Jump to content
Cpt ObVus

The most demoralizing thing I’ve yet seen (extended)

Recommended Posts

A nice start could be outbid him moving after the enemy.

this per se doesn't grant you nothing but limit a lot the enemy choice of manouvers

that list has 4 point bid so you only need 5.

if you don't want a bid you can field 1 I6 ship knowing that will be the priority target.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They can still be blocked, unlike AdvancedSensor Guri. Higher initiative doesn't care anyway. An imperial aces list should do rather well.

More generally, I would embrace the degeneracies of extended. They are a feature of the format. You can always play hyperspace if it gets too frustrating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup. Bunch of great ideas for the learning:

try i6. It’ll laugh at it. 
try it yourself. You’ll learn what it’s bad at when you lose. I love doing this. That’s why I’ve learned from losing 20-30 games while playing aces. 
sloane does sound like a great counter lol. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Outside of specific list counters....

With no Advanced Sensors, they can't react to where you are with more than a single repo. They're also prone to dice variance. So keep range and try to predict what area each will land in. Stay alive for long enough, far enough away to avoid focus fire and keep taking shots. You'll have a decent chance of trading positively against them in the long run, since they'll only have a single mod on their dice.

The more you force them to link actions for that mod, the more predictable they'll become and they'll  also be less capable of quickly covering ground.

Be mindful of their spacing, they want to killbox you, if one or two of them end up out of range and too widely spaced, because they can't risk getting caught, you'll have the advantage.

Chasing Guri is likely a trap. Force her to run and switch on one of the Assassins instead. Bait them in and set your own trap. You'll need to have a clear direction ahead of you, with the option to turn in another at all times.

Aiming for R1 is gonna be generally bad. But if they're stressed, you can position for a block and force a very hard choice for one. Be aware that it's counter-productive going for the block if it doesn't give you a follow up shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Set up a big kill box on one of the assassins and take them out.

Block one if you can spare the ship to do it when you’re going to kill it.

Its annoying, sure, but you can take them down.

As others said, I6 can do some good as well if you’re looking at specific list builds. Swarms also do good against things like this, especially if you can create a big enough kill box most of them get shots off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sloane would be great, really punishing them for using their linked actions.  Sloane lists are also swarms, for pure punching power.  I really liked the look of SOTL's Reaper, 4 TIE, 2 Interceptor Sloane Swarm.

Part of me thinks ordinary weight of fire could do it.  5 health ships are still just 5 health, and can die to two 3-dice attacks, and there are only 3 of them.  Something like Rebel Beef (Braylen, Ten, Cassian, Arvel--does that all still fit?), or Resistance 4-ship (Jess, Bastian, Cova, Kaz) seems like it'd probably have the health to weather the attacks, and have the damage output to just grind through stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't want to be dismissive - the OP obviously has been having trouble rather than fun.  But man, *my* 'Vipers sure do like to die easy.  But my local meta likes Imperial Aces and Rebel Beef.  So I guess that's an answer: run ships with higher initiative and even more repositioning, or big blocks of high-health heavy hitters supported by Leia.  And yeah, Sloane is one my biggest NPE's in 2nd Ed.

But seriously, StarVipers are not the cancer that so many seem to think they are.  I think it's more a matter of unfamiliarity: they are wonky and most people don't ever see them, let alone practice with them, so they don't know what to do when they finally do see them.  But they are basically an Ace-style ship (meaning they have a tendency to pop) without a lot of the Ace attributes (double repositioning, token stacks, amazing in-faction support, Force).  They ain't BAD; they're just weird.  Just my little two-cent rant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anybody believes that Starvipers are cancer really in general. It's a fun chassis. There only has been two problematic issues with them - the controversial butterfly fortress on the one hand which has been out generic'ed nowadays.

And AS Guri on the other. In certain situations AS Guri can be a literal NPE, because it does not matter at all what manoeuvres or actions the opponent chooses, Guri will just sidestep them.

With the way the meta has developed both are not really a big deal now anyway.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Fenn Boba?

Heck, generic Fangs at PS 4 should eat these things up.

