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Cpt ObVus

How to effectively use the Scum Falcon?

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Forgive me if this sort of post actually belongs in the Fleet Builds section, but I’m asking questions that feel more general than specific...

Like most of us, I love the Millennium Falcon. 

One of the first things I did when I got into X-Wing was make sure I secured one of each version of the Falcon. My friend flew Rebel Han against me in our first game, and he was great. Tanky, with nasty guns. He beat me badly. Our next outing with the Falcon was a Resistance list with Chewie on the Falcon, supported by a Black Squadron T-70, Greer Sonnel, and Kaz’s Fireball. Chewie was fantastic.

Since then, I’ve gone deep into the tank trying to come up with a decent build for Lando’s Falcon, and the best I can manage in my theorycrafting is a massively expensive ship that relies on obstacle-jumping to overcome that crappy 2-die turret. It goes something like this:

Han Solo (54)
Trick Shot (4) 
Concussion Missiles (6)    
Rigged Cargo Chute (4)
Shield Upgrade (4)
Qi’ra (2)
Tobias Beckett (2)   
Greedo (1)     
Lando’s Millennium Falcon (3)

Outer Rim Pioneer (28) - docked.

The idea being that the Falcon can (with help from Rigged Cargo Chute, Outer Rim Pioneer, Qi’ra and Beckett) comfortably hop around in the asteroids, creating obstruction for Han, so he can actually hit harder than a flippin’ Academy TIE... and if my opponent draws the fight out into the open, I can (hopefully) rely on my Concussion Missiles to finish the job.

But this costs an (uncomfortably) grand total of 108 points. And it feels janky and conditional and difficult to fly correctly.

Am I missing something with this ship? Is there another way to overcome that god-awful primary? Because from where I’m sitting, it looks like the damage output on this beauty really doesn’t justify such a massive investment of points. Does the Scum version of the Falcon just suck? Or is the one I built actually pretty good, despite being janky and conditional?

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The Scum Falcon was initially used a lot because they undercosted it. Now it's seen some of the time because it's slightly overcosted.

You've got most of the optimal build there: Trick Shot, title,  escape craft - but use the Drone at 12pts.

Drop the Missiles entirely and swap the crew. You want Lando and Perceptive Co-pilot (or IG88D, if you want to save more points).

Rigged Cargo, Greedo, and the Shield are optional extras if you have spare points (you probably won't 🙂 ).

You still need to get obstructed shots (especially incoming ones!) to be effective, which takes practice and placing your own 3 obstacles at about 2.5 range from the corners really helps by making them nice to fly around the outside of the mat.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

But this costs an (uncomfortably) grand total of 108 points. And it feels janky and conditional and difficult to fly correctly.

That about sums it up.

8 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Am I missing something with this ship?

Unfortunately, probably not.

I feel like there's some potential with Han Solo with Mag-Pulse Warheads.  He's only giving up a 2-dice attack, and at Init 6, the deplete token has a good chance to actually matter.  If you can MPW a Vader, he goes from 3 attack dice to 1.

I feel like other missiles aren't worth it, but it isn't like non-Missile Scum Falcons have been really successful, so maybe that's a case where conventional wisdom is wrong, and Missile Han is "Good, Actually."

Anyhow, I'd probably keep Han as cheap as possible.  Trick Shot, Title.  Maybe Escape Craft.  Maybe Rigged Cargo Chute.  In particular, Qi'ra and Missiles on the same ship are a really bad fit.  Qi'ra is surprisingly solid--it's typically pretty easy to just leave a lock on an obstacle in the early turns before fighting--but then you can't lock an enemy for your missiles.  0-0-0 seems like good crew, but probably better off on some other ship in the list.

//

I wonder... this is probably too jank to live, but...

  • Han Solo (Trick Shot, Millennium Falcon) 61
  • Autopilot Drone (-) 12
    • Would it be better to get missiles on Han?  I dunno... Maybe.
  • 4-LOM (Mist Hunter) 50
  • Koshka Frost (0-0-0) 75
    • 2-8 points to spare... probably Contraband Cybernetics on 4-LOM, but there's options.
    • Hrm... Missiles Han + Rigged Cargo Chute on Koshka and Han...  RCC on Koshka is already kinda solid...
Edited by theBitterFig

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I’d honestly not bother with missiles on Scum Falcon unless the missile was a mag pulse.

