Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I don't have a cheat sheet but I've been looking into the "improvements"/differences between the two systems.  The only major thing that has stuck out so far is the forced movement based on speed in Genesys.  Genesys also adds the Brace for Impact maneuver, Dangerous Driving action, Blanket Barrage action, and Concentrated Barrage action.  Otherwise they are pretty identical.

I think in structured encounters, the forced movement will require more "handling" on the part of the pilot.  For example, a vehicle with a speed of 3-4 is forced to move 3 range bands.  If the pilot wants to move less than that they have to take the Reposition maneuver (replaces the Star Wars Fly/Drive maneuver).  So there can be some nuance there I think.

Otherwise I am not seeing much difference between the two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/18/2020 at 4:36 PM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Those are in the AoR CRB.

(Which might be entirely irrelevant, which came first?)

Yeah I just saw those the other day reading the AoR CRB to my son. 

Just means there's even less difference between the two. 

I have a game on Saturday and we'll use the force movement from Genesys. So I'll see how it plays out. 

I'm wondering if the real difference is in the number of talents that interact with vehicle combat. The Forge podcast says there were a lot of talents. I just can't imagine there's more than the SW system that's been out longer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I use bit of a mish-mash between Star Wars and Genesys Vehicle Rules: Selfmade Combat Cheatsheet including Vehicle Combat

Astromechs are not on this since there is no Astromech Player in my Group and NPC Astromechs only provide boosts, but it could be easily added instead of Hyperspace Section.


Side-Note (WIP): I'm currently considering to change Dangerous Flying & Driving to a Maneuver instead (even though it requires Piloting check), but Dogfighting in a complex environment like a Fleet Battle or Asteroid Field would then lead to no fighting at all since everyone is busy using their action for Dangerous Flying since Force Movement will crash them into the next Obstacle if they wouldnt xD

 

I should probably mention this Sheet is originally based on another one I found on the web, but the original Sheet itself has no author on it and I could not find it again.
It did change alot from the original but nonetheless.
 

Maybe this help 😉 

Edited by Fl1nt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Update!

So I had a space combat session set against a mass space combat.  Aside from running my minions incorrectly, it all went rather well incorporating the Genesys system rules.  However, I left in shields and facing since that is truly Star Wars-y.  As usual, the less combat oriented characters had little to do.  But that may just be from the combat lasting several rounds (5+) and about 2 hours of game time.  Otherwise everyone was otherwise engaged.  It seemed like pilots, copilots, gunners had more to do.

The only thing I am considering is changing Brace for Impact to an Out-of-Turn Incidental.  It doesn't seem tactically sound to suffer system strain if you are not getting attacked or attacks miss.

The forced movement was great.  It really made everyone weigh their tactical decisions more.

I also modified the standard weapon ranges to account for the minor change to range bands.  Basically, they were all bumped up 1 range band.  So: Close became Short, Short became Medium, Medium became Long, Long became Extreme, Extreme became Strategic.  It needs some tuning as heavy warships still operate at the Long/Extreme range instead of Strategic range.  But for the smaller scale engagement it worked.

I used the following as a hand out summary that the players referenced during :FFG SW Starship Reference Sheets

Dropbox link

Edited by Inquisitor Tremayne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you do it entirely theater-of-the-mind style, or did you use physical tokens or something to help everyone visualize things on the tabletop? There are pros and cons to both approaches, of course, I'm just always interested to hear what other folks do in their games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/22/2020 at 9:06 AM, Fl1nt said:

Side-Note (WIP): I'm currently considering to change Dangerous Flying & Driving to a Maneuver instead (even though it requires Piloting check), but Dogfighting in a complex environment like a Fleet Battle or Asteroid Field would then lead to no fighting at all since everyone is busy using their action for Dangerous Flying since Force Movement will crash them into the next Obstacle if they wouldnt xD

I think you misunderstand the Dangerous Driving action. "Dogfighting in a complex enviroment…" shouldn't require a Dangerous Driving check, it's just the background (and potential source for boost and setback dice based on the location).

Instead, only call for a Dangerous Driving action when the pilot "…performs an improbable feat of operating prowess." (GCRB228). Flying in an asteroid field? Not really. Flying really close to an asteroid to shake pursuit? YES! Because then the pursuers need to make the same check and risk collision with the asteroids. Flying near two capital ships shooting at each other? No. Zipping between the conn towers of one of the capital ships as a short cut? YES!

A lot of people assume that pilot checks should be done all the time, because that's how other games (especially other Star Wars games) did things. But FFGSWRPG/Genesys is a different beast altogether. You must unlearn what you have learned.

