lot of people are running into a similar situation.  The opponents in the Inner Region (and other spaces) aren't much of a challenge anymore due to some very elevated Craft and Strength among characters, especially when playing with decreased trophy exchange rates for a faster game.  When we're playing with inexperience players we always stick closely to the base rules.  If we have only experienced / long time players at the table, we've tried a couple of options....

1. Use 2D6 for all combat
2. Middle Region at +1 for all Enemies and creatures in combat, on top of any other modifiers on spaces.
3. Inner Region at +2 (or +3) for all Enemies and creatures in combat, with +2 for any roll that generates a creature count, Strength, and or Craft.
4. and/or all of the above.

So far its been a little hit or miss as to whether this works well or not, but it has eliminated (almost) all autowins in the late game, and mitigated many early autolosses as well. I should note that the above rules are most often played with a KotH© ending.  If we use a random ending, Inner Region modifiers are usually not applied to any 'endboss' drawn as an AltEnd.

We tried a few other options seen on other boards.  A simple regional modifier was the cleanest and quickest way to handle things. One could even then just go for something else from game to game, such as +0/+2/+4 regional and even add a modifier for realms if one wanted.

Alternative dice were suggested as another option, and voted down by almost all (even experienced RPGers) .

Personally, I don't think any one solution fits all groups. You just have to try different things and see what appeals the most to a particular mix of players.

[The Thing In The Attic 10]

I had similar thoughts, but now I understand the need for low strength/craft enemies. 
1. It stops characters cashing in strength/craft in one go too easily.
2 it allows weaker characters to beat enemies to help get their strength up and not lose lives.
3 it allows for the possibility of two enemies/creatures fighting together when drawn together with the same encounter number. (Including the add 2 to strength locations)
4 it keeps the game fast paced, and auto defeating enemies means you save time rolling dice (if you don't wish to roll them, but you should always be given the opportunity to make the rolls in case you want to use Fate, not sure why you would but there you go). If you are too powerful then, you should already be heading into the crown of command.

If you make enemies too powerful then you unbalance the fast paced nature of the game and you will upset the loosing lives mechanic. In short, more lives will be lost resulting in more players dropping their stuff and starting new weaker characters. Players will seize more opportunities to waste a character that has lost a couple of lives to these enhanced enemies. The existing characters become way to powerful if they then picks up a load more stuff due to more characters dying. In short the power difference between players will increase too much and then the game will be unbalanced in a downward spiral rather than an upward spiral.
 

If you adjust the mechanics for powerful characters only, in an attempt to level the playing field, you are actually unbalancing the game not balancing it. Players need to know when to quit the region they are in and proceed to the next one. Enemies and monsters are a means to an end, not the reason for the game, that’s why there are many other types of adventure cards too.
Last thought: if you do increase the power of enemies then you'd need to balance out with more healing opportunities too.
Phil
 

 

 

 

[JCHendee 3]

Everything you say is perfectly right... but only as you say, based on "speed" and the win.  There are groups that are more into the game play than the game's ending.  And autowins do have a problem. 

The more a character faces no risks for gains, the more its Strength and Craft grow at a faster rate than competitors.  This is directly the opposite of the way it could work, where getting to higher and higher Strenght and Craft should become a deterant to lingering rather than heading for the Crown and still having to face risks.  Modifiers by region leave an area of the playing field untouched so that lower level characters still have a chance to catch up.  Modifiers closer to the ending's space mean those characters in the lead better move it instead of gaining more risk-free boosts... or others will catch up.

[Tons-Home-rules 0]

My group (barring one individual) is all about the journey, not the end. We don’t care about the endings, which, for us, means we stop playing the game we love. (Dam look away please) 18+ ST/CR is not uncommon at all at the endgame.

 

However, if I’m to use my home rules powers for Evil instead of Good… (Sorry, had to)

To curb auto-wins, you can add the following Home Rules.

If an Enemy encountered is auto-win for the players, including all bonuses for either side (runes vs items, etc…), then the Enemy is automatically discarded instead of kept as a trophy. Furthermore, any other advantages of killing the enemy (Roll for Gold, Teleport to Tunnel, etc…) is negated as well.

If a Creature encountered is an auto-win for the players, (or auto 8+ win if LoD or similar chart based creature), the player wins and gets the reward as normal (Treasure Card, Passes the Sentinel) etc… but misses his next turn Gloating.

Makes those Inner Region Pit Fiends much more annoying. Instead of ST 4 rapid-fire slaughter (Which, in digression, who EVER thought that was a good number? The Farmer in the tavern is ST 3, the Sentinel is ST 9, the black knight auto-beats you, and the guardians of the Inner region, where no-one dares to tread… is… ST 4. Like, there isn’t a 1 missing as in ST 14? But that’s just me. Sorry for the ramble), it means you lose 1-6 turns vs the pit fiends. Lose 1 turn vs the werewolf.

Of course, to prevent min-maxers, if you have an item, you HAVE to use it if it’s not an expendable resource. No “I won’t use either of my swords” says the warrior, just to get around the system. Nothing stops characters from dropping items, but no munchkin like tactics please.

This way, the 2 and 3 draw spaces become much more valuable to high end characters, as they’ll be the only way to get trophies, assuming they draw enemies. As an aside, as a ST 12 assassin, I thought I was pretty big for my britches last game in the dungeon. Then on a draw 3 spot, I got a ST 8 Dragon and 2x ST 4 spiders. ST 16 total. Rolled a 1. Fate. 1. Ow. Had only 1 life left… thank God for armour.

In all fairness, once you’re 12/12 or higher, you can beat end bosses if you have a pocketful of Fate, but, sometimes, you just can’t get a Talisman. To the great embarrassment of our “end game rusher”, the max stats ever gotten was 16/16 or thereabouts, from us continually stealing, shattering, or otherwise messing up the Talisman that was owned, messing up the Warlock quest, etc… Then again, that person is used to “the room is against me.”

Anyhow, hopefully the above Home Rule will allow the curbing of the high levels without penalizing the lower ones. And, if you’re 12/12 and not going to the center, not by choice but by not having a Talisman, well, that’s probably rare enough to not warrant a what if… but that’s just me.