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What if FFG created another brand new ship?

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2 minutes ago, EbonHawk said:

It would be to the Rebels, the ones using it 

But like I said, the Red & Blue dice version of the MC40 would be very similar to Assault Frigate Mark II (both versions), so the MC40 wouldn't be distinct.

And Red/Blue & Black dice version of the MC40 would be very similar to the MC30 -- just slower (presumably Speed 3) and tanky-er (6-7 hull points).

At least the Interdictor and Quasar Fire are unique ships that added versatility to the Empire's fleet.

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1 minute ago, Reavern said:

But like I said, the Red & Blue dice version of the MC40 would be very similar to Assault Frigate Mark II (both versions), so the MC40 wouldn't be distinct.

Tankier - no squadrons 

1 minute ago, Reavern said:

And Red/Blue & Black dice version of the MC40 would be very similar to the MC30 -- just slower (presumably Speed 3) and tanky-er (6-7 hull points).

Allows for a mini 75 to pair with a couple of 30s and still has a L/MFC.

1 minute ago, Reavern said:

that added versatility to the Empire's fleet.

Both points above would add versatility to the Rebels.. I would advise you try flying rebels and you'd see the need for a medium brusier.

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4 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

of the 4 medium ships in game, 3 are imperial already.

How many of them see regular use though? That's why I would think more options for the imps

Thematically, they should have more anyways.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Rogue09 said:

How many of them see regular use though? That's why I would think more options for the imps

Thematically, they should have more anyways.

All 3 of them. More so now Harrow title is out. Even 1 on 1, I would imagine the Imp mediums all beat the Afk for playtime, only close fight would be Vic v Afk.

Imps also already have a small lead in ship/squadron numbers.

22 rebel ships, 24 imp ships.

37 rebel squads, 39 imp squads.

Counting each unique variant, and aces.

 

Thematically B-wings shouldn't be so slow, Han should be faster etc etc.. balance and thematics isn't easy 

Edited by EbonHawk

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A little off topic but in the recent ANZAC TTS tournament (240 pts) almost all Imperial players fleets contained Victory SD's.

 

On topic, yes Rebels need another medium. What, not sure. Maybe MC40. Medium size with a bit more beef.

Maybe strike cruiser for the Imperial fleet. Speed 3 but less hull & firepower than a victory?

 

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8 hours ago, Reavern said:

But like I said, the Red & Blue dice version of the MC40 would be very similar to Assault Frigate Mark II (both versions), so the MC40 wouldn't be distinct.

And Red/Blue & Black dice version of the MC40 would be very similar to the MC30 -- just slower (presumably Speed 3) and tanky-er (6-7 hull points).

At least the Interdictor and Quasar Fire are unique ships that added versatility to the Empire's fleet.

Give it some unique titles and we could see distinction. Sure it could be similar stats to the MC-30, but what if it had a built in salvo for the craft? There is some changes we can apply to it to make it viable compared to the two frigates.

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3 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

All 3 of them. More so now Harrow title is out. Even 1 on 1, I would imagine the Imp mediums all beat the Afk for playtime, only close fight would be Vic v Afk.

Imps also already have a small lead in ship/squadron numbers.

22 rebel ships, 24 imp ships.

37 rebel squads, 39 imp squads.

Counting each unique variant, and aces.

 

Thematically B-wings shouldn't be so slow, Han should be faster etc etc.. balance and thematics isn't easy 

The Empire only has more "ships" if you count Ship Cards, and that's because the SSD comes with 4 ship cards. For over 4 years, the Rebels had one more ship than the Empire because Wave 1 had the CR90, Nebulon-B, and Assault Frigate Mark II, whereas the Empire had the Victory SD and Gladiator. After the SSD was released, both factions have the same number of ship expansions. And the Empire only has 2 additional squadrons because the Chimaera expansion included the Mandalorian Gauntlet Fighter squadrons; but the Chimaera was just a repaint of the ISD, so the Rebels arguably gained more with the Profundity expansion.

Furthermore, the Imperial Light Cruiser (Arquitens) and Imperial Light Carrier (Quasar Fire) expansions have been the most difficult to acquire. Many Imperial players don't have those ships, so I'd contend that Rebel players have the advantage in terms of ship variety.

