Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Cyptor

What makes Legion better?

Recommended Posts

This is going to be a weird thread. 
 

Being an X-Wing player, and owner of a bit of much-loved Armada, I’ve been eyeballing Legion for quite some time now. I am really in the fence whether as to take the plunge and buy a core set, for X reasons:

1) It looks pretty fun. Unique in the systems that it combines, and a war game, which I really enjoy. 

2) It looks fairly expensive. When I first started playing X-Wing, I looked at the low single ship prices and thought “oh, that’s not too bad”. It actually wasn’t, because I really dislike flying swarms, but Legion looks more expensive per unit + more units needed to field a merely competent army = overall higher costs. I don’t know if I’m willing to do that. 

3) I suck at painting, and I don’t want to pay double the cost of what I bought my unit for to have them all painted. That’s reasonable, right? Having none of the tools I need for painting, I don’t know... A possible solution is to coat them all in a single-colored primer so they’re somewhat thematic and not awful (i.e white for stormtroopers, brown for rebel troopers, black for Vader, etc).

4) There’s not really a Legion scene at a gaming store near me, so play would be relegated to my two friends that also like miniatures/strategy games (although I’m fairly sure that they wouldn’t buy anything, we each have our own niche games that we own and the others play with)

5) I already sort of have a trooper war game to play? My friend owns a large amount of 40k models, so we play that occasionally. I’m not very good at it though, because I can’t practice, and that means it’s fun to play, but a bit futile. 


Despite all of this, Legion has been nagging me for a long time. 
 

Why do you guys play it? What makes it special or unique for you, and what has made you stay with it and not move onto another wargame? 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey there, I’m an xwing first player who has bought into legion. Here’s my thoughts in response to your thoughts:

1. Yes, it really is fun and unique. The big draw to me is that every game is different. Xwing 2.0 you know is always going to be 200 point squad and there will be 6 obstacles. The deployment is always the same. The objective is always the same. Legion opens up that unpredictability a lot. Additionally, you can go and have real fun with your terrain instead of just flat obstacles.

2. Yes, it’s expensive. ESPECIALLY for the clone wars factions, which came in for the plastic conversion. Average number of units in a list is 8-11, and most units are in that $25-35 range with big tanks or walkers being more and heroes being less. $35 is the new normal on the hard plastic. There are ways to play casually for cheaper-ish, but if you’re going completionist even for a faction it’s going to be pricy. The most economic way to go is 2x core sets of your era of choice. Better when you have a friend who can split the cost because they want the other faction (I split two clone wars boxes with a guy who took all droids and I took all clones). X-wing is definitely cheaper especially if you keep yourself limited to 1-2 factions instead of buying everything

3. Painting is a skill. Everyone sucks at it when they start. The only way to get better is to practice. If you find the process relaxing, great! If you find it stressful don’t do it! I enjoy painting as a hobby unto itself (learned it with the past few years of legion). If I hated painting I would not do it.

You can play with unpainted minis if you like. It’s not legally required outside of maybe Adepticon itself.

4-5. Having a few friends to play legion is the best way to play legion IMO. The competitive scene has gotten out of hand. It took a long time to do it compared to other games, but we have hit the point of raw power creep “buy multiple new or be outdated in turn 0.” That disheartens me a fair deal. However, since I play with friends who buy at a pace more akin to my own, it’s not an issue. You can have a lot of fun just buying 2x core sets of the same era and adding 1-2 units for flavor options plus an extra hero for each side. If the original trilogy is your thing, you could buy 2x core sets, Leia, Veers or Krennic (you pick), and a unit or two that speaks to you. If you like bounty hunters, try Boba or Bossk for empire.

It is easy to hit 800 points of relative balance this way....and if they only play with your toys, you control the meta! 
 

Now, why do I play? I started as “because some of my friends are buying it” (they wanted to for painting). But I discovered painting was kind of addicting and I enjoyed adding my own flavor to the galaxy far far away. I also really enjoy making terrain out of household materials and scrap with some paint - those 3d printed custom terrain items are cool and all, and I have some, but my joy is in making a rock formation out of nothing.

