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yeah, i saw that.   Alternate investigators seem like an easy hit,  but....  I don't really feel that what is previewed here is useful,  or good.    For the first part of daisy's new ability you have to have 2 tomes in play just to be back to where Daisy would normally be otherwise.   3+ tomes in play for it to be an advantage.    

For the second part, you trade a free use of a tome every turn for a free use of all of your tomes once per game.   That is decidedly a bad tradeoff.     I don't know what they were thinking here.   No alt art, even.

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I suspect that this is the first in a series of print-your-own content. If so, it’s a nice way of FFG to give a nod to the community. I’d still be nice to have a way to get an official quality print of the new cards somehow.

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Agreed with the above - needing two tomes just to get back to even seems like a bad trade.

The only plus I can see to the new one is that she's much more open on the deckbuilding requirements.  Could be some interesting potential there but it'll take some work to find it.

 

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The bit about parallel investigators in the scenario guide for read and die make it seem pretty likely we will only be getting print-and-play quality. I’m fine with that. They didn’t charge a fee for the PDFs. What I’m curious about is how often and how many of these will be coming? With no profit on them it seems like a low priority project.

I also wonder if they’ll have time to develop once covid is not causing delays.

The limited encounter cards may make it easier to create resource wise, but they’re going to have to be pretty clever to combine existing locations and encounters into new scenarios.

I would expect to see Lola/Minh using Carcosa and Leo/Ursula using FA and Diana using TCU. Beyond that things get murky.

But for class options I’m betting we’ll get Leo, Lola, and Diana.

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All the scenario cards that get included aren't shuffled into a deck or need to look like physical cards.  You can just print the cards onto a piece of paper and cut them out to play this.  I do like that it's basically a twist on an existing scenario and only requires Core + Dunwich Deluxe to play (Okay, technically you would need 2x Cores or something else so that you can put 4 Tomes into your Daisy deck, since 1 Core + 1 Dunwich doesn't include enough Tomes).

The new front of Daisy seems exclusively worse than the original.  There might be some kind of janky willpower build that uses the original deckbuilding to turn Daisy into a spell caster.  But then you might as well just play Norman Withers or an actual Mystic.  The original free tome action per turn just feels so much more useful than a potentially higher willpower and one-time Tom power turn.

The alternate deckbuilding is a bit more useful.  Losing unlimited Mystic access (and level 4-5 Seeker) is pretty bad, and there's currently very few additional Tomes that you gain access to, but being able to include Guardian cards for a support Daisy might be useful (First Watch, Dodge, Alice Luxley, Tetsuo Mori, Hallowed Mirror, etc.).  I'm still not sure if it overcomes the loss of unlimited Mystic 0-2 access.  Daisy normally runs Ward of Protection, Deny Existence, and maybe Delve too Deep (among other Mystic things, Read the Signs, Ethereal Form, etc.), so needing to give those up to include Guardian cards might not be worth it either.

The upgraded Signatures are pretty awesome though.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Soakman said:

The bit about parallel investigators in the scenario guide for read and die make it seem pretty likely we will only be getting print-and-play quality. I’m fine with that. They didn’t charge a fee for the PDFs. What I’m curious about is how often and how many of these will be coming? With no profit on them it seems like a low priority project.

I also wonder if they’ll have time to develop once covid is not causing delays.

The limited encounter cards may make it easier to create resource wise, but they’re going to have to be pretty clever to combine existing locations and encounters into new scenarios.

I would expect to see Lola/Minh using Carcosa and Leo/Ursula using FA and Diana using TCU. Beyond that things get murky.

But for class options I’m betting we’ll get Leo, Lola, and Diana.

Although Daisy is a Core investigator and they are using Dunwich with her. I was wondering if they would go through the core investigators first, since those are ones that they know everyone has. 

Her new ability is not nearly as powerful as her normal one and she won’t have Abigail Foreman available to her, which rachets her ability up even more.  Bandolier could help with hand slot issues, but what other really good Tomes can this version have, that her old version couldn’t? All I can think of is 3XP Book of Shadows, and 3XP Scroll of Secrets. If you used her new back, Book of Shadows wouldn’t really matter anyway and 3XP Old Book of Lore is similar to but better than Scroll of Secrets anyway. So I don’t really see the benefit. If course, there are new tomes coming, so maybe eventually... I guess if you used her new front and old back, you could conceivably get her up to 12 sanity with Abigail Foreman in play and I like her upgraded signatures. 
 

