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ForceSensitive

Finally started TRoS...

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I paused it at 0:15:34. Holy space balls what is this!?

Quick catch-up. Got myself the trial version of D+. Intend to watch all of season 7CW(on e7 I think?), Mandalorian(on e4), and so help me Yoda the movie Tangled as many times as I can before I cancel it before taking a charge. Might get to live action Aladdin, we'll see.

Back to 9. It's... Abrupt? Like, I've heard the story and watched the spoiler reviews. I braced, legit braced, myself for this. And oh my good Lord what is happening? I'm fifteen minutes in and looking at my third glass of cab whispering "why is the wine almost gone?".

I feel like I just watched three episodic shorts at 2X speed. I'm not even sure I caught all the dialogue. Honestly if it weren't for the spoilers I watched, I'm not sure I'd know what's happening now... Maybe that was the wine... Nope I don't think I know what's happening anyway.

Fun fact though. If you pause the movie at exactly 15:34 you get the treat of staring at the grumpy cat version of a Mon Calamari. Which is pretty funny actually.

Anyway. Just thought it was worth a giggle. And real talk I needed a breather cuz that was a fire hose... And a moment to open the next bottle. Wish me luck lol.

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Honestly, haven't finished it yet, I got to the 45 minute mark or so when I paused it to kinda process it for a moment. Upon realizing I was only 45 minutes in I said screw it and went to bed. This morning (it's my weekend) I made breakfast and got about another 30 minutes in but much of that was more w t f moments and confused head rolls. Which did get a good crack out of the neck, so I had that going for me, which is nice. 

I don't know man, it's reeeeaaallly bad. Like you said B-movie with a ridiculous budget. Some of the like 'iconic'moments people like to reference now I don't even get why they bother because nothing is landing with much impact. Like I saw the Threepio death and yes I knew it was happening but still was thinking like 'i don't get why these interactions are happening.' I just got to finish it... In time... With heavier alcohol. 😅🤣

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Okay. I finished it. Took four sessions, and a few pours of suntory on the rocks but I finished it. Yeah, it was the worst movie I've seen since...I don't even know. I don't want the say it was THEE worst but holy... Wow it might've been. 

Way too insane on pace, no substance to the plot, no meaning that I could walk away with. I sneezed at one point and missed two lines of dialogue and had to rewind (seasonal allergies) so thank goodness I waited too I had it in a rewindable format. But y'know, there's been a ton of bad talk on this thing. Honestly, I had assumed the YouTubers and review writers were being a over theatrical to make their points, and now I see they were just being honest, if not trying to actually be polite about it.

But here's some things I did like. I tried to be positive about it okay? Here's what I did get.

Ships. I'm excited to see all sorts of neat high def designs just floating about in backgrounds and what that could mean for the future. Admittedly, disappointed that the whole just reused ISD 1s.

The most unnerving acted dead body award goes to Ridley. It was freaky. I'm still not sure if they used some CGI to make her eyes look dead still. If she pulled that on me in real life, I'd have called 911. As always, brilliant performance of a terrible script. She did alright throughout but that dead thing freaked me out. 

A few good gags? I think my favorite bit by a mile was 'you were a spice runner?' exchange they had back and forth. That was cute and bizarrely poignant.

Annnnd that's entirely more text than it was worth. Cheers. Back to the Mandalorian. Also finished CW, which was amaze-balls.

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I haven't dipped my wick in the Rise or Skywalker well.

Normally I'm all for giving something a try and formulating your own opinion, but my hivemind reached a (highly critical) consensus on the sequel films after suffering through the horrors of The Last Jedi, and from what I've heard it's unlikely to be changed by similarly subjecting myself to The Return Of Jar Jar.

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You're not far off. Many reviews I saw said something to the effect of "if you didn't like 8 you'll probably actually like 9." Which is precisely where I was, and I wanted to form my own view. So I had some small hope that it wouldn't be that bad compared to 8. Honestly it was worse.

I'm just glad I didn't pay the D for it technically while I'm in my trial month. And I low key consider getting to watch S7CW and Mando as my dissatisfied customer rebate for what I had invested in them before the Ep8 travesty. I paid in, I had to collect somewhere. 

Anywho, Mando is okay I guess. 

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1 hour ago, Jo Jo said:

At least TLJ is a more competently made movie in comparison. While boring and dumb, you at least know what is going on in Ep. 8. 

I have to agree here. TFA is a solid movie as well, but doesn't do anything interesting. While I hated TLJ when it came out, it might actually be the best of the three simply because it had an understandable story and wasn't mostly a retread of what came before it.

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I don't know if I'd go so far as 'understandable' in 8, mostly because character motivations and actions were just so mind bogglingly at the level of WUT!? But yeah, at least they used full sentences and breathed between them.

