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Vennie lists...?

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5 hours ago, Tyhar7 said:

Essentially the text on the cloaking device card only applies to the ship the card is placed on. So Vennie or another ship in the list won't have to roll to lose it .

Plus there is nothing stopping you from having 2 cloak tokens in play that are juggling around your list.

My other list is using similar tactics is a Paige, Nien and Kaz list doing the same thing. 

On that list Paige has intimidation and is Blocking and bombing while cloaked. She is also removing the disarm token from Kaz's slamming, as she can't shoot anyway. Also doing the same for Nien if he black one's. Additionally she can pass off her stress to Nien who can dump it quite efficiently. Plus her and Nien being I5 means he can fire and then she can trade the cloak to him so she can fire.

Also with that list it's good to get two cloak tokens out early to cloak Nien. With 4 defense dice he can get in close, decloak for position and start using red manuever PA shenanigans.

This is a thread for Vennie but some of the same stuff may apply with some other I2's.

With Paige can you launch both bombs?  I’m assuming no since her card just says drop.

 

 You can drop one and then launch the 2nd though?  

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Oh ... hey, been away from the forum for a bit @gennataos so didn't see this until this morning. 

There's a lot of fun ways to build out Vennie. The way I fly him is with Bastian as an M9-G8 carrier, and then an A-Wing. Had my best success with Lulo, but since then, Zizi has appeared, and I've had my head turned that way. 

So my 'standard' Vennie build that I go to is this: 

Vennie (56)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Veteran Turret Gunner (10)
Paige Tico (7)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)

Zizi Tlo (40)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Lieutenant Bastian (47)
M9-G8 (7)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Total: 199

I've had a number of discussions in the past about my choice of Paige over Rey Gunner, and I have played with both. With this many points sunk into a single ship, I need to be getting two shots a turn. So pairing VTG with Paige allows Vennie to shoot twice a turn, every turn, with a consistent 270 degree arc. M9-G8 covers blanks on offence and you can leverage the A-Wing arc to trigger Vennie's ability if ships don't fall into his own turret. Rey gunner can be outflown removing the ability to double tap. I find that Rey is a more defensive option, and certainly it makes the very hard to kill Vennie even harder to kill with a force point. It also removes the need for M9-G8 to deal with your blank results. 

My preference for Bastian is the target lock shenanigans that can ensure from him. Either Bastian can acquire a lock for a double modded kill shot after Vennie has tagged someone, or you can drop a lock on an opponent ace to force him to reroll away his crits/hits. The action economy is crazy good.  The problem Bastian has is that he dies.  With no access to heroic, and a singe focus, he can be easily bullied by most other ships.  One squadmate has overcome this by switching in a Red Squadron Expert with Herioc to keep M9-G8 on the table for longer. It seems strong, but I'm not sure it is worth losing the initiative parity with Vennie and the TL shenanigans. 

Regarding the A-Wing choice. I'm not convinced that Zizi is the best choice. I might still like Lulo in the spot. Having the quasi 3 dice gun really helps to push damage when needed. The issue now is that he is more expensive so it actually worth chasing down. Zizi is very defensively strong though, and keeping him alive to maintain Vennie as an unkillable monster is tempting.

This list sets a really tough puzzle for opponents to unpick, and many people are unfamiliar with it, so if you can jump on top of the triggers (they are many and varied) you can ride this list to a comfortable 4-2.  Top players know how to approach it, so pushing on from there comes down to doing the unexpected plays (3 bank over a rock into a pattern analyser focus is a favourite) to make the predictable space whale a bit more erratic.

Another list I've played about with was taken by another UK Vennie fan - Ryan Sharpe of the weekend Warlords to win a HST. Stealth Device Vennie with 3 A-Wings in support. It's not a super-vennie build, with no VTG but he acts as a focal point while the A-Wings buzz around.

I'll have a bit more of a think over the next while and see if I can think of anything else useful to say 😄

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Gokuja04 said:

With Paige can you launch both bombs?  I’m assuming no since her card just says drop.

 

 You can drop one and then launch the 2nd though?  

Paige: After you drop a device, you may spend 1 charge to drop an additional device.

Trajectory Simulator: During the System Phase, if you would drop or launch a bomb, you may launch it using the [5 ] template instead.

Yes - Paige pilot can launch both bombs in the system phase.

Edited by Rich P

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8 hours ago, Gokuja04 said:

With Paige can you launch both bombs?  I’m assuming no since her card just says drop.

 

 You can drop one and then launch the 2nd though?  