Also, in regards to forced move, remember that speed/range/movement/range bands are all relative. If your ship is at current speed 5, for example, they can move 4 range bands in relation to that moon far away and thus not get any closer/farther to the furball they are currently in. Maps are relative, not fixed hexes you need to count.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/20/2020 at 4:33 PM, SFC Snuffy said:

Did you do it entirely theater-of-the-mind style, or did you use physical tokens or something to help everyone visualize things on the tabletop? There are pros and cons to both approaches, of course, I'm just always interested to hear what other folks do in their games.

via roll20, so maps and tokens.

11 hours ago, Bellona said:

Do you happen to have that sheet anywhere which doesn't require a special login to grab a copy of it?

You should still be able to DL it without logging in, but I'll put it somewhere else.

5 hours ago, Daeglan said:

What i would really like is a reference sheet like these. But usimg genesys rules..

That's what mine is.  Will send new link when I get home.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/22/2020 at 6:33 PM, c__beck said:

I think you misunderstand the Dangerous Driving action. "Dogfighting in a complex enviroment…" shouldn't require a Dangerous Driving check, it's just the background (and potential source for boost and setback dice based on the location).

Instead, only call for a Dangerous Driving action when the pilot "…performs an improbable feat of operating prowess." (GCRB228). Flying in an asteroid field? Not really. Flying really close to an asteroid to shake pursuit? YES! Because then the pursuers need to make the same check and risk collision with the asteroids. Flying near two capital ships shooting at each other? No. Zipping between the conn towers of one of the capital ships as a short cut? YES!

A lot of people assume that pilot checks should be done all the time, because that's how other games (especially other Star Wars games) did things. But FFGSWRPG/Genesys is a different beast altogether. You must unlearn what you have learned.

Also, in regards to forced move, remember that speed/range/movement/range bands are all relative. If your ship is at current speed 5, for example, they can move 4 range bands in relation to that moon far away and thus not get any closer/farther to the furball they are currently in. Maps are relative, not fixed hexes you need to count.

That's a great take. 
When I think back to previous Space Combat in my campaign I actually handled it that way, got a bit hung up with the theoretical rules I think xD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2020 at 2:28 PM, Inquisitor Tremayne said:

Update!

So I had a space combat session set against a mass space combat.  Aside from running my minions incorrectly, it all went rather well incorporating the Genesys system rules.  However, I left in shields and facing since that is truly Star Wars-y.  As usual, the less combat oriented characters had little to do.  But that may just be from the combat lasting several rounds (5+) and about 2 hours of game time.  Otherwise everyone was otherwise engaged.  It seemed like pilots, copilots, gunners had more to do.

The only thing I am considering is changing Brace for Impact to an Out-of-Turn Incidental.  It doesn't seem tactically sound to suffer system strain if you are not getting attacked or attacks miss.

The forced movement was great.  It really made everyone weigh their tactical decisions more.

I also modified the standard weapon ranges to account for the minor change to range bands.  Basically, they were all bumped up 1 range band.  So: Close became Short, Short became Medium, Medium became Long, Long became Extreme, Extreme became Strategic.  It needs some tuning as heavy warships still operate at the Long/Extreme range instead of Strategic range.  But for the smaller scale engagement it worked.

I used the following as a hand out summary that the players referenced during :FFG SW Starship Reference Sheets

Dropbox link

This is awesome. My only complaint is squishimg down to max speed of six really screws a wings and tie intwrceptors. As their key feature is faster tham everything else....

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Daeglan said:

This is awesome. My only complaint is squishimg down to max speed of six really screws a wings and tie intwrceptors. As their key feature is faster tham everything else....

 

 

I added a Speed 7+ to my game, just ramping up the effects of the 5+ Mechanics. 

Works fine so far for my group.

Edited by Fl1nt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Fl1nt said:

I added a Speed 7+ to my game, just ramping up the effects of the 5+ Mechanics. 

Works fine so far for my group.

good point. Talents like Full throttle add more to need that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update #2

Had another encounter with starships and ground combat.  The Genesys rule of vehicle scale and personal scale using the same range bands doesn't really work for Star Wars unless you make ALL vehicle weapons have the same range of Long+.  As mentioned previously, I increased starship ranges only 1 additional range band.  This worked for starship combat only, but fell apart once ground forces were introduced.  Now a medium ranged laser canon has the same range that a PC/NPC can move in one round.