The other way to get value out of Han’s 2 die attack is hotshot gunner. Basically, you force the target to lose their green token at I6. Then, you hammer the target with your list - I really like having Fenn in there to continue the I6 fun and have him try for the range 1 5-dice fun with fearless to boot.

I do have a jank list to try with scum Han mag pulse with Torani and some Kihraxz generics. Probably no good but will be hilarious when it works 

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I’ve found that the best pilot to fly Lando’s falcon isn’t Han, but the guy who owned it originally.

(49) Lando Calrissian [Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(8) Agile Gunner
(4) Trick Shot
(3) Lando's Millennium Falcon
Points: 64

Total points: 64

clocks in at a reasonable 64 points for the base build, pretty routinely able to get 3-4 dice shots, solves a lot of the action economy problems, and should still be able to have at every shot modded or double modded. For crew you can go with 000 to help with mods or deal stress, or (my favorite) Jabba and rigged cargo chute to dump debris everywhere.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I used to have fun using Freighter Captain as an ionizing blocker with 4-LOM + Static Discharge Vanes, but 4-LOM + SDV + Ion Cannon Nom Lumb I think completely outclasses it nowadays as it is cheaper, can ionize large bases more easily, and ionize 2 ships by itself without too much difficulty. Right now Freighter Captain and L3-37 feel overcosted next to the cheaper and improved Cannon Jumpmasters.

I personally would utilize Han as support first and offense second, either with just Mag Pulse as mentioned by others, or Hotshot Gunner with 4-LOM + SDV (prevent use of a focus/calculate token, strip it, then if there's an enemy small base at Range 1, ionize it), Trick Shot and/or title as optional upgrades.

A Lando build I've always wanted to try but have yet to is a Jabba-netics build with Han Gunner, Concussion Missiles, Title and either Trick Shot or Outmaneuver. It's a bit pricey at about 80 points, but for 5 turns you always have Focus, have a completely open dial, can plow through Debris without much worry, can boost freely without paying for Engine Upgrade, and get to pummel the enemy with double modded Concussion Missiles or boosted primary shots.

Edited by Enigami

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Fully embrace the Jank! This list can (potentially) drop NINE additional debris tokens!

TrashMan

(54) Han Solo [Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(6) Jabba the Hutt
(1) Greedo
(4) Rigged Cargo Chute
(7) Engine Upgrade
(4) Trick Shot
(3) Lando's Millennium Falcon
Points: 79

(41) Cartel Executioner [M12-L Kimogila Fighter]
(3) R3 Astromech
(4) Rigged Cargo Chute
(4) Spare Parts Canisters
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 53

(41) Cartel Executioner [M12-L Kimogila Fighter]
(3) R3 Astromech
(4) Rigged Cargo Chute
(4) Spare Parts Canisters
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 53

(12) Autopilot Drone [Escape Craft]
Points: 12

Total points: 197

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3 hours ago, Phelan Boots said:

Fully embrace the Jank! This list can (potentially) drop NINE additional debris tokens!

TrashMan...

Yeah, I was playing around with something like this, too...

No Bargain

(54) Han Solo [Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(6) Jabba the Hutt
(1) Greedo
(4) Rigged Cargo Chute
(4) Shield Upgrade
(4) Trick Shot
(3) Lando's Millennium Falcon
Points: 76

(29) Lando Calrissian [Escape Craft]
Points: 29

(43) Kavil [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(2) R4 Astromech
(4) Cloaking Device
(4) Spare Parts Canisters
(4) Trick Shot
(3) Dorsal Turret
Points: 60

(27) Sunny Bounder [M3-A Interceptor]
(6) Ion Cannon
Points: 33

Total points: 198
 

I know everyone is saying to keep the Escape Craft at the 12 point mark, and I may yet go that route... but I love the idea of having Lando’s (really excellent) pilot ability and Han’s active as well. It’s one of those lessons I may have to learn by trying and failing.