 

3 minutes ago, Rich P said:

You can only launch in the system phase (Traj Sim card) so Paige allows you to drop a bomb in the engagement phase

Sorry Rich believe he is talking about thr Paige pilot not the crew card. 

Her ability reads.

"After you drop and device you may spend a charge to drop an additional device"

Goku yes you can drop and then use Paige's ability to launch a device, as long as it's in the systems phase.

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Just remembered this thing that I flew a couple of times ... I call it the token explosion ... and it works by generating Vennie mods irrespective of if he gets bumped or not. The Ronith slot can be filled with any 4th ship, I used to have a generic T-70 in the spot as this Vennie doesn't quite have the burden of being 50% of the list so needing protection via the A-Wing turret.  

This works in Short because Finn co-ordinates Nodin who then proceeds to take up to 4 actions! 

  1. Co-ordinated action
  2. Ability action from being coordinated (to co-ordinate Vennie)
  3. Ability action from co-ordinating
  4. Regular action!

Then PZ-4CO allows for a focus to be passed later if needed later. There's a lot of wiggle room in the list for playstyle / specific upgrades.

Is this better than having Cova/Leia ... maybe not ... and weirdly I found myself overloaded with tokens unspent each turn (too many actions!) but it hits hard, albeit it is pretty slow moving and doesn't turn around well at all. 

Vennie (56)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Veteran Turret Gunner (10)

Finn (29)
Heroic (1)
C-3PO (6)

Nodin Chavdri (36)
Korr Sella (6)
PZ-4CO (6)
R4 Astromech (2)

Ronith Blario (34)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

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On 5/22/2020 at 1:25 PM, Tyhar7 said:

Essentially the text on the cloaking device card only applies to the ship the card is placed on. So Vennie or another ship in the list won't have to roll to lose it .

Plus there is nothing stopping you from having 2 cloak tokens in play that are juggling around your list.

My other list is using similar tactics is a Paige, Nien and Kaz list doing the same thing. 

On that list Paige has intimidation and is Blocking and bombing while cloaked. She is also removing the disarm token from Kaz's slamming, as she can't shoot anyway. Also doing the same for Nien if he black one's. Additionally she can pass off her stress to Nien who can dump it quite efficiently. Plus her and Nien being I5 means he can fire and then she can trade the cloak to him so she can fire.

Also with that list it's good to get two cloak tokens out early to cloak Nien. With 4 defense dice he can get in close, decloak for position and start using red manuever PA shenanigans.

This is a thread for Vennie but some of the same stuff may apply with some other I2's.

It’s fun with Rey as well.

 What’s great is I believe you can get above the 6 green dice max.  It applies to forming your defense pool.  So say vinnie has Finn and SD and it’s range 3 obs.  2 from agi and SD, 2 for cloak, 1 rng 3, and 1 obs For 6 green dice rolled.  Then can add Finn and vinnies ability for 7-8 dice

 seems kind of rediculous lol

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@Rich P - I pulled Vennie out tonight to start messing around with the new points.  I took your template and slotted in Jess in place of Bastian along with Zizi.  I played it like complete crap, I have no idea what I'm doing yet, got Jess killed super early and only made it close because bombs herded stuff around.  I usually don't make decisions on one bad game, but I didn't like Jess.  She dies just about as fast as Bastian, if I'm trying to make use of her ability.  

That game got me thinking about what else I could slot in as an M9-G8 carrier and I started thinking about Kaz.  He's way cheaper than any T-70, can SLAM out of trouble to keep M9-G8 up, and can usually still be a decent gun.  The absence of a reliable gun, though, made me look at L'ulo instead of Zizi.  I agree that Zizi may not be the right choice, regardless.  People will take out the M9-G8 carrier, then probably focus on Vennie if Zizi is the A-Wing.

I'm not sure on the builds, but I think this is my next try.  I like the Hyperfuel to ensure Kaz can't be reliably blocked, to keep M9-G8 in play.  It's also possible for either Kaz or L'ulo to close out of a game.  Any thoughts (not just @Rich P)!

Vennie (54)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Veteran Turret Gunner (7)
Paige Tico (7)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)
Delayed Fuses (1)

Kazuda Xiono (40)
Heroic (1)
M9-G8 (7)
Coaxium Hyperfuel (2)
Targeting Computer (3)
Kaz's Fireball (2)

L’ulo L’ampar (43)
Heroic (1)
Lone Wolf (5)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

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Is three ship mandatory? :D Because these fits. 