Wow. We're at the point where full sentences was the bar. In the words of Obi-wan: 'Good job'.

Other thing I realized today was how much more I like JJs ideas at least of the characters over Rians. Mostly Poe's, save where he went a little Gary stu from time to time, but all of them have a place in that statement. Like Rey ALMOST had an arc in 9. Poe had his sharp tongue back. Finn felt conflicted and like he was almost trying to figure stuff out. To me in retrospect, all the characters in 8 feel the way Hamill described his Luke as Jake Skywalker. Like they were very different people. Ep 8 now has Bae Skype-walker, KN-7812 as Ken, and Joe Dameron in my book. 

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2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

...Other thing I realized today was how much more I like JJs ideas at least of the characters over Rians... 

I saw a FB post the other day with a marketing pic of Finn with the blue lightsaber.  Basically asking "what happened to this guy?!"

It really, really was such a tragic waste.

I know he got spine whooped at the end of 7 and was clearly in need of recovery (lol), but they should have come up with some way to send him to Rey & Luke in 8, and have Like sense something in him.

His arc in 7 is tied up with Rey.  He wants to help rescue her from the First Order, he tries to protect her from Kylo.  In 8, he gets sent away on mindless busy work.

Even if he stole a Rebel ship and went to warn Rey of what was happening.

Finn's journey was the biggest failure of the sequels for me.

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On 5/22/2020 at 1:50 AM, ForceSensitive said:

, no meaning that I could walk away with.

That was apart from a crapload of other points (Ridiculous starting point for the story, ridculously stupid McGuffin hunt, which is contradicting itself; Palpatine acting like an clueless idiot, waste of old characters, meaningless new characters, stupid JJ cameo - of course -  being the Deu ex machina saving the day; Disney magic superglue glueing the mask, where there is no way to ever got it back from an exploded Superdreadnought, only to wear like 2 minutes, what a waste fo time which could have been used for better pacing elsewhere; pacing, camera angles, no sense of any physics, military tactics, time or space, contradicting lore) my main issue with TRoS:

There are 2 messages/"meanings"

-Sacrifice is not real

Chewbacca dies, Rey learns a very important lesson. Oh right, some 2 minutes later. He was on another transport.
Zorii Bliss sacrifies for Poe her ONLY chance to get out of Kijimi. She and the whole planet gets blown up. Oh right, later she mysteriously and
unexplained got off the planet, in time, nonetheless together with Babu Frik.
C3PO sacrifies everything by giving up his whole identity and memory - basically he dies. Only to be backuped later.
Is this some frikking videogame, where you just reload or respawn - what is the MESSAGE here? Sacrifices should mean SOMETHING. Totally worthless cinema.

 

Apart from the whole starting point of TRoS undoing Luke's and Vader's sacrifices in RoTJ!

 

-The main message of this film:

What were Star Wars films about:

The OT: control yourself. Sacrifices. Love is stronger than hate. etc.
TLJ: Failure is there to teach you, stand up again! And: Anyone can rise to
greatness.

TRoS: You have to be born into the right family. If you are so lucky, then, and only then, you are destined for greatness. Genetics are everything.
Everything is destined beforehand. 

Is this what you want to teach our children???

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Y'know,  your right M. I think I was thinking that and I just didn't want to accept it. Mother of Yoda. They did turn it into a full fledged bonafide Disney film: You are what your born to be and that's it. I'm sitting here with the most sad morning coffee I've ever had. Rey is a princess. Of course she is.

Which is even more annoying because the one interesting thing I liked in 8 was DJ and the corporate greed angle. It was sorta out of place for SW, but it was there. Now the 'don't join' message is contradicted by the 'destiny is genetic' bit.

Well pudu. I think I preferred thinking it had no meaning over it just being a terrible one 😂

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6 hours ago, Managarmr said:

-The main message of this film:

What were Star Wars films about:

The OT: control yourself. Sacrifices. Love is stronger than hate. etc.
TLJ: Failure is there to teach you, stand up again! And: Anyone can rise to
greatness.

TRoS: You have to be born into the right family. If you are so lucky, then, and only then, you are destined for greatness. Genetics are everything.
Everything is destined beforehand. 

Is this what you want to teach our children???

This so much.  OT even has some of that family lines stuff, but it doesn't dwell on it as much.  As a result, the folks who loved 7 and 8 (we do exist!) tended to love about Rey is the way that  she's fulfilling the promise of what Luke Skywalker seemed to be.  He seemed like just an ordinary farm kid, but he does have that legacy.  Rey, however, came from nowhere, had no connections, except the ones she made herself.  She went from Rey from Nowhere, to Rey from the Resistance, and that's enough.