I still play xwing as my weekly game day activity and it’s my “competitive” game, but legion is fun for the things that transcend the game. If you want to play only for the sake of playing, it probably isn’t the game for you. And that is OK. You will get bored playing with only the core set barricades as terrain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like it for 3 reasons.

#1  I was looking for a game that's more grand scale then IA, this game is that.

#2  I am a miniatures painter because of this game.

#3  It is a really good war game, without being too complicated.

I own most of FFGs star wars games, armada, legion, IA, and x-wing.

My favorites in order: #1 Armada #2 legion #3 IA #4 x-wing. The reason I like x-wing and IA the least is because I like grand scale.

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Hey there, I’m an xwing first player who has bought into legion. Here’s my thoughts in response to your thoughts:

1. Yes, it really is fun and unique. The big draw to me is that every game is different. Xwing 2.0 you know is always going to be 200 point squad and there will be 6 obstacles. The deployment is always the same. The objective is always the same. Legion opens up that unpredictability a lot. Additionally, you can go and have real fun with your terrain instead of just flat obstacles.

2. Yes, it’s expensive. ESPECIALLY for the clone wars factions, which came in for the plastic conversion. Average number of units in a list is 8-11, and most units are in that $25-35 range with big tanks or walkers being more and heroes being less. $35 is the new normal on the hard plastic. There are ways to play casually for cheaper-ish, but if you’re going completionist even for a faction it’s going to be pricy. The most economic way to go is 2x core sets of your era of choice. Better when you have a friend who can split the cost because they want the other faction (I split two clone wars boxes with a guy who took all droids and I took all clones). X-wing is definitely cheaper especially if you keep yourself limited to 1-2 factions instead of buying everything

3. Painting is a skill. Everyone sucks at it when they start. The only way to get better is to practice. If you find the process relaxing, great! If you find it stressful don’t do it! I enjoy painting as a hobby unto itself (learned it with the past few years of legion). If I hated painting I would not do it.

You can play with unpainted minis if you like. It’s not legally required outside of maybe Adepticon itself.

4-5. Having a few friends to play legion is the best way to play legion IMO. The competitive scene has gotten out of hand. It took a long time to do it compared to other games, but we have hit the point of raw power creep “buy multiple new or be outdated in turn 0.” That disheartens me a fair deal. However, since I play with friends who buy at a pace more akin to my own, it’s not an issue. You can have a lot of fun just buying 2x core sets of the same era and adding 1-2 units for flavor options plus an extra hero for each side. If the original trilogy is your thing, you could buy 2x core sets, Leia, Veers or Krennic (you pick), and a unit or two that speaks to you. If you like bounty hunters, try Boba or Bossk for empire.

It is easy to hit 800 points of relative balance this way....and if they only play with your toys, you control the meta! 
 

Now, why do I play? I started as “because some of my friends are buying it” (they wanted to for painting). But I discovered painting was kind of addicting and I enjoyed adding my own flavor to the galaxy far far away. I also really enjoy making terrain out of household materials and scrap with some paint - those 3d printed custom terrain items are cool and all, and I have some, but my joy is in making a rock formation out of nothing.

I still play xwing as my weekly game day activity and it’s my “competitive” game, but legion is fun for the things that transcend the game. If you want to play only for the sake of playing, it probably isn’t the game for you. And that is OK. You will get bored playing with only the core set barricades as terrain.

Agreed. Painting is half the game, more so then IA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) Legion is very fun and like you said its super unique unlike many other games I've played. Has a way different feel.

2) Yes Legion is incredibly expensive to play competitively BUT if you want to play casually you won't have to keep up with every single new release and you can instead build an army for two factions and then just stick with that and not have to buy anything else. This way it wouldn't actually be too expensive.

3) I had never painted any miniatures before until this last week or so with quarantine extra time so I've been playing Legion for over a year with all unpainted miniatures and I know this opinion is going to be hashed SO hard by literally everyone else on these forums but you honestly don't need to paint the minis. It's not a problem at all; you get used to their grey color really fast and everyone will tell you that you need to paint them but if its not something you enjoy, just play the game.