If you want higher quality cards, the PDF could be printed out somewhere like Staples instead of doing it at home. The fact that it’s free makes that more viable. We actually have a card stock printer, but haven’t used 325gsm paper yet, so we are going to try it out for the print and play. 

I am glad that they did something like this for many of their games. Hopefully it has kept people employed and busy and it’s a nice little boost for our morale too! 

Edited by Mimi61

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5 minutes ago, Mimi61 said:

Although Daisy is a Core investigator and they are using Dunwich with her. I was wondering if they would go through the core investigators first, since those are ones that they know everyone has. 

 

I am not sure exactly what the thought process is, behind which investigators will get the parallel treatment but I suppose having some relevant location cards must be a factor. Daisy fits in well with the setting of Extracurricular Activity, i.e. Miskatonic University, and having Dr. Armitage in tow. I could imagine they could give Skids a run out down at the Clover Club. Not sure if we could deduce who's next in line with some idle parallel investigator to location mapping speculation.

Anyway, I like what they have done with the parallel Daisy and the fact that you can mix and match the front and backs of both versions.

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31 minutes ago, Dr Dee said:

I am not sure exactly what the thought process is, behind which investigators will get the parallel treatment but I suppose having some relevant location cards must be a factor.

It could also just be that someone seems to really like Daisy :D  She was the one included as the promo with the first Invocation event a few years ago too.

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Posted (edited)

I assume all the investigators they have running parallel will have the mix and match option, which I think is a great idea. It can tailor certain investigators to certain campaigns and even make them more flexible for solo play. 

Edited by Mimi61

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We have tried printing out cards from the pdf and are having some trouble. The cards are printing with almost 1/4” of the card cut off. As you can see from Daisy’s card, it’s along the top for horizontal cards and along the left side for vertical ones. If we print from a mobile device, it prints the whole card, but the quality is noticeably worse than from the laptop. Putting them in a word doc also noticeably reduces the quality. Anyone else experiencing this problem? 

7A176AFF-2E86-4509-A265-855DDD9E7186.jpeg

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People keep talking about Bandolier; I think we're forgetting that it can only hold weapon assets. Is there a gun-toting Daisy I don't know about?

More pertinent perhaps is the new spell asset from the Harvey Walters deck that gives you tome slots: Arcane Enlightenment. It's almost a reprint of bandolier, but for tomes.

The advanced signatures look super interesting, regardless. I feel like her new weakness is much better than the old one in specific campaigns, where the bag only has skulls and one other bad token type.

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Huh, I think this is the first time they announced something for the game that didn't have me excited. This is mostly due to the print and play nature of it. Never been a fan of that stuff.

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I really like the idea behind what we're seeing here.

However, it's a bit messy.

The extra scenario, built from existing encounter sets, is a very cool way to add some extra free content for us, and I love the idea of scenarios for specific investigators, like an in-depth version of Personal Stories from the Arkham Horror and Eldritch Horror board games. However, while the concept of asymmetrical exp costs is not inherently bad, I don't really like how the amount of experience Daisy earns is calculated; it seems a little too scattershot. I also am not particularly thrilled with the idea of being able to optimise your signatures to have the upgraded version of the asset and the original version of the weakness - making side story rewards strictly optimal was a problem with Curse of the Rougarou even before it was utterly broken with Calvin and Preston. It will be interesting to see how many "new" scenarios the designers are able to stitch together from existing sets, and how many of them end up working out - Extracurricular Activities is one of the most straightforward scenarios in the game (aside from the resolutions, I guess), so I wonder if we'll see them dipping into more unusual location sets such as City of Archives or Lost in Time and Space...

