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an actual thread about next points update

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1 hour ago, dsul413 said:

What problem is there in the fundamental design of the generics? Other than cost? A few points on a gravitic deflection SHG or PA would make them mighty enticing.

Not much.  I feel like they probably have a bit too much bump-resistance, losing a token but not tractor/rotate, but mostly just cost.  Overall, though, the entire package seems to have mostly been conceived with Ensnare in mind, and Ensnare was a mistake.

I think, however, part of @Black_Rabbit_Inle 's point was that it'd be nice if the ship wasn't only usable in swarms of generics. Alas, that seems mostly every CIS player's lot in life: their lists are mostly only playable as swarms of generics.

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5 hours ago, dsul413 said:

 

What problem is there in the fundamental design of the generics? Other than cost? A few points on a gravitic deflection SHG or PA would make them mighty enticing.

  I don't see it as a "fundamental design flaw" really.  I'm just trying to say that, until there are more valid choices for talents, changing the points of the Nantex won't really do anything.  Although I suppose if we drop each Hiveguard by one point, maybe some people will play five hive guards with snapshot instead of Gravitic Deflection. Since PAA's already get GD and Snapshot, the only thing they'd get from a points drop would be a bid.  This is more of a "wait and see what happens flaw" rather than a "fundamental design flaw".

  Now I do see a fundamental design flaw with Chertek and Sun Fac.  They were clearly designed around having the ability to tractor opponents pieces.  There is nothing that either of these pilots can do to activate their own abilities. Right now, the only hyperspace legal way to activate them is Tractor beam on a sith infiltrator, which requires you to give up the sith infiltrator's damage to tractor the opposing ship..  assuming the infiltrator manages to hit in the first place.  That's a huge amount of points to dedicate to trying to make these guys work, and having a decent chance of it failing anyway.  I'm really hoping the HMP will bring something that will help alleviate this problem.  If that happens than some points adjustments in order to make for reasonable Bug-HMP lists might be necessary, but we can't really know until we see the HMP in action.

  

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I think, however, part of @Black_Rabbit_Inle 's point was that it'd be nice if the ship wasn't only usable in swarms of generics. Alas, that seems mostly every CIS player's lot in life: their lists are mostly only playable as swarms of generics.

  Yes.  I consider that problem to be a "design flaw" in the faction and I actually think (hope?), that what's happening with the Nantex is meant to help fix that.  Basically, all of the Nantex unique pilots have to be used with other types of ships to be effective. Gorgol needs some really beefy ship if he's even going to try to be good.  Sun Fac and Chertek need to have lists that are based on tractoring opponents, which they can't do by themselves since they don't have ensnare. Berwer Kret should be used with droids. Right now Gorgol, Chertek, and Sun Fac can really only be used with the Sith Infiltrator, but the infiltrator doesn't seem to get much use (maybe that's the ship that needs it's points adjusted?).  IIRC, it looked like the HMP was pretty beefy, a droid, and I think I saw one with a cannon slot.  If that's true, the unique Nantex might all get better just because of the HMP release, and the faction might start seeing more lists with mixed ship types.

  P.S.:  If the goal were to make lists with Unique Nantex and a infiltrator or two more effective, how would you guys adjust points (considering what upgrades might be needed and everything)?

Edited by Black_Rabbit_Inle

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23 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Dalan Oberos Starviper - Actually very good and fun, but could be incentivized for more play. 54->53? 

Guri - 64->63/62?
Kimogila - 41->40 (Note I have no table exp with 5 of these, or multiple)
It feels like some of the Starvipers could go down, but I don't have enough table exp from different angles to judge that. 
HoundsTooths - Trandoshan 52->50, Most others could down 1 or 2?

Dalan 52. Xizor 51.

Joy 48. Kad 50.

IG2000s down 2 across the board and free titles.

Ahhav and Proach down 2.

Kaa'to, Bosskz and N'dru down 2.

Quadjumpers down another 2 across the board.

Scurrgs down 2. (Should've already happened last update when VTG went up 2).

Lancers down 2 across  the board, 3 for Sabine.

Scum falcon down 2.

Dalan (kimogila) down 2.

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2 hours ago, Cerebrawl said:

Dalan 52. Xizor 51.

Joy 48. Kad 50.

IG2000s down 2 across the board and free titles.

Ahhav and Proach down 2.

Kaa'to, Bosskz and N'dru down 2.

Quadjumpers down another 2 across the board.

Scurrgs down 2. (Should've already happened last update when VTG went up 2).

Lancers down 2 across  the board, 3 for Sabine.

Scum falcon down 2.

Dalan (kimogila) down 2.

Nice! 

You've tried these I assume? 

 

Dalan I don't think/wonder merits a 2 point drop: I loved and really enjoyed flying him. He was very good against 1-agility ships and pulled a lot of weight vs other ships. I can see one point because of sheer efficiency help. 

Scurrgs hmm. Maybe a good idea to drop to 43/44/46. Its really the Arc in comparison that is too good, but the arc at 44 makes sense too: its got 1 less hull (1 point at that hull amount I suspect, even if it raises the durability, can't be more than 2), but an entire 2 die extra back arc (that's easily 3-5 points more), while the scurrg has slightly better dial (-1 point)

 

Scurrg at 43 with Dorsal = 46. Vs Arc for 44, yeah... the scurrg looks overcosted. I suspect at 43, they make a lot more sense, and are maybe still 1 point overcosted, but I would try that first: its possible I'm wrong and the 10th hull really makes a big difference on survivability and the ability to rotate the turret, plus the better dial plus one conversion to shield is worth another point. 