But LOLNOPE.  Gotta be Palpatines.  And hints in other sources the Jannah is Lando's daughter, because all black people in space need to be related to each other.

At least I still have Rebels, where no one is related to anyone else.

6 hours ago, Managarmr said:

ridculously stupid McGuffin hunt

A map that leads to... a second map.  After the McGuffin was a map in the previous JJ film.

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7 hours ago, Managarmr said:

That was apart from a crapload of other points (Ridiculous starting point for the story, ridculously stupid McGuffin hunt, which is contradicting itself; Palpatine acting like an clueless idiot, waste of old characters, meaningless new characters, stupid JJ cameo - of course -  being the Deu ex machina saving the day; Disney magic superglue glueing the mask, where there is no way to ever got it back from an exploded Superdreadnought, only to wear like 2 minutes, what a waste fo time which could have been used for better pacing elsewhere; pacing, camera angles, no sense of any physics, military tactics, time or space, contradicting lore) my main issue with TRoS:

There are 2 messages/"meanings"

-Sacrifice is not real

Chewbacca dies, Rey learns a very important lesson. Oh right, some 2 minutes later. He was on another transport.
Zorii Bliss sacrifies for Poe her ONLY chance to get out of Kijimi. She and the whole planet gets blown up. Oh right, later she mysteriously and
unexplained got off the planet, in time, nonetheless together with Babu Frik.
C3PO sacrifies everything by giving up his whole identity and memory - basically he dies. Only to be backuped later.
Is this some frikking videogame, where you just reload or respawn - what is the MESSAGE here? Sacrifices should mean SOMETHING. Totally worthless cinema.

 

Apart from the whole starting point of TRoS undoing Luke's and Vader's sacrifices in RoTJ!

 

-The main message of this film:

What were Star Wars films about:

The OT: control yourself. Sacrifices. Love is stronger than hate. etc.
TLJ: Failure is there to teach you, stand up again! And: Anyone can rise to
greatness.

TRoS: You have to be born into the right family. If you are so lucky, then, and only then, you are destined for greatness. Genetics are everything.
Everything is destined beforehand. 

Is this what you want to teach our children???

Thank you.

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On 5/28/2020 at 4:09 PM, theBitterFig said:

This so much.  OT even has some of that family lines stuff, but it doesn't dwell on it as much.  As a result, the folks who loved 7 and 8 (we do exist!) tended to love about Rey is the way that  she's fulfilling the promise of what Luke Skywalker seemed to be.  He seemed like just an ordinary farm kid, but he does have that legacy.  Rey, however, came from nowhere, had no connections, except the ones she made herself.  She went from Rey from Nowhere, to Rey from the Resistance, and that's enough.

But LOLNOPE.  Gotta be Palpatines.  And hints in other sources the Jannah is Lando's daughter, because all black people in space need to be related to each other.

At least I still have Rebels, where no one is related to anyone else.

A map that leads to... a second map.  After the McGuffin was a map in the previous JJ film.

To be fair, 7 at least presented both Rey AND Finn as potential heroes.  The focus was on both of them, from the start, throughout the film and into the finale.

8 dropped Finn from the equation, relegating him from a main player to a side quest character.

Then 9 did... whatever the **** it was that 9 did.  "Rey, I want to tell you something...

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@theBitterFig lol I didn't realize it before, your right all the maguffins were maps, or a 'guide' character, in both JJ films. Holy Banthas that's hilarious. 

Here's a map, psyche it's a piece of one, get directions from this person, here's another map, here's a person to teach you stuff... Oh did you get the book that had the image of the map in it? Okay good so go get that map, oh it got broke, go get the other one then. Okay that gets you a map...

This is like the worst DnD campaign imaginable. I haven't found this many maps since Zelda Ocarina of Time.

@DR4CO Thanks and your welcome 😁

Back to all. I really missed that we didn't get to see a better story for Finn too. But also for Rose. It occurred to me the other day that her vulnerability and sadness for her sister dying would've been a good base for being a Sensitive herself that went Dark. If they wanted to reeeeaaallly push that equality thing having two Darksiders and two Lightsiders, two males two females, a little racial diversity in each pair,...2v2 lightsaber fight at some point (drool). Okay not lying I'm really just trying to get a good 2v2 lightsaber fight in there 😅

As it is with Finn and (begrudgingly understandably with how they previously treated her character) Rose getting sidelined it feels like it's still a 'White' story. If I'm not much mistaken, that means we had one character with relevance who was not white and Force Sensitive in 9 movies, and That's Mace. Who is only in 3 of them. I'll give you this though, they still leave the door pretty well open that Finn CAN feel the Force at least. But the fact that it's not confirmed in the movies themselves is a major letdown. Getting a sweet new Jedi who was comfortable in some kickath mandalorian/trooper style armor would have been SWEET.👌 Also something that was in old McQuarrie concepts too. And a little callback to Obi-Wan in his clone wars armor. Also a better fight scene against Phasma in the final movie. Awesome trooper vs trooper action would've been nice.