As for the new investigator mechanics, I like that they're weaker than the basic version (since they should definitely err on the side of being less potent than the base version rather than more powerful). New deckbuilding options are always cool regardless of which is optimal, because it's more ways to play the game. I definitely feel like the new parallel version of Daisy's "front" works best with her original deckbuilding, allowing her to actually get more use out of her Mystic secondary (Mystic 0-2 often a pretty disappointing secondary class once you've started upgrading your deck, and relying on Shrivelling (0) with a base willpower of 3 is painful) and playing a little bit like Diana, starting with low willpower and building up significantly higher, giving her a good use for non-Action tomes like Dream Diary or Occult Grimoire and letting her have a single-use super-powered ability; conversely, the new parallel version of Daisy's deckbuilding works best with her existing "front", giving her some cool options for tanking or scenario control while missing out on the biggest Seeker bombs, a little bit like Carolyn Fern, and far more strongly emphasising her Tome flavour and synergy rather than having her be an archetypical Seeker; so far, having access to Tome 0-5 rather than Seeker 0-5 and Mystic 0-2 provides just two new cards, in the form of Book of Shadows (3) and Scroll of Secrets (3), neither of which is very impressive, but it's worth noting that a Survivor tome has been spoiled from the upcoming Stella Clark investigator expansion, so we might see more books that only parallel Daisy can shelve.

Despite having a certain dislike of the Seeker class, I'm actually pretty excited to try out the new Daisy deckbuilding and ability.

On that note, both for the sake of working out the maximum Willpower you can achieve with parallel Daisy and the maximum experience she can earn in Read or Die, she can currently have a maximum of six Tome assets in play (eight in Read or Die) - two in her hands, two in her Tote Bag, one attached to Abigail Foreman, and one attached to Dr Elli Horowitz (currently, the only Tome that is also a Relic is the Pnakotic Manuscripts, not counting Mateo's signature card).

The article very strongly implies that parallel Daisy is just the first of many, and I would love to see them take a second crack at some of the less beloved investigators and signature cards - Skids and Calvin come to mind as investigators I think could be made far better with some tweaks, and the upgraded signature cards are the perfect excuse to revisit signatures like Agnes' Heirloom of Hyperborea, which almost always might as well read "slightly worse Unexpected Courage" in its present form, or address issues like Wendy's signature asset being a cool card to build around but utterly ruined by her signature weakness.

Finally, a few suggestions for good picks from the Guardian class for parallel Daisy - Guard Dog (very appropriate if you're familiar with The Dunwich Horror); Venturer to top up Fingerprint Kits (shame that Strange Solution is level 4); Dynamite Blast if running a Milan build or otherwise piling up the resources; Alice Luxley for more static Intellect boosts and potentially handy direct damage to enemies (nice synergy with Archaic Glyphs (Prophecy Foretold)); Beat Cop together with something like Machete/.45 Thompson for a janky hybrid build (add Charisma, Milan, Scientific Theory and Dream Diary (Dreams of a Madman)); Tetsuo Mori to help tutor out even more Tomes; Take the Initiative if using Practice Makes Perfect; Hallowed Mirror as a one-of to fill up the 5th off-class slot; Daring if using Shrivelling; Inspiring Presence for synergy with taboo Dr Milan Christopher; and the general-purpose Guardian cards that anyone could find a use for, like Dodge, Delay the Inevitable, Second Wind, First Watch, etc.

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40 minutes ago, Allonym said:

On that note, both for the sake of working out the maximum Willpower you can achieve with parallel Daisy and the maximum experience she can earn in Read or Die, she can currently have a maximum of six Tome assets in play (eight in Read or Die) - two in her hands, two in her Tote Bag, one attached to Abigail Foreman, and one attached to Dr Elli Horowitz (currently, the only Tome that is also a Relic is the Pnakotic Manuscripts, not counting Mateo's signature card).

Don't forget Arcane Enlightenment (from Harvey Walters) for another two Tomes.

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1 hour ago, SGPrometheus said:

People keep talking about Bandolier; I think we're forgetting that it can only hold weapon assets. Is there a gun-toting Daisy I don't know about?

OG Daisy can't take any guns.  This Daisy can, and with her restricted Willpower and limited Mystic slots, she might think about guns instead of spells for fighting.

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2 hours ago, SGPrometheus said:

People keep talking about Bandolier; I think we're forgetting that it can only hold weapon assets. Is there a gun-toting Daisy I don't know about?