(40) Kazuda Xiono [Fireball]

(4) R5 Astromech
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

(43) L'ulo L'ampar [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 44

(29) Finn [Resistance Transport Pod]
(1) Heroic
Points: 30

(54) Vennie [MG-100 StarFortress]
(8) Perceptive Copilot
(5) Proton Bombs
(7) Veteran Turret Gunner
(6) Trajectory Simulator
Points: 80

Total points: 199

Trims out the fat while still holding the same idea of double tap and trajectory simulator Vennie. 

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with the drop in points you can have every upgrade slot filled with a vennie and every one useful. this is a list a came up with not tried it yet but may be a bit of fun to try once or twice. I doubt this list is good or could/would win any tournaments or local events. 

 

Vennie (54)    
    Trajectory Simulator (6)    
    Pattern Analyzer (5)    
    Perceptive Copilot (8)    
    Veteran Turret Gunner (7)    
    Rey (14)    
    Seismic Charges (3)    
    Proton Bombs (5)    
    Delayed Fuses (1)    
    
Ship total: 103  Half Points: 52  Threshold: 6    
    
Finn (29)    
    Heroic (1)    
    Pattern Analyzer (5)    
    Perceptive Copilot (8)    
    
Ship total: 43  Half Points: 22  Threshold: 2    
    
Lieutenant Bastian (47)    
    M9-G8 (7)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 54  Half Points: 27  Threshold: 4    
    
    
Total: 200    
    

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Anyone considered using M9-G8 on Jess instead? 

She doesn't need to lock because of her ability, so she can lock Vennie in the opening turn and forget about it. She's more durable than Bastian, and in the late game she can use M9-G8 as her ability will no longer trigger?

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8 hours ago, Flurpy said:

Is three ship mandatory? :D Because these fits. 

(40) Kazuda Xiono [Fireball]

(4) R5 Astromech
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

(43) L'ulo L'ampar [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 44

(29) Finn [Resistance Transport Pod]
(1) Heroic
Points: 30

(54) Vennie [MG-100 StarFortress]
(8) Perceptive Copilot
(5) Proton Bombs
(7) Veteran Turret Gunner
(6) Trajectory Simulator
Points: 80

Total points: 199

Trims out the fat while still holding the same idea of double tap and trajectory simulator Vennie. 

I don't think it's mandatory, but I think once you venture into this territory with Vennie, you might as well go with a different ship (Rey?).

3 hours ago, 01jbell said:

with the drop in points you can have every upgrade slot filled with a vennie and every one useful. this is a list a came up with not tried it yet but may be a bit of fun to try once or twice. I doubt this list is good or could/would win any tournaments or local events. 

Vennie (54)    
    Trajectory Simulator (6)    
    Pattern Analyzer (5)    
    Perceptive Copilot (8)    
    Veteran Turret Gunner (7)    
    Rey (14)    
    Seismic Charges (3)    
    Proton Bombs (5)    
    Delayed Fuses (1)    
    
Ship total: 103  Half Points: 52  Threshold: 6    
    
Finn (29)    
    Heroic (1)    
    Pattern Analyzer (5)    
    Perceptive Copilot (8)    
    
Ship total: 43  Half Points: 22  Threshold: 2    
    
Lieutenant Bastian (47)    
    M9-G8 (7)    
    Integrated S-Foils (0)    
    
Ship total: 54  Half Points: 27  Threshold: 4    
    
    
Total: 200    

I'm not sure if an A-Wing is required to help Vennie trigger his ability.  My initial thought is "yes".

1 hour ago, Tyhar7 said:

Anyone considered using M9-G8 on Jess instead? 

She doesn't need to lock because of her ability, so she can lock Vennie in the opening turn and forget about it. She's more durable than Bastian, and in the late game she can use M9-G8 as her ability will no longer trigger?

That's what @Rich P first suggested as a change to his Vennie/Bastian/Zizi list.  I tried it last night and I think it's just "okay" because she's not as tanky as people think.  She can still die shockingly early.

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1 hour ago, gennataos said:

If you do that, Vennie has to drop the bombing.  I think I like the bombs.

Nah, it's keeping the bombs.

But it's a fairly light Rey, which I'm thinking is not your preference.

This is kind of shooting from the hip, but here's the gist:

 

Vennie (54) w/ Proton bombs (5), Seismic charges (3), Trajectory simulator (6), Paige Tico (7) [75]

Rey (68) w/ Rey's Millennium Falcon (2), Contraband cybernetics (2) [72]

Blue Squadron Rookie (42) w/ S-foils (0), M9-G8 (7) [49]

 

This currently leaves you 4 more points.

I guess the question is are Rey and Vennie too light to do what you want them to?

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I thought about Kaz, @gennataos the need to layer more points into him makes me wonder if he is worth it.  Needing 10 points for M9-G8 plus Targeting computer. ... 