I guess just really in light of current events I'm feeling it a bit more acutely that we spent so much time discussing the Force being male or female or both that we really missed out on the most important part: The Force should be in all of us. Sorry to wax political there but I couldn't stand at the rallies and March a few days ago, and not also be real about my opinion here as well. Disney has a bad reputation for whitewash antics and after such a good start, to blow it is a real letdown. Like @Managarmr said, the genetics thing isn't what we should be teaching our children.

/Soapbox. 

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54 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

@theBitterFig 

I guess just really in light of current events I'm feeling it a bit more acutely that we spent so much time discussing the Force being male or female or both that we really missed out on the most important part: The Force should be in all of us.

Like @Managarmr said, the genetics thing isn't what we should be teaching our children.

Indeed.

In fact, there's an argument to be made that the prequels were actually far more progressive than the sequels.

OK, so there's the Clone army.  And some really bad racial caricatures.  But there were also Jedi from all races and genders.  You didn't have to be a Skywalker to be special.

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3 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

To be fair, 7 at least presented both Rey AND Finn as potential heroes.  The focus was on both of them, from the start, throughout the film and into the finale.

8 dropped Finn from the equation, relegating him from a main player to a side quest character.

Then 9 did... whatever the **** it was that 9 did.  "Rey, I want to tell you something...

John Boyega got robbed.  Imagine how great an actual Stormtrooper Rebellion could have been.

john-boyega.jpg?w=681&h=383&crop=1

The sidelining of Finn is one of very few criticisms of 8 that actually lands with me.  I like that in 9, Finn "just knew things" through the Force.  I think that was cool, and wish more had gone in that direction.  I wish Leia in the sequels, and Yoda in the prequels, were shown to be the sort of Jedi who weren't lightsaber Jedi, but folks who relate to the Force in more subtle ways.  Finn would have been great in that list.  However, that's like a nice little garnish on the steaming dish of such-and-such that Ep 9 was on the whole.

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19 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

And some really bad racial caricatures.  But there were also Jedi from all races and genders.  You didn't have to be a Skywalker to be special.

I keep thinking of what DJ BenHaMeen of the https://forallnerds.com/ podcast said about The Phantom Menace (paraphrasing) First you have the trade federation folks.  Then you have the Gungans.  Then you have Watto.  "Who you making this movie for, George?"  There are at least a few other issue with the prequels (absolutely zero understanding of how a pregnant woman's body works, for example https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/53d4db/womens-healthcare-star-wars ).

That said, Boba Fett is Maori now.  That's pretty sweet.

1 hour ago, ForceSensitive said:

we really missed out on the most important part: The Force should be in all of us.

Trials of the Darksaber is my favorite episode of Rebels.  Why?  A large part of it is Kanan filling in the lore the Force.

He repeats what Yoda said in Empire, and what Luke would say in Last Jedi, that the Force flows through all living beings.  There's a lot more depth on how someone who isn't a Jedi--such as Sabine--relates to the Force than we often see.

I just wish this got remembered more, particularly by the folks who make the movies.  Chirrut and Baze are amazing, but still.

 

//

 

I also loved the Lightsaber aspects.  When Kanan explains Lightsabers... well... lemme quote it exactly. "Energy constantly flows through the crystal. You're not fighting with a simple blade as much as you are directing a current of power. Your thoughts, your actions, they become energy. They flow through the crystal as well, and become a part of the blade."  This isn't at all incompatible with what Yoda says about the force being an energy field, but working through the implications of that statement.  I like that it upends the old Legends line that "anyone who isn't a Jedi who tries to use a lightsaber cuts off their arm" which I always thought was foolish.  But it seems part-and-parcel of the democratization of the Force.  

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On 6/4/2020 at 1:57 PM, theBitterFig said:

 I like that it upends the old Legends line that "anyone who isn't a Jedi who tries to use a lightsaber cuts off their arm" which I always thought was foolish.  But it seems part-and-parcel of the democratization of the Force.  

Everyone seems to forget Han gutting a tauntaun and not doing himself any damage :)

I always believed it had more to do with the blade having little to no weight, and the Force aided the user to have enough spacial awareness to 'know' where the blade was at any given point during a fight... but not impossible for non-Force users to use.. just more challenging. (unless of course the saber's switch was internal and  actuated by a force user.

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