4) I haven't been to play a game at a store in quite a while but I still have played plenty of games with my brother and friends. As long as you got some friends to play with youll get plenty of games played.

5) Hey if you're the one to own Legion your friends can't get more practice than you if they don't own it so you'll get more practice than them and be able to win every time😉

And to why I play it: Legion is by far the best game from FFG that I have played (with the possible exception of Twilight Imperium.,..that game;s a masterpiece lol) as it is so different from their other games. It has a feel to it as if you're actually commanding a battle. I never had that feel playing either X-wing or Armada but I have that feeling every time I play legion. Aside from the feel of the game, the miniatures are simply the best. Even unpainted the detail on them is just amazing. Legion is a great game that is super well made and thought out by the developers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) Legion game play is no where near as clean or straight foreword as X Wing. Though many prefer chess over checkers. The game play is clunky in fact and actually rather long. People who played other miniature games are quick to point out "but this game is so much worse". Doesn't mean Legion is a good game. It is an okay game that uses star wars toys. Without the IP it would be another rune wars. That doesn't mean it can't be fun it is just no X Wing.

2) Everything is monopoly money these days, so do we care what things cost anymore?

3) If you thought the plastic was pricey wait till you start buying paint. Painting looks super hard but really, it is a lot like painting by numbers. The 3D model surfaces really do dictate how to paint the model. Sorastro's videos are awesome for learning how to paint. Put on some music, pod cast or audio book and paint. Some of us really love painting which is why people spend stupid amounts of money on an okay game. It's a hobby, not a game.

4) Wait, you still have a gaming scene where you are at? Get inside and stay inside until the vaccine comes. After that, if there is anything left, you'll be disappointed if there isn't anyone to play with. Buy a small paint set and one core. Try painting. Storm troopers are the easiest to start with. If you can't get into the painting, stop. There are other games. In fact steam has video game versions of many board games. 😒

5) If you're already played 40k, then you already know what you are in for. So you either want to be talked into it or talked out of it. Figure out which it is and there is your answer. You don't need us to tell you what you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started with X-Wing, so thought I would chime.  I've pretty much stopped playing X-Wing in favor of Legion.

1. Legion is less reliant on upgrades than X-Wing. Overall, it is much more balanced as well. There are very few units that are unplayable for their points or severely undercosted. You see this more at high-level tournaments, but Legions tends to be more casual. With so many more units on your team than in X-Wing, you don't auto lose if you have one poor unit and auto win with one good unit. The objective system leads to greater game balance as well as more variety from game to game.

2. It can be more expensive than X-Wing, especially if you play multiple factions and in hobby supplies. If you choose one faction and stick to it, you can probably play for what it costs to play X-Wing, not counting hobby supplies. It is cheaper than other similar sized games, though, like 40K. I don't think you can really get cheaper than X-Wing for an ever-expanding game, though.

3a. I have never played a game where painting was required. You can definitely play with unpainted armies. We have a couple of younger players at my FGLS that don't paint their armies and it has never been a problem. Most of our tournaments consist of half painted armies simply because there is always something new that players are playing that they haven't painted yet.

3b. Before Legion, I had only painted a little bit, having played 40K for just a couple years until it switched editions. I learned to paint from other players that had painted for a long time, which made it much less intimidating, and have come to really enjoy it.I have expectations for myself on what I consider "good enough," and strive for that. I have found that it is another way to engage in the hobby, which has been particularly great when you have limited opportunities to play. Painting isn't a required part of the game, but most seem to really enjoy it as enhancing their hobby experience.Cost of hobby supplies can definitely be an issue, but I have slowly built up a supply as I've painted more. I started with cheap supplies and slowly replaced them with better ones. I still predominately use cheap acrylics rather than the better miniatures paints, but I get the "good enough" results that I strive for.