I do accept that Jess is only slightly more tanky than Bastian. I've not had a chance to try her yet, but she's on my list ... the theory with the T-70 is that you present them at R3 while Vennie is at R2 so they are a less good target ... or just fly them away for the first engage while you smash Vennie in headlong. Their primary purpose in the initial engage is to give Vennie rerolls. Any damage they sling after that is gravy. 

A squadmate did ok subbing in a heroic Red Sq for Bastian to keep M9 alive longer, and that makes me wonder if Joph Seastriker is a good slot in. He won't die to focus fire, and is cheap. Plus he takes heroic too to mitigate those blank outs that kill Bastian.

I think Zizi vs LuLo is a choice ... Lulo can really close out games if he lives to end game, my original success with the archetype was with Lu'lo and he was the ship who closed out the games against swarms. Zizi can do it, but struggles against hardier ships particularly 3 green ships which are fairly common right now between scyks and inquisitors/ties. I think I'm talking myself back into Lulo ...

I might give this list a bash though - unsure if the last 2 points are best on crackshot, or on black one for Joph ..

Vennie (54)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Veteran Turret Gunner (7)
Paige Tico (7)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)

L’ulo L’ampar (43)
Heroic (1)
Crack Shot (2)

Joph Seastriker (49)
Heroic (1)
M9-G8 (7)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Black One (2)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Edited by Rich P

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4 hours ago, underling said:

I guess the question is are Rey and Vennie too light to do what you want them to?

Yeah, that's definitely up for debate.  

1 hour ago, Rich P said:

I thought about Kaz, @gennataos the need to layer more points into him makes me wonder if he is worth it.  Needing 10 points for M9-G8 plus Targeting computer. ... 

I do accept that Jess is only slightly more tanky than Bastian. I've not had a chance to try her yet, but she's on my list ... the theory with the T-70 is that you present them at R3 while Vennie is at R2 so they are a less good target ... or just fly them away for the first engage while you smash Vennie in headlong. Their primary purpose in the initial engage is to give Vennie rerolls. Any damage they sling after that is gravy. 

A squadmate did ok subbing in a heroic Red Sq for Bastian to keep M9 alive longer, and that makes me wonder if Joph Seastriker is a good slot in. He won't die to focus fire, and is cheap. Plus he takes heroic too to mitigate those blank outs that kill Bastian.

I think Zizi vs LuLo is a choice ... Lulo can really close out games if he lives to end game, my original success with the archetype was with Lu'lo and he was the ship who closed out the games against swarms. Zizi can do it, but struggles against hardier ships particularly 3 green ships which are fairly common right now between scyks and inquisitors/ties. I think I'm talking myself back into Lulo ...

I might give this list a bash though - unsure if the last 2 points are best on crackshot, or on black one for Joph ..

Vennie (54)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Pattern Analyzer (5)
Perceptive Copilot (8)
Veteran Turret Gunner (7)
Paige Tico (7)
Proton Bombs (5)
Seismic Charges (3)

L’ulo L’ampar (43)
Heroic (1)
Crack Shot (2)

Joph Seastriker (49)
Heroic (1)
M9-G8 (7)
Integrated S-Foils (0)
Black One (2)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

@Rich P - Kaz would still be cheaper than T-70s as M9-G8 carrier, but yeah, I'm not sure either.  I think I love the Joph idea!

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Mark, I took another look at your initial list when I tried trimming stuff from the bomber to get to three T-70s.

But have you thought about keeping the As as they are, but dropping the bomber to a Cobalt and adding Seismics?

That could be even more annoying. :D

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My Vennie is a heckin chonker, but my god does it eat through droid swarms:

Extended Vennie (198/200)
========================
MG-100 StarFortress: Vennie (54 + 53)
    + Trajectory Simulator (6)
    + Advanced Optics (4)
    + Rey (14)
    + Veteran Turret Gunner (7)
    + Perceptive Copilot (8)
    + Seismic Charges (3)
    + Proton Bombs (5)
    + Ablative Plating (6)
RZ-2 A-Wing: Zizi Tlo (41 + 7)
    + Heroic (1)
    + Crack Shot (2)
    + Advanced Optics (4)
RZ-2 A-Wing: Tallissan Lintra (36 + 7)
    + Heroic (1)
    + Crack Shot (2)
    + Advanced Optics (4)

Edited by MrHedgehogMan
Typo

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I know the idea is a fat Vennie but I was curious what actually fits with Vennie. This sounds not terribly stupid, but then again I never tried the Bomber so I might be waaaay of base. 