Anyway, Jabba looks really fun with Rigged Cargo Chute. Greedo tells me Jabba has no patience for smugglers who drop their cargo at the first sign of an Imperial Cruiser, but hey, even *I* get boarded sometimes. Y’think I had a choice? 😉

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9 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I feel like there's some potential with Han Solo with Mag-Pulse Warheads.

Flew this plus the title and 4-LOM crew several times before Corona lockdown. IMO when it works, oh baby it works. It’s less about maximizing the extra dice bonuses and more about being a debuff or big arc at I6. The games where it did poorly were ones where I got my positioning wrong versus unfamiliar opponents, or where I misjudged bumps because I couldn’t physically get around the table to see things.

However: it’s still more points than you’d ideally like to pay for it, and it depends a LOT on the rest of your squad to be main-line damage dealers. It also omits any number of extras that would synergize but would bloat the price.

Feels like an accomplishment to have a go-to build for the thing, though!

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

Flew this plus the title and 4-LOM crew several times before Corona lockdown. IMO when it works, oh baby it works. It’s less about maximizing the extra dice bonuses and more about being a debuff or big arc at I6. The games where it did poorly were ones where I got my positioning wrong versus unfamiliar opponents, or where I misjudged bumps because I couldn’t physically get around the table to see things.

However: it’s still more points than you’d ideally like to pay for it, and it depends a LOT on the rest of your squad to be main-line damage dealers. It also omits any number of extras that would synergize but would bloat the price.

I basically consider Fenn and/or Talonbane to be a required partner for him, both for damage output, and as a big threat. Preferably you fly him with two threatening ships. The exception, I guess, is flying him with 3x 3 dice guns(1x marauder and 2x enforcer, 2x marauder and fearless fang, or 3x fearless black sun ace).

Ex:

Han Solo (Scum) (54)    

    Trick Shot (4)    
    Mag-Pulse Warheads (6)    
    Greedo (1)    
    Lando's Millennium Falcon (3)    
    
Ship total: 68  Half Points: 34  Threshold: 6    
    
Fenn Rau (68)    
    Predator (2)    
    
Ship total: 70  Half Points: 35  Threshold: 2    
    
Talonbane Cobra (50)    
    Predator (2)    
    Afterburners (6)    
    
Ship total: 58  Half Points: 29  Threshold: 3    
    
Total: 196

I also have a list with 4-LOM instead of Talonbane, and one with a slim Dengar instead of Talonbane(mostly because 3x i6). 

Edited by Cerebrawl

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16 hours ago, missileaway said:

I’ve found that the best pilot to fly Lando’s falcon isn’t Han, but the guy who owned it originally.

Hmm.

4x i4

Lando Calrissian (Scum) (49)    
    Trick Shot (4)    
    L3-37 (4)    
    Dengar (6)    
    Lando's Millennium Falcon (3)    
    
Ship total: 66  Half Points: 33  Threshold: 6    
    
Skull Squadron Pilot (47)    
    Fearless (3)    
    
Ship total: 50  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 2    
    
Graz (46)    
    Predator (2)    
    
Ship total: 48  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 3    
    
Genesis Red (31)    
    Tractor Beam (3)    
    
Ship total: 34  Half Points: 17  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 198

Tractor beam seems like a fun combo with trick shot 😉

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On 4/6/2020 at 2:06 AM, missileaway said:

I’ve found that the best pilot to fly Lando’s falcon isn’t Han, but the guy who owned it originally.

I have found that Lando is more janky to fly than Han (and actually more fun). I've flown the following list a couple of times and it's been pretty fun to fly, although I have been absolutely murdered by Nantex's;

Lando Calrissian (Scum) (49) - Marksmanship (1), IG-88D (3), 0-0-0 (5), BT-1 (2), Lando's Millennium Falcon (3) Total 63 points  

IG-88B (63) - Marksmanship (1), Autoblasters (3), IG-2000 (1) Total 68 points    
    
IG-88C (64) - Marksmanship (1), Autoblasters (3), IG-2000 (1) Total 69 points

Total 200 points

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I find it frustrating to play Han in the Scum Falcon.  Too often you fly trying to get that obstructed shot and you end up thiiiiiiis close but no cigar.  With the obligatory Trick Shot stapled onto your ship, that's a 2-dice reduction in firepower.  Sometimes the stars align and you manage a massive 5+ dice shot, but it's impossible to do with any amount of reliability... which is kind of what you want if you're paying those kinds of points.