4-5. This is always the trickiest. I'm lucky in that my son loves the game and Legion has become our primary game. You may just want to start with 1 starter, which would allow you to run a 2-player game at about 400 points. It isn't quite the same experience, but it might be a way to see if you can get others interested and if you enjoy it enough to expand. A starter isn't much more than some boardgames. It seems like you have a real interest in Legion or you wouldn't be asking these questions. Getting a starter to give it a try with your friends would be a good way to start before getting too heavily invested.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Cyptor said:

Why do you guys play it? What makes it special or unique for you, and what has made you stay with it and not move onto another wargame? 
 

The Star Wars figures. I probably own around a dozen miniature wargames, if there weren't little toy Star Wars characters, I wouldn't have picked this one up. I generally disagree with FFG's whole approach to game design. It always seems cool when I read it, then playing is a disappointment.

Edited by TauntaunScout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you everyone for your help! Every one of you helped me make up my mind. Because of the power creep that was mentioned, it's probably a good idea not to try and play competitively and just play casually, keeping X-Wing as my sort of "competitive focus". From what I heard, though, it sounds like an amazing casual game. I'm excited to start playing soon! 

One more question: if I buy two core sets for value and troopers, would people want to buy an extra Luke or Vader on a site like eBay (or might I ever want two?) 

Thanks again to all of you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cyptor said:

Thank you everyone for your help! Every one of you helped me make up my mind. Because of the power creep that was mentioned, it's probably a good idea not to try and play competitively and just play casually, keeping X-Wing as my sort of "competitive focus". From what I heard, though, it sounds like an amazing casual game. I'm excited to start playing soon! 

One more question: if I buy two core sets for value and troopers, would people want to buy an extra Luke or Vader on a site like eBay (or might I ever want two?) 

Thanks again to all of you!

It is an amazing casual game.

You may be able to move the extra Luke or Vader on eBay, though the truth is even if you can’t the value of the double core is still there. You’ll want the double set of dice for sure, and the extra templates help.

You can field an 800 point legal empire army right out of two core boxes if you want... especially if you play with printed points value. With Rebels, it’ll be a bit tougher and you’ll want some more units to pad their numbers. They play very differently.

Rebel units do not last long to fire. Their defense die is pretty bad. You don’t want to invest more in your troopers than a heavy weapon OR extra mini. Use cover to your advantage. For them, it’s all about cover and terrain advantages (plus having more units).

Imperial units are pretty solid for gun line/point and shoot gameplay. The speeder bikes can burn down fast if they’re in a bad spot though.

For extra units, I’d definitely say each side should get at least one more hero (commander or operative), and then pad them with what you like best aesthetically. I play on an Endor like board so I love my Rebel Commandos as they look the part of the team that landed on Endor. Nothing says Imperial might to me quite like the ATST so I enjoy bringing that out (I was playing it BEFORE it was cool!)

Lastly: points. There are printed costs, where ffg tried to get it right. They don’t always succeed, so they have a points change errata in the online rules reference. For casual play it probably doesn’t matter too much if you just play as written or as errata’d (your speeder bikes and ATRTs are both better with point changes). Just agree to one or the other and play. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Power creep isn't that bad, but i do mainlu play casually. I believe FFG tries to balance things and is still balancing things, just not as fast as we (the internet generation) would like.

Legion (like most of FFG's games I've played) is a mish-mash of previous games. This one has fingerprints all over it from IA, Xwing, Armada etc. It has combined just enough of the good things too be fun and entertaining. It has a Star Wars connection going for it, and has added just enough artsy crafty stuff to enjoy the hobby aspect without being overwhelming or lewd as some of the other games can get.