...yes, yes, yes, the answer to everything in XWG right now is a Fang fighter or two and a bomb dropping Firespray that can decide which way to go after the fact, I know, but so is a good tea. :-)

Edited by clanofwolves

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I found that the Collision Detector was what made them totally impossible; being able to roll to one of four wildly different spots OR boost, all after a maneuver of any desired speed, and never needing to worry about obstacles, made them basically impossible to predict. My opponent had hit upon this combo with Guri before, and that was bad, but adding in the two Assassins as well, it was absolutely horrifying. 

By the time he’d taken out three of my ships, I had removed two shields total from his ‘Vipers. With Outmaneuver, he was evaporating TIE Interceptors in one blast.

Edited by Cpt ObVus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Kyle Ren said:

I'm not a fan of hard-countering lists with other lists, so I think tbh if you don't like that playstyle you need to just play hyperspace instead. extended is full of stuff like that...

I don’t mind the dodginess of the Starviper, I just wonder what they were thinking, giving it 3 Agility, 3 Attack, an entirely blue and white dial (except for Segnor’s Loops that it never needs to use), Boost & (the sickest) Barrel Roll, both linked, and Shields! The thing has literally no weaknesses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I don’t mind the dodginess of the Starviper, I just wonder what they were thinking, giving it 3 Agility, 3 Attack, an entirely blue and white dial (except for Segnor’s Loops that it never needs to use), Boost & (the sickest) Barrel Roll, both linked, and Shields! The thing has literally no weaknesses.

Man, you got problems with that, you need to fly Defenders.  More health, free tokens, free k-turns, better pilot abilities.  Or jedi, with their free linked actions and free tokens, higher initiatives and better pilot abilities.  StarVipers aren't bad at all.   Again, not trying to say that you haven't had a rough go against them, but there is so much worse out there.  What have you been flying against them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I found that the Collision Detector was what made them totally impossible; being able to roll to one of four wildly different spots OR boost, all after a maneuver of any desired speed, and never needing to worry about obstacles, made them basically impossible to predict.

Col Det is indeed wonderful on Starvipers but I think your difficulty in predicting precisely where they will be may be more down to the range you're engaging them at.

They are like all aces, you need to predict generally where they'll be from a safer distance and engage them then. 

Remember, up close, they also need to predict where you're going to be, so don't make that too easy.

Playing against triple ace style lists can be fairly black and white. It can often be a whitewash one way or the other, so don't lose heart if, when losing, you've scored very little. A favourable trade here and there can turn these matches on their head. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I found that the Collision Detector was what made them totally impossible; being able to roll to one of four wildly different spots OR boost, all after a maneuver of any desired speed, and never needing to worry about obstacles, made them basically impossible to predict. My opponent had hit upon this combo with Guri before, and that was bad, but adding in the two Assassins as well, it was absolutely horrifying. 

By the time he’d taken out three of my ships, I had removed two shields total from his ‘Vipers. With Outmaneuver, he was evaporating TIE Interceptors in one blast.

Wait till you play Jedi.... xD also Hey Cap good to see you on this side of the forums 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Zucch10 said:

Rac with Sloan, title, ruthless and 5x academies.

Vipers are a lot less scary when double stressed, and Sloan makes them think twice about the linked since triple stress is even worse. 

In addition to being terrifyingly effective, I like the thematic realities of this fleet.  Sloan is ruthlessly murdering her TIEs left and right, and then stressing the enemy out about it.  😂

19 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Outside of specific list counters....

This.  The ideal way to beat a fleet is to fly its counter-strategy, not its counter-fleet.  At least whenever possible.  If you're flying a very weak fleet we can talk about how to help it, but outside of that, ideally you shouldn't have to put your fleet aside.

Though when playing casual there's no clear ceiling to aim for, and some fleets don't cut it against something on the stronger end of the spectrum.  You kinda have to settle into a balanced power range with each other, so if changing tactics isn't enough, you should consider either adjusting your fleet, or encouraging your opponent to fly something that's more at the level you guys play normally.

@Cpt ObVus Can you post your fleet?  That will give us some idea of how to fly it against him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...