Good call. I don’t play guardians enough. 
Although smacking someone with the Necronomicon should do at least +1damage right? 😉

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Rules question:

Does Daisy get a willpower boost from her signature weakness? The JD Necronomicon is a tome asset, but I am not sure whether as a weakness it is controlled by the player. To my recollection it was ruled that Roland's Cover Up signature weakness was not owned by the player (and hence its action could be triggered by any investigator at the right location), but I am not sure whether this ruling is based on Cover Up being a weakness or it being a treachery. In the first case, the JD Necronomical being a weakness, neo-Daisy would not get a WP boost. In the second case she would as she controls the asset. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gibby said:

Rules question:

Does Daisy get a willpower boost from her signature weakness? The JD Necronomicon is a tome asset, but I am not sure whether as a weakness it is controlled by the player. To my recollection it was ruled that Roland's Cover Up signature weakness was not owned by the player (and hence its action could be triggered by any investigator at the right location), but I am not sure whether this ruling is based on Cover Up being a weakness or it being a treachery. In the first case, the JD Necronomical being a weakness, neo-Daisy would not get a WP boost. In the second case she would as she controls the asset. 

I can't remember if this was from the Rules Reference or the FAQ, but because it is an asset it remains under Daisy's control and she gets the willpower boost and extra sanity.

The relevant text is: "Weaknesses with an encounter cardtype are, like other encounter cards, not controlled by any player. Weaknesses with a player cardtype are controlled by their bearer."

Edited by Assussanni

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8 hours ago, Allonym said:

... I also am not particularly thrilled with the idea of being able to optimise your signatures to have the upgraded version of the asset and the original version of the weakness...

I don't think you can do this. The signature assets and weaknesses are treated as a set...so you either use the original set or the advanced set. It is covered in the rules for Parallel Investigators.

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18 minutes ago, Dr Dee said:

I don't think you can do this. The signature assets and weaknesses are treated as a set...so you either use the original set or the advanced set. It is covered in the rules for Parallel Investigators.

I think he's referring to the scenario completion text. 

 

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12 hours ago, Mimi61 said:

We have tried printing out cards from the pdf and are having some trouble. The cards are printing with almost 1/4” of the card cut off. As you can see from Daisy’s card, it’s along the top for horizontal cards and along the left side for vertical ones. If we print from a mobile device, it prints the whole card, but the quality is noticeably worse than from the laptop. Putting them in a word doc also noticeably reduces the quality. Anyone else experiencing this problem? 

7A176AFF-2E86-4509-A265-855DDD9E7186.jpeg

I've tried printing these off directly from the PDf and it works for me. If you are printing from Adobe Acrobat Reader, select 9 pages per sheet (if you are printing to A4...might need to change this number for other page sizes) and it prints the cards to the right size (perhaps 1-2mm bigger than standard...but can be cut to size). Obviously if you want to print double-sided you would need to arrange things differently to align the backs of cards to the front but I'm not seeing this clipping issue. Could be a printer settings thing.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/5/2020 at 8:50 PM, Allonym said:

On that note, both for the sake of working out the maximum Willpower you can achieve with parallel Daisy and the maximum experience she can earn in Read or Die, she can currently have a maximum of six Tome assets in play (eight in Read or Die) - two in her hands, two in her Tote Bag, one attached to Abigail Foreman, and one attached to Dr Elli Horowitz (currently, the only Tome that is also a Relic is the Pnakotic Manuscripts, not counting Mateo's sign

Daisy’s parallel deck building requirements won’t let her have Abigail Foreman, because aside from tomes, she is limited to level 0-3 Seeker cards and Abigail is a level 4.
But yes, regular Daisy is very powerful with Elli and Abigail who can play Double Double to her ability every round! 

There is also a different Necronomicon on the horizon, but could she even have it with her weakness? It is a different translation. 

Edited by Mimi61

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36 minutes ago, Mimi61 said:

Daisy’s parallel deck building requirements won’t let her have Abigail Foreman, because aside from tomes, she is limited to level 0-3 Seeker cards and Abigail is a level 4.

You can use either front with either back.

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