(54) Vennie [MG-100 StarFortress]
(5) Proton Bombs
(6) Trajectory Simulator
Points: 65

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

Total points: 200

Downgrading to Blues gives you 9 more points on Vennie depending on if that is more your game. Did not know you could easily fit 3 X-Wings with Vennie. 

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2 hours ago, Flurpy said:

I know the idea is a fat Vennie but I was curious what actually fits with Vennie. This sounds not terribly stupid, but then again I never tried the Bomber so I might be waaaay of base. 

(54) Vennie [MG-100 StarFortress]
(5) Proton Bombs
(6) Trajectory Simulator
Points: 65

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

Total points: 200

Downgrading to Blues gives you 9 more points on Vennie depending on if that is more your game. Did not know you could easily fit 3 X-Wings with Vennie. 

I prefer to play him with A-Wings as this helps him trigger his ability if he gets shot at out of arc.

 

Although 3 T70s is intriguing. I'll have to try that.

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14 hours ago, underling said:

Mark, I took another look at your initial list when I tried trimming stuff from the bomber to get to three T-70s.

But have you thought about keeping the As as they are, but dropping the bomber to a Cobalt and adding Seismics?

That could be even more annoying. :D

Hmmm...maybe?  I've discovered I like delayed fuses and just blowing up the asteroid field.  That bomber probably dies pretty fast, which makes me concerned about how many points I'd put into it (ie - Trajectory Simulator).  

2 hours ago, Flurpy said:

I know the idea is a fat Vennie but I was curious what actually fits with Vennie. This sounds not terribly stupid, but then again I never tried the Bomber so I might be waaaay of base. 

(54) Vennie [MG-100 StarFortress]
(5) Proton Bombs
(6) Trajectory Simulator
Points: 65

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

(44) Red Squadron Expert [T-70 X-wing]
(0) Integrated S-foils
(1) Heroic
Points: 45

Total points: 200

Downgrading to Blues gives you 9 more points on Vennie depending on if that is more your game. Did not know you could easily fit 3 X-Wings with Vennie. 

I dig the idea of him with a bunch of BB rookies. 

I don't know what a "good" bomber should be, if there is such a thing.  Like Oli says all the time...what is the list trying to do?  Phat Vennie wants to tank shots and bomb/shoot the **** out of stuff.  What does a slimmer Vennie (or any bomber) do better that something like a slim Rey doesn't?

Truth be told, this whole Vennie exploration on my part is because I have a bunch of official acrylic bomb tokens and other cool accessories that I want to play with.  This is the only way I can get them on the table!  ;)  Seriously, a large portion of my list choices are driven by my available accessories.  

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RE: Vennie with 3 X-Wings as per @Flurpy and @gennataos

Why Vennie at this point?  Three BB Blues and Cat might make more sense, or using someone with a bomb placement ability.  Vennie is basically a generic bomber, if you're not spending focus on defense.  The reason a Vennie build works (to the extent that it does) is that she really loads up with sources of focus-type modification, to really leverage her ability and stay alive a lot longer.

But a Vennie on a single action kinda doesn't make sense to me.

Bombers that fit with:

  • 3 BB Blues:
    • Cat with TrajSim, Proton Bombs, Veteran Turret Gunner, Delayed Fuses
      • Potential 4 dice + 3 dice double tap
    • Vennie with TrajSim, Proton Bombs, C-3PO
      • Hey, that's two tokens now, and doesn't seem too bad.
    • Ben Tenne with TrajSim, Proton Bombs, Seismic Charges, Delayed Fuses
    • Edon or Finch or Paige with TrajSim, Proton Bombs, Delayed Fuses
      • Any of the TrajSim could be Pattern Analyzer, if you prefer being able to better leverage your dial over launching bombs.  Might make sense with Finch most of all.
  • 3 Heroic Reds:
    • Edon or Finch or Paige with Proton Bombs, Delayed Fuses
    • Ben Tenne with Proton Bombs, Seismic Charges, Delayed Fuses
    • Cat with TrajSim, Proton Bombs, Delayed Fuses
    • Cobalt Bomber with TrajSim, Proton Bombs, Seismic Charges
      • Like, would simply having two bombs be better than Vennie if you don't have crew and gunner to load up on tokens?

///

Off in some other direction, does it ever make sense to take Paige with Finn and Heroic?  That's potentially pretty strong defensively; 3/8 rolls you'll roll a blank, and can Finn and Heroic for 2 green dice.  Offensively, add also VTG for when you double-blank the 2 dice turret roll?  Vennie's going to be a lot easier to trigger, and more consistent, however.

Bah, I think that'd be worse than a traditional loaded Vennie.

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