IME the Assault Frigate Mark II goes in and out of vogue, which seems to be linked with Rebel squadron-heavy builds, presumably because of the Galant Haven ship title and the AFM2B is a more well-rounded carrier and combat ship than the Empire's Quasar Fire.

 

Regarding the B-wings, according to canon sources, the B-wing is slower than the Y-wing:

Quote

A/SF-01 B-wing starfighter - Wookieepedia

The A/SF-01 B-wing starfighter, manufactured by Slayn & Korpil, was a relatively poor dogfighter, but it was primarily designed as a "blockade buster" to attack and destroy large capital ships. As such, it was equipped with weaponry and systems normally reserved for much larger craft.[5] Indeed, the B-wing boasted more firepower than most patrol ships and corvettes. At the same time, it was slower and less maneuverable than a Y-wing, gave off a significant infrared signature, and required more maintenance than any other Rebel starfighter.

Since the Y-wing is a Speed 3 squadron and the B-wing was supposed to be slower than it, the B-wing had to be Speed 2.

As for the Millennium Falcon, it's often misunderstood that the Falcon is "the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy", but only in hyperspace. That's because its heavily modified (and temperamental) hyperdrive has a 0.5 rating. Being able to fly across the galaxy faster than any other ship is certainly useful, but not in combat scenarios. In all of the Falcon's on-screen depictions, it has never been the fastest ship in realspace travel, which is why TIE Fighters and even Star Destroyers can keep up with it.

Therefore, I think the Millennium Falcon's Speed 3 in Armada is appropriate.

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19 minutes ago, Reavern said:

The Empire only has more "ships" if you count Ship Cards, and that's because the SSD comes with 4 ship cards. For over 4 years, the Rebels had one more ship than the Empire because Wave 1 had the CR90, Nebulon-B, and Assault Frigate Mark II, whereas the Empire had the Victory SD and Gladiator. After the SSD was released, both factions have the same number of ship expansions. And the Empire only has 2 additional squadrons because the Chimaera expansion included the Mandalorian Gauntlet Fighter squadrons; but the Chimaera was just a repaint of the ISD, so the Rebels arguably gained more with the Profundity expansion.

Furthermore, the Imperial Light Cruiser (Arquitens) and Imperial Light Carrier (Quasar Fire) expansions have been the most difficult to acquire. Many Imperial players don't have those ships, so I'd contend that Rebel players have the advantage in terms of ship variety.

IME the Assault Frigate Mark II goes in and out of vogue, which seems to be linked with Rebel squadron-heavy builds, presumably because of the Galant Haven ship title and the AFM2B is a more well-rounded carrier and combat ship than the Empire's Quasar Fire.

 

Regarding the B-wings, according to canon sources, the B-wing is slower than the Y-wing:

Since the Y-wing is a Speed 3 squadron and the B-wing was supposed to be slower than it, the B-wing had to be Speed 2.

As for the Millennium Falcon, it's often misunderstood that the Falcon is "the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy", but only in hyperspace. That's because its heavily modified (and temperamental) hyperdrive has a 0.5 rating. Being able to fly across the galaxy faster than any other ship is certainly useful, but not in combat scenarios. In all of the Falcon's on-screen depictions, it has never been the fastest ship in realspace travel, which is why TIE Fighters and even Star Destroyers can keep up with it.

Therefore, I think the Millennium Falcon's Speed 3 in Armada is appropriate.

I depends on where in the world you are as to how hard different ships are to get. It took me 3 years to get Rebel fighter pack 2,  The availability of most stuff in my part of the world has been Sporadic at best for the last 2 years.

The generic YT-1300 is only speed 2. So by you logic that the hyperspace speed is faster in Hans falcon but not sub-light means that the generic one should be the same speed. 
 

I don’t think Rebel players have an advantage ship wise aside from the Starhawk all Rebel large and medium ships all have less hull then their imperial counterparts. Rebels have very little in the way of dice manipulation, squadron commanders,  imperials have 25 unique officers to the Rebels 15, Imperial Admirals 13 to Rebels 11, Rebels get almost no use out of things like reserve hanger deck, No access to any experimental retrofit type upgrades, Can’t shoot at extreme range.

So Rebels don’t have it all their own way.

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1 hour ago, XR8rGREAT said:

I depends on where in the world you are as to how hard different ships are to get. It took me 3 years to get Rebel fighter pack 2,  The availability of most stuff in my part of the world has been Sporadic at best for the last 2 years.