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Posted (edited)

The points drops to various Extended Scum pieces have been decent already and I genuinely don't think we've seen the impact from that yet.

What I do know, is that I'm desperate to get back to the tables with them and find out.

It's all about the blends.

Edited by Cuz05

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Posted (edited)

This post is more of an overall vibe of the meta right now, as opposed to maybe specifics.  And I agree with what others have said, that it's probably a bit premature to make too many specific points adjustments, especially in Extended, which hasn't gotten much of a chance to be used to the extent necessary to know what's what.

I love what FFG did with the last points update.  I think it opened up the game a lot, so that the same few dozen pilots weren't showing up all the time.  By making the generics a bit cheaper, they've opened up lots of neat concepts that just didn't exist before.  And I really do like and appreciate it.

HOWEVER, I do think maybe they've created an unintentional side effect, in that in general now, it's usually better to add another cheap little ship to a squad instead of upgrading the ones already there when you're squad building.  And that's OK to a point, but I think it might mean that perhaps some of the upgrades are now, by comparison, over-costed.  Maybe you (and FFG) are OK with that, and maybe it WAS intentional, but to me, that seems like a waste.  Why print all these neat upgrades and abilities only to fill huge binders that almost never get used?  I mean, everybody knows the exceptions - Vader "needs" Afterburners in Extended, the standard Boba Fett build with all his upgrades, the Vultures with Struts and Discord Missiles, and so on, right?  But outside of those staples, it feels like a lot of the upgrades just aren't getting used much any more.  I think I'd like to see many of those come down just a little...nothing crazy, just a little.

Again, I'm really talking more about tweaks than anything.  I think the game is in a pretty good place right now balance-wise, but if I could change something, that would be it.   I don't want to go back to the era of 1st Ed, where it sometimes felt like you were wasting a slot if you didn't put something in every possible upgrade slot, but I think building those interesting combinations is part of what expands the game's options and keeps things fresh.  I would like to see a LITTLE more of that come back.

Thoughts?

 

Edited by direweasel

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2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Nice! 

You've tried these I assume? 

 

Dalan I don't think/wonder merits a 2 point drop: I loved and really enjoyed flying him. He was very good against 1-agility ships and pulled a lot of weight vs other ships. I can see one point because of sheer efficiency help. 

Scurrgs hmm. Maybe a good idea to drop to 43/44/46. Its really the Arc in comparison that is too good, but the arc at 44 makes sense too: its got 1 less hull (1 point at that hull amount I suspect, even if it raises the durability, can't be more than 2), but an entire 2 die extra back arc (that's easily 3-5 points more), while the scurrg has slightly better dial (-1 point)

 

Scurrg at 43 with Dorsal = 46. Vs Arc for 44, yeah... the scurrg looks overcosted. I suspect at 43, they make a lot more sense, and are maybe still 1 point overcosted, but I would try that first: its possible I'm wrong and the 10th hull really makes a big difference on survivability and the ability to rotate the turret, plus the better dial plus one conversion to shield is worth another point. 

I've played the ships yes, at the current points.

Dalan is ok, but i4 means he's not really an ace, and generally it's better to just go with the generics at 6(or 8 ), points less. If you want to make the most of him he also gets expensive quickly(for me that's generally afterburners and outmaneuver, to get the most of his ability, at that point he's 66 points).

Scurrgs got nerfed last july because of the list with 3 of them with turrets, VTG, and drea. Drea got a big nerf, and the generics went up by 2. On their own they(the generics) didn't deserve going up by 2, but the list was degenerate and got the oversized nerfbat as a result. Then in the last update VTG also went up by 2. They really do deserve to be un-nerfed. The generics maybe even a point more than the rest, I agree(so 42/44/46).

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My prediction: FFG will not change points in June due to the current distress. This meta has not been played enough. 

Maybe, very MINOR changes.

Sorry if this comment is already posted, TLTR.  

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As others have said I don't expect major changes because of the limited amount of play this season.

I hope Slave-1 goes up. The Firespray titles are still messed up from the aftermath of Han gunner's silly initial price - they raised Marauder massively and dropped Slave-1, but haven't re-adjusted them now that Han is fixed.

They could also bring the Quadjumper down a little, it hasn't been seen much since the tractor changes.

On 3/28/2020 at 7:11 PM, Cerebrawl said:

IG2000s down 2 across the board and free titles.

I'd actually prefer the title to go up and the base price to come down to compensate, so I could fly a single IG and not feel bad about it.

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3 minutes ago, Ysenhal said:

I'd actually prefer the title to go up and the base price to come down to compensate, so I could fly a single IG and not feel bad about it.

Base prices down 4, title up 1? Starting to really feel like a bargain at 59 points buy-in.

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I was thinking about why I felt so confident about these changes even though we're only 3 months in, and I realized, that's because we're actually 9 months in. Most of these are simply hold-overs from the previous cycle. Therefore, it seems pretty confident. The new cycle gave an updated guesstimate to make of these pilot costs.

 

Who's got some thoughts on the points? 

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