I wish Han's ability were triggered more like his Rebel counterpart.  I'd be willing to plenty of points for it (like, "this ship is my list's centerpiece" kind of points) just to get more reliable benefits.  It is so much easier to fly close to asteroids than it is to ensure an obstruction on a big-based ship.  And I'm not sure adding one die (esp. on attack, where the defender gets +1 green) is THAT much stronger than getting to reroll all your dice... especially on defense where it triggers so much more.

But I suppose that's not really the design philosophy of Scum.  The risk-to-reward ratio is a lot more extreme with those guys... which is probably why I tend to prefer Rebels.

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I actually got to try my Magpulse Han build in TTS the other day. It’s janky but hilarious when it works. I was able to jam and deplete Luke with Mag pulse, then Torani got a cluster missile into him in bullseye for the auto damage and got to make a second shot against someone near him.... so he got two auto hits from her ability plus the damage of the attack plus a crit from mag pulse.

Will it work again? Doubtful. But it was hilarious when it worked

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On 4/10/2020 at 9:44 PM, Npmartian said:

ackshually, the correct plural is nantex/nantices as in vertex/vertices. Get it right, fake fan.

Nantexen like Oxen. 😄

On 4/5/2020 at 1:07 AM, Cpt ObVus said:

Am I missing something with this ship? Is there another way to overcome that god-awful primary? Because from where I’m sitting, it looks like the damage output on this beauty really doesn’t justify such a massive investment of points. Does the Scum version of the Falcon just suck?

You've hit the nail on the head there. Two die turrets aren't great unless you can get 5 of them on the board with a reliable way to make those two hits every time (Advanced Optics).

Scum has four ships with a native two-die turret (Falcon, JM5K, HWK, Lancer) and none of them are in a great space currently. JM5Ks are creeping their way back into usefulness now that they have a cannon slot giving them another arc. HWKs aren't seen without the title which gives them a 3 die primary + benefits. The Lancer is the best of the bunch, but typically has the turret locked forward to utilize the title. The worst of them currently seems to be the Falcon now, and it was never great to start. The reason to buy the Scum Falcon was the upgrade cards and the Escape Craft, and now the reason has been narrowed down to "buy it because it is pretty."

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On 4/5/2020 at 3:51 PM, Cpt ObVus said:

Yeah, I was playing around with something like this, too...

No Bargain

(54) Han Solo [Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(6) Jabba the Hutt
(1) Greedo
(4) Rigged Cargo Chute
(4) Shield Upgrade
(4) Trick Shot
(3) Lando's Millennium Falcon
Points: 76

(29) Lando Calrissian [Escape Craft]
Points: 29

(43) Kavil [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(2) R4 Astromech
(4) Cloaking Device
(4) Spare Parts Canisters
(4) Trick Shot
(3) Dorsal Turret
Points: 60

(27) Sunny Bounder [M3-A Interceptor]
(6) Ion Cannon
Points: 33

Total points: 198
 

I know everyone is saying to keep the Escape Craft at the 12 point mark, and I may yet go that route... but I love the idea of having Lando’s (really excellent) pilot ability and Han’s active as well. It’s one of those lessons I may have to learn by trying and failing.

Anyway, Jabba looks really fun with Rigged Cargo Chute. Greedo tells me Jabba has no patience for smugglers who drop their cargo at the first sign of an Imperial Cruiser, but hey, even *I* get boarded sometimes. Y’think I had a choice? 😉

Just couldn't wrap my head around Kavil, but dumping cargo like that honestly has a lot of promise. There's really... No limit to how much you can cough up.

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I've been having some good luck with this build.