The generic YT-1300 is only speed 2. So by you logic that the hyperspace speed is faster in Hans falcon but not sub-light means that the generic one should be the same speed. 
 

I don’t think Rebel players have an advantage ship wise aside from the Starhawk all Rebel large and medium ships all have less hull then their imperial counterparts. Rebels have very little in the way of dice manipulation, squadron commanders,  imperials have 25 unique officers to the Rebels 15, Imperial Admirals 13 to Rebels 11, Rebels get almost no use out of things like reserve hanger deck, No access to any experimental retrofit type upgrades, Can’t shoot at extreme range.

So Rebels don’t have it all their own way.

Yes, the availability of Armada expansions varies by region. I had no problem finding Rebel Fighter Squadrons II and it was in-stock in my area for the past 2 years, until the Black Friday and Christmas sales of 2019. Ever since then, most Armada expansions have been sold out. And there’ve been unannounced, seemingly random restocks the past 4 months, such as the Imperial Light Cruiser (Arquitens) expansion, and recently some Liberty and Phoenix Home expansions were restocked before selling out again. TBH I don’t think FFG’s supply problems are pandemic-related.

 

YT-1300 is a light freighter so it makes sense it wasn’t fast, hence why it’s only Speed 3. Han Solo (and Lando) heavily modified the Falcon, which included its sublight engines, but just because the Falcon is faster at sublight than a stock YT-1300 doesn’t mean the Falcon is fast compared to TIE Fighters and Star Destroyers.

 

What Rebels may lack in quantity they make up for in quality in terms of their ships, commanders, and officers.

Rieeken, Dodonna, Raddus, and Ackbar are all amazing Commanders that give Rebels a significant combat advantage. Ironically, the Empire doesn’t have commanders that boost its combat power to the same degree. Granted, Vader’s reroll ability is powerful, but he’s 36 points and must exhaust defense tokens for rerolls; whereas Ackbar’s ability to add 2 red dice to side arcs is far superior for only 2 points more.

The tournament stats show that the Rebels are more competitive than the Empire, so it seems Armada leans in their favour even though the Empire might have greater variety and more specialized ships.

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10 hours ago, Reavern said:

Yes, the availability of Armada expansions varies by region. I had no problem finding Rebel Fighter Squadrons II and it was in-stock in my area for the past 2 years, until the Black Friday and Christmas sales of 2019. Ever since then, most Armada expansions have been sold out. And there’ve been unannounced, seemingly random restocks the past 4 months, such as the Imperial Light Cruiser (Arquitens) expansion, and recently some Liberty and Phoenix Home expansions were restocked before selling out again. TBH I don’t think FFG’s supply problems are pandemic-related.

 

YT-1300 is a light freighter so it makes sense it wasn’t fast, hence why it’s only Speed 3. Han Solo (and Lando) heavily modified the Falcon, which included its sublight engines, but just because the Falcon is faster at sublight than a stock YT-1300 doesn’t mean the Falcon is fast compared to TIE Fighters and Star Destroyers.

 

What Rebels may lack in quantity they make up for in quality in terms of their ships, commanders, and officers.

Rieeken, Dodonna, Raddus, and Ackbar are all amazing Commanders that give Rebels a significant combat advantage. Ironically, the Empire doesn’t have commanders that boost its combat power to the same degree. Granted, Vader’s reroll ability is powerful, but he’s 36 points and must exhaust defense tokens for rerolls; whereas Ackbar’s ability to add 2 red dice to side arcs is far superior for only 2 points more.

The tournament stats show that the Rebels are more competitive than the Empire, so it seems Armada leans in their favour even though the Empire might have greater variety and more specialized ships.

Motti and Screed are also two very good and very much used commanders. Motti gives a even bigger health advantage to imperial ships. And screed guarantees a crit with attacks with is very good with all the different weapon upgrades that require a crit.

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Just now, XR8rGREAT said:

Motti and Screed are also two very good and very much used commanders. Motti gives a even bigger health advantage to imperial ships. And screed guarantees a crit with attacks with is very good with all the different weapon upgrades that require a crit.

What I meant by "combat advantages" was Commanders whose abilities are geared toward offense. Ackbar provides extra red dice to side arcs, Dodonna lets the player choose from 4 face-up damage cards, Rieeken keeps a destroy ship or squadron in battle until the end of a round, and Raddus allows you to hyperjump a ship into a favourable position.