It still has some rough edges and 14 bazillion cards and tokens and junk like most FFG games though, but if you've played other games of theirs them that's to be expected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I play because the ip I enjoy the game but like all fantasy flight games they are copy cats of other games.   X wing -wings of war.   So I play because it Star Wars.   I find has enough fun factor to keep me interested but I do not like when new unit make the old less play able plus being rebel player why don’t pathfinder have Entourage with one leader but I digress 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Fistofriles said:

I play because the ip I enjoy the game but like all fantasy flight games they are copy cats of other games.   X wing -wings of war.   So I play because it Star Wars.   I find has enough fun factor to keep me interested but I do not like when new unit make the old less play able plus being rebel player why don’t pathfinder have Entourage with one leader but I digress 

X-wing= Wings of war reskinned

Rebellion=Twilight imperium nerfed

Outer rim= Firefly reskinned

Imperial Assault= Descent reskinned

Legion= Bolt action mixed with other FFG games. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, buckero0 said:

Power creep isn't that bad, but i do mainlu play casually. I believe FFG tries to balance things and is still balancing things, just not as fast as we (the internet generation) would like.

I sort of disagree, mainly because FFG has historically sold us the new thing by making the new thing a little better than the old thing. X-wing 1.0 was super guilty of this, and while the creep in legion isn’t nearly as bad, it’s also only 2 years old and 1.0 was what a 5 year time span?

I really don’t like how shore troopers are pretty much the only way to run imperial corps in competitive meta.

I am not counting the mistakes of inexperience (Over valuing keywords on the t47 for example), and more looking at future releases. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

I really don’t like how shore troopers are pretty much the only way to run imperial corps in competitive meta.

Maybe I'm too optimistic. I feel lke the design team is still learning. I guess we'll see with these new releases.

Maybe intrinsically i expect some creep. I wouldn't feel the need to buy Mandalorian reaistance if they had more white saves. But i just bought another set of Wookiees this week too.

Shoretroopers got the benefit of black dice, critical, aggressive tactics, Veers still being cheap and good, coordinate, and designers in general, not being good generals (this happens in every game ever made)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Legion is good because you don't need 100+ models to have a fun relatively tactical game.

There are some ways to mitigate randomness, but as it is a dice game, sometimes bad dice happen.

Its a step up from 40k, having tighter rules, which are free, and more tactical options.

Its essentially bolt action with some extra rules thrown in on top, and cool star wars minis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, lologrelol said:

Legion is good because you don't need 100+ models to have a fun relatively tactical game.

 

This is why I play 40k using half the normal points. So instead of 1000, 1500, or 2000 points we play 500, 750 or 1000 points. The thing is it winds up being the same size armies of models as 40k used back when I started. The price increases in models wouldn't be too bad, if it weren't compounded by needing more and more and more of them every edition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since I didn't see anyone else mention it wanted to bring up the Skirmish rules, especially if you are thinking about playing casually. Only need a 3'x3' play area (same as X-Wing) and only 500 points instead of 800. If you decide to play "tournament" rounds it is the same length of game as a competitive X-Wing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

Since I didn't see anyone else mention it wanted to bring up the Skirmish rules, especially if you are thinking about playing casually. Only need a 3'x3' play area (same as X-Wing) and only 500 points instead of 800. If you decide to play "tournament" rounds it is the same length of game as a competitive X-Wing.

I have enjoyed this as much as anything that FFG has put out honestly. Sitting down and playing a game of Legion in an hour or less is a blast.  And I've been a monster with my wookiees and fleet troopers (which every one thinks are terrible in the regular game)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

I have enjoyed this as much as anything that FFG has put out honestly. Sitting down and playing a game of Legion in an hour or less is a blast.  And I've been a monster with my wookiees and fleet troopers (which every one thinks are terrible in the regular game)

I got to play a couple Skirmish games with a Saber before the stay-at-home kicked in. That was amazing, took out an AT-ST all by itself, along with a bunch of Shoretroopers. Skirmish is pretty fun and quick playing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the saber is broken in skirmish games, lol. (I was a victim of his saber.) But Bossk managed to weather the attacks and regen. And skirmish matches are fun. 

In response to the OP, I'd never painted before. I do okay now, but I've nicknamed my first stormies "clown troopers." But I got a magnifying class (only about 20 bucks), and some small brushes and I've improved a lot. My minis still don't look as good as the long-time modelers' but I'm happy with what I can do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...