Han Solo (Scum) (54)    
    Trick Shot (4)    
    Proton Rockets (7)    
    0-0-0 (5)    
    Lando Calrissian (Scum) (8)    
    Hotshot Gunner (7)    
    Feedback Array (3)    
    Shield Upgrade (4)    
    Lando's Millennium Falcon (3)    
    
Ship total: 95  Half Points: 48  Threshold: 6    
    
Asajj Ventress (72)    
    Heightened Perception (3)    
    Ketsu Onyo (5)    
    Feedback Array (3)    
    Contraband Cybernetics (2)    
    Shield Upgrade (6)    
    Shadow Caster (1)    
    
Ship total: 92  Half Points: 46  Threshold: 6    
    
Autopilot Drone (12)    
Ship total: 12  Half Points: 6  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 199    

Forcing the choice between giving your opponent a 2x die reroll token & taking a stress and giving them a +1 attack die is fun.  0-0-0's range 0-1 requirement also encourages and rewards flying Han aggressively.  I like draining the timers on the autopilot drone early on to save it for a one shot bomb.  Hotshot gunner helps strip focus tokens.  Proton rockets focus prereq is a good pairing for a ship that uses Lando (Crew) for rerolls.

Ventress compliments the Han & Falcon well, with tractor tokens, stress, and possible green token removal.  Heightened perception can help generate opportunities to tractor opponents onto objects prior to the Falcon taking a shot.
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v8ZsZ200Z89X133W102W63W45W86W94W165W152Y125X72W42W94W92W165W160Y96X&sn=Millennium Falcon %26 Shadow Caster&obs=

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I have tried those mechanics before, without real success. Having always bonuses for the dices of Han is really hard, and the Lancer and the YT-1300 are lacking options for having more actions. 

Ventress needs more defense, and han needs simply more.......things. 

Asajj Ventress (72)    
    Heightened Perception (3)    
    Latts Razzi (7)    
    Deadman's Switch (2)    
    Contraband Cybernetics (2)    
    Hull Upgrade (5)    
    Shadow Caster (1)    
    
Ship total: 92  Half Points: 46  Threshold: 6    
    
Han Solo (Scum) (54)    
    Trick Shot (4)    
    Mag-Pulse Warheads (6)    
    Maul (12)    
    0-0-0 (5)    
    Dengar (6)    
    Contraband Cybernetics (2)    
    Hull Upgrade (3)    
    Lando's Millennium Falcon (3)    
    
Ship total: 95  Half Points: 48  Threshold: 6    
    
Autopilot Drone (12)    
Ship total: 12  Half Points: 6  Threshold: 2    
    
Total: 199   

this builds give Han a permanent calc, and another potential. It gives also Dengar retaliation. Prockets are good, but get in bullseye of a huge is far from easy. As for Asaj, she has force as calcs, can use the stress on the opponent to defend with Latts, and can take a lock with her action.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Silver_leader said:

I have tried those mechanics before, without real success. Having always bonuses for the dices of Han is really hard, and the Lancer and the YT-1300 are lacking options for having more actions. 


Han Solo (Scum) (54)    
    Trick Shot (4)    
    Mag-Pulse Warheads (6)    
    Maul (12)    - cut
    0-0-0 (5)    - cut
    Dengar (6)    
    Contraband Cybernetics (2)    
    Hull Upgrade (3)    
    Lando's Millennium Falcon (3)    
    
Ship total: 95  Half Points: 48  Threshold: 6    
    
Autopilot Drone (12)    - replace with Lando
Ship total: 12  Half Points: 6  Threshold: 2    
    
Total: 199

Docked Lando gives you pseudo-lock, allowing you to reroll all blanks at the cost of a stress. Take focus action, double-modded shots. You could also alternatively cut Latts and keep 0-0-0, and maybe toss in 4-LOM crew.

The other, even cheaper way to get sort of double mods, is taking bossk gunner, and just keeping missed shots and shooting again as a retry, not quite as good as rerolling blanks though.

Edited by Cerebrawl

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3 hours ago, Silver_leader said:

Ventress needs more defense,
  

Hate and the evade action give her considerable defences. Particularly if you jump from R3 to R1 and out to R3 again, (or out of arc with the turret active). 0-0-0 Also works really well with her, since you'll either get the calc to replace the force cost of stressing someone, or save it and still dish the stress. Stressed ships often can't keep up with her, providing another level of defence. Either that or they're token stripped and suffering on one set of their dice, in which case you're looking at some positive trades.