Whereas Motti's ability is defensive in nature, and while it's certainly useful, considering that Rebel large ships have fewer hull points than Imperial ships, an Imp Commander that added dice to an attack pool would be more useful against the Rebels.

Screed's ability is offensive in nature, but it costs a die to change another die to a Crit face. Screed guarantees triggering a Special Crit ability, like Heavy Ion Emplacements or Overload Pulse, but sacrifices a die to do it; so IMO he isn't as useful as Ackbar or even Dodonna.

Vader's ability also has a downside -- although it can synergize with the Devastator title, so it's not so bad.

It wasn't until Romodi that the Empire received a Combat Commander without any downsides.

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Rodney-, you're moving the goalposts around quite a bit here. Ackbar's significant disadvantage removes the ability to double arc, and frequently involves splitting his firepower across different targets.  Dodonna doesn't significantly increase firepower at all. Rieeken is defensive in nature, which is what you use to dismiss Motti. 

You're also overlooking Sloane and Thrawn. 

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13 hours ago, Reavern said:

The tournament stats show that the Rebels are more competitive than the Empire, so it seems Armada leans in their favour even though the Empire might have greater variety and more specialized ships.

  All Top 50% Top 25% Top 10% Winners
Total Lists 752 398 214 100 42
           
Faction          
Rebels 42% 40% 37% 36% 33%
Empire 58% 60% 63% 64% 67%

Respectfully, I have to disagree with Rebels being more competitive.  Now, we won't really have information about the impact of the Starhawk & Onager until we have a Prime season where both ships are available for the full season, and people have created counter-tactics for them.  But as of the last Prime season, Imperials have a small advantage, in Prime-level tournaments.  Still, as they say, rebellions are built on hope.

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1 hour ago, Formynder4 said:

Rodney-, you're moving the goalposts around quite a bit here. Ackbar's significant disadvantage removes the ability to double arc, and frequently involves splitting his firepower across different targets.  Dodonna doesn't significantly increase firepower at all. Rieeken is defensive in nature, which is what you use to dismiss Motti. 

You're also overlooking Sloane and Thrawn. 

Roderick, not Rodney. (In honour of Rowdy Roddy Piper. R.I.P.)

Ackbar's restriction to side arcs is not much of a disadvantage considering that many Rebel ships favour side arcs and it's fairly difficult to achieve double arc. Also, it's thematic for the Ackbar Slash.

Dodonna isn't about increasing firepower; it's about the ability to choose the face-up damage card that a Crit to hull inflicts. You can really screw over an enemy ship by using Dodonna to choose the most situationally effective Damage Card. For example, I was recently dealt a Disengaged Fire Control card, which spoiled Romodi's special ability. (Granted, that was random bad luck; but an opponent could've chosen that card with Dodonna to screw over Romodi.) That's why I classify Dodonna as a Combat Commander.

If not combat, then how would you characterize Dodonna?

Rieekan is Combat-oriented IMO because he grants temporary invincibility before death, and the most useful thing a zombie ship/squadron can do is attack (and activate squadrons) before it dies at the end of the round. If Rieekan granted temporary invincibility to a ship/squadron that wasn't destroyed, or if there was any possibility of the destroyed ship/squadron saving itself, such as revealing a Repair command, landing on the Space Station, or Repair Crews repairing it, then Rieekan's ability could be considered Defensive. But it's not. The ship or squadron is doomed; Rieeken just allows it to doing something before it dies.

I don't consider Sloane's special abilities to be Combat-oriented because squadron Accuracy's can spend a target's defense tokens -- rendering them vulnerable to subsequent attacks -- but her ability doesn't inflict actual damage. I suppose her Crit reroll against a ship could be considered offensive. Regardless, I'd classify Sloane as a Squadron Commander, not Combat.

Thrawn's special ability is Command-oriented, not Combat.

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Posted (edited)

A Large Ship broadsider for the Empire would be a welcome addition, something that acts as heavy muscle for an Arquitens centered fleet. I have used Arquitens and ISDs together but a lot of the time the 2 ships want/need very different things.

Maybe FFG could create the official look of the qaz-class Star Destroyer and make that a broadside ship.