The simple fix is to give all vehicle scale weapons Long+ range at personal scale.  But I'm going to do some tinkering...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Inquisitor Tremayne said:

Update #2

Had another encounter with starships and ground combat.  The Genesys rule of vehicle scale and personal scale using the same range bands doesn't really work for Star Wars unless you make ALL vehicle weapons have the same range of Long+.  As mentioned previously, I increased starship ranges only 1 additional range band.  This worked for starship combat only, but fell apart once ground forces were introduced.  Now a medium ranged laser canon has the same range that a PC/NPC can move in one round.

The simple fix is to give all vehicle scale weapons Long+ range at personal scale.  But I'm going to do some tinkering...

 

how has speed worked out for you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Inquisitor Tremayne said:

Speed has been excellent actually.  The Forced Movement is great.  It really puts more emphasis on the pilot and maneuvering.

Very cool. 
I'm also using part of the Genesys Rules and am really pleaed with Speed etc.

 

Have you already played with all Ship-Weapons at Range Long+ as you mentioned before?
This is what currently concerns me the most in my round (I'm still using seperate Rangebands for Personal and Ship Combat but would like to bring it into the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Inquisitor Tremayne said:

Speed has been excellent actually.  The Forced Movement is great.  It really puts more emphasis on the pilot and maneuvering.

My concern is the cap at 5  destroys the benefit of a wings and nterceptors and talents like full throttle

For example if you are in an xwing andnyou use full throttle nothing happens. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

My concern is the cap at 5  destroys the benefit of a wings and nterceptors and talents like full throttle

For example if you are in an xwing andnyou use full throttle nothing happens. 

As I posted somewhere above: Extrapolating the Speed Rules to 7+ works really well.

-> I've attached a screenshot of how my Cheatsheet looks right now, and it works quite well (it's simply increasing both positive and negative effects from the former 5+ speed).

Speed 7.PNG

And yes, Collisions are absolutely terrifying.

Edited by Fl1nt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Fl1nt said:

Very cool. 
I'm also using part of the Genesys Rules and am really pleaed with Speed etc.

 

Have you already played with all Ship-Weapons at Range Long+ as you mentioned before?
This is what currently concerns me the most in my round (I'm still using seperate Rangebands for Personal and Ship Combat but would like to bring it into the same.

Not yet, probably won't be for another couple sessions.  I'm afraid that is the only solution though, which I am not entirely sold on yet.  It would seem to make all weapons about equal.  Why use a weapon that deals less damage at long range than another?  The first thing I would do as a starship owner is upgrade my weapons for max damage.

However, looking through the Genesys CRB and the EPG, most projectile vehicle weapons have a range of Long+ and all of the Sci-fi starship examples have weapons of Extreme+ range.  So maybe Genesys already "solved" the issue by expanding weapon ranges in this way.

Next time we have such an encounter I think I will say, "only at personal scale do Short and Medium ranged weapons extend to Long, Long range weapons extend to Extreme, and Extreme extends to Strategic.  (Are there even any Extreme range vehicle weapons in SW?)

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

My concern is the cap at 5  destroys the benefit of a wings and nterceptors and talents like full throttle

For example if you are in an xwing andnyou use full throttle nothing happens. 

Good point.  I think I would allow the talents to still increase the speed and include the additional options as Fl1nt listed.  But still cap stock ship speeds at 5.  By allowing only those with that talent to really stand out.

In general, I'm trying to minimize the amount of modifications I need to make to a vehicle stat block.  So I can still take one and use it almost as is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fl1nt said:

As I posted somewhere above: Extrapolating the Speed Rules to 7+ works really well.

-> I've attached a screenshot of how my Cheatsheet looks right now, and it works quite well (it's simply increasing both positive and negative effects from the former 5+ speed).

Speed 7.PNG

And yes, Collisions are absolutely terrifying.

Ooo...

I'm not familiar with the Genesys rules for vehicles, but this looks really good and I'd love to use it.

Would one of you please post how Range Bands work and a full speed chart? It would be wonderful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Ooo...

I'm not familiar with the Genesys rules for vehicles, but this looks really good and I'd love to use it.

Would one of you please post how Range Bands work and a full speed chart? It would be wonderful.

Check my dropbox link up above for details or Fl1nt's.

Basically though, vehicle scale and personal are the same.  They added a Strategic range beyond Extreme range.  Vehicles don't really take maneuvers to move, instead they have forced movement according to the chart based on the ship's speed.  The pilot can take a maneuver to force an additional range band move.  But in short, your vehicle moves on the pilots turn regardless.  Also, vehicle weapon attack difficulty is based on range and modified by silhouette and speed.

Edited by Inquisitor Tremayne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...