Heightened Perception is a cool trick, but I found it leaves her too force depleted and suffering natural dice too often. You just can't afford to do that on a regular basis, with a massive 80-90pt target.

All she really needs, with at least Hate and Trip, is to not play into more trouble than any one ship can handle. 2 large ships make that a difficult task quite often. Just goes with the territory. They're mostly well balanced enough to need dialling well, rather than leaning overly hard on the combos 😉

She does like wingmates who can keep the pressure up while she zooms and booms. That would be the Falcons job here, if it can do that....

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Posted (edited)
On 4/5/2020 at 10:51 AM, theBitterFig said:

I feel like other missiles aren't worth it, but it isn't like non-Missile Scum Falcons have been really successful, so maybe that's a case where conventional wisdom is wrong, and Missile Han is "Good, Actually."

//

I wonder... this is probably too jank to live, but...

  • Han Solo (Trick Shot, Millennium Falcon) 61
  • Autopilot Drone (-) 12
    • Would it be better to get missiles on Han?  I dunno... Maybe.
  • 4-LOM (Mist Hunter) 50
  • Koshka Frost (0-0-0) 75
    • 2-8 points to spare... probably Contraband Cybernetics on 4-LOM, but there's options.
    • Hrm... Missiles Han + Rigged Cargo Chute on Koshka and Han...  RCC on Koshka is already kinda solid...

Been playing around with something like this in FlyCasual, and I don't hate it.

  • Han Solo (Trick Shot, Concussion Missiles, Rigged Cargo Chute, Millennium Falcon) 71
  • Koshka Frost (0-0-0, RCC) 79
  • 4-LOM (Mist Hunter) 50

That missile on Han feels kind of nice?  It's generally a bad plan to try to draw too many conclusions from FlyCasual.  However, the missile giving Han a decent number of 3-dice attacks from the front, pointing the turret to the side, kinda felt like it worked.

At least, I think Missiles Han deserves some more experimentation.

Edited by theBitterFig

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On 4/30/2020 at 2:12 PM, theBitterFig said:

 

  • Han Solo (Trick Shot, Concussion Missiles, Rigged Cargo Chute, Millennium Falcon) 71
  • Koshka Frost (0-0-0, RCC) 79
  • 4-LOM (Mist Hunter) 50.

Looks like good synergy with nowt wasted. Generally a positive thing in itself.

Following on from Assaj as partner, who I'm clearly a fan of, and given I'll be getting my own Scum Falcon in a couple of weeks, I went further down the rabbit hole.

(54) Han Solo [Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(7) Hotshot Gunner
(4) Rigged Cargo Chute
(7) Engine Upgrade
(4) Trick Shot
(3) Lando's Millennium Falcon
Points: 79

(29) Lando Calrissian [Escape Craft]
Points: 29

(72) Asajj Ventress [Lancer-class Pursuit Craft]
(5) 0-0-0
(9) Hate
(2) Contraband Cybernetics
(2) Electronic Baffle
(1) Shadow Caster
Points: 91

Total points: 199

Starting with just 2 large ships on the board is a bit of an uphill struggle from the start, for me. So I don't think it'd ever be good, and there's obviously things I'd likely adjust after a proper road test.

Things I theoretically like. Assaj, as alluded to above. Lando docked seems neat. Assaj loves a coord and a reduced end game, for when he has to pop out and leave Han to die. Then he can take advantage of Shadow Caster.

Giving Han the rerolls is handy for freeing up the cargo/boost action. There will be stress and at least 3 large debris, aiming for more. Assaj spreads more stress by parking people in front of it. Lando can also pop out, system phase coord the cargo, and then hop back in. If he's timely about it. Should be feasible to get the Big Gun where it needs to be.

If Han misses, Assaj should hit, meaning the debris yank to set up the next turn.

It'll all have to happen quite fast, but there is reasonable kite potential in these 2.

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