Edited by Piratical Moustache

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1 hour ago, Piratical Moustache said:

A Large Ship broadsider for the Empire would be a welcome addition, something that acts as heavy muscle for an Arquitens centered fleet. I have used Arquitens and ISDs together but a lot of the time the 2 ships want/need very different things.

Maybe FFG could create the official look of the qaz-class Star Destroyer and make that a broadside ship.

I would definitely back that up. ISDs and Arqs have an odd relationship ofr flight and fire zone patterns. Not really sure what ship would fit the bill, but I suppose it is a *new* design.

 

I think the trick with Rebels getting a medium ship is finding a role the ADMKII doesn't already fulfill. I would also throw in thr MC30, as though it's technically a small ship, other than hull it's stated more like a Medium.  I suppose something on the tougher side could work, but I'm unsure what would be good to differentiate it. Maybe an Ion boat?

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4278h.png 4276h.png

These are my old MC-40 concepts, but I would probably move a die from the front of the cruiser to the rear along with adding a Salvo token for an interesting brawler. Add in a title for the carrier and maybe a title for the cruiser that adds some hull or something.

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4 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

Some of the stuff EC Henry fleshed out would be pretty fantastic.

 

I'd be in favour of the Mon Cal mystery ship "Sphaerolana", which could be a medium ship since it's 600 metres long.

Perhaps FFG could re-appropriate the "MC40a" ship class and give it to the Spharolana instead, because the MC40a from X-Wing vs TIE Fighter is all kind of ugly.

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20 minutes ago, Reavern said:

I'd be in favour of the Mon Cal mystery ship "Sphaerolana", which could be a medium ship since it's 600 metres long.

Perhaps FFG could re-appropriate the "MC40a" ship class and give it to the Spharolana instead, because the MC40a from X-Wing vs TIE Fighter is all kind of ugly.

Idk. I would rather have something a bit more unique than another pickle. 

710x528_15282023_9070860_1561494375.jpg 710x528_15676753_9224194_1525477047.jpg

I am a fan of both versions though I think the regular version (on the left) works nice. I got a model of it and it looks good. Though the model itself seems to fit a small ship more than a medium. 

 

 

 

Oh and I found this cool design made in lego too https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/142819-moc-mon-calamari-mc35-destroyer-escort/

 

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4 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

4278h.png 4276h.png

These are my old MC-40 concepts, but I would probably move a die from the front of the cruiser to the rear along with adding a Salvo token for an interesting brawler. Add in a title for the carrier and maybe a title for the cruiser that adds some hull or something.

I like your concept with a few exceptions. What about making it a little more unique, for example, like a blue dice-only ship? Or almost only blue dice ship? IMO the game in general lacks blue dice heavy ships, and the ones are exist are built around a little bit utilizing the ion cannon slot.  It could be a baby battleship 😄. I miss those... 

All the blue dice ships like to have an ion cannon installed, (which is usually always HIE, sadly). I know thematically blue dice should represent ion cannons, but what about making it a little more like secondary armament on real battleships? Or shorter ranged guns? Or I guess I'd be happy if I saw ion cannons apart from HIE and LS. I know the existing ones arent that useful though. 😞 

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18 hours ago, sasska said:

I like your concept with a few exceptions. What about making it a little more unique, for example, like a blue dice-only ship? Or almost only blue dice ship? IMO the game in general lacks blue dice heavy ships, and the ones are exist are built around a little bit utilizing the ion cannon slot.  It could be a baby battleship 😄. I miss those... 

All the blue dice ships like to have an ion cannon installed, (which is usually always HIE, sadly). I know thematically blue dice should represent ion cannons, but what about making it a little more like secondary armament on real battleships? Or shorter ranged guns? Or I guess I'd be happy if I saw ion cannons apart from HIE and LS. I know the existing ones arent that useful though. 😞 

I mean.... You could always use the carrier variant for an ion cannon ship? It has mostly blue dice like you recommended, an Ion Cannon slot, and can throw on a salvo token with Local Fire Control. 

I kinda want to add a non unique title that adds hull to the ship.

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Posted (edited)

I went with this version of the MC40, one version as a blue die carrier, 1 as a light combatant, I like the options they have now with the Exp Shield Tech and aux shield team, or with Local Fire control....but maybe the double black on the escort should move to double red...

9721h (6).jpg

9724h (5).jpg

Edited by Cap116
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