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freakyg3

How long is a game of X-wing?

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38 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I seem to remember some saying at one point that one round of combat is supposed to equate 5-8 seconds of real time combat.

@freakyg3 if the whole battle was 15 seconds, I'd hate to be a TIE Defender doing consecutive K-turns. Barf City. :)

5-8 seconds isn’t too bad... considering that Star Wars fighters were modelled after WWII fighters... a Spitfire can do a full circle in roughly 18 seconds (versions vary, as does impact of altitude) .... four turns of X-Wing to complete a 360... so 4-5 seconds would be a better rough estimate for a turn length.

It's pretty abstract though.

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Let's make some numbers based on the miniature scale, and the classic X-wing space sim games.

If the battlezone is at the same scale as the ships, that is, 1:270, and it is a 91 cm side square, that means that the combat zone is a 91*270= 245 meters long square.
Using the classic X-Wing space sims as reference, x-wings move at 100 meters per second in straight line and normal conditions at full throttle.
In the miniature game, x-wings move 5 bases fastest (speed 4, without boosting, to replicate normal conditions), that would be 4cm*5=20 cm per round, taking them 4.55 rounds to cross the entire field to reach the opposite edge.

That means that it takes an x-wing 4.55 rounds to cover 245m, a distance that it should be able to cover in 245 / 100 = 2.45 seconds. So each round equals 4.55/2.45=1.85 seconds.

So, depending of the numbers of rounds a game last, in universe, it would last:

  1. 1.8 seconds
  2. 3.7 seconds
  3. 5.6 seconds
  4. 7.4 seconds
  5. 9.2 seconds
  6. 11.1 seconds
  7. 13 seconds
  8. 14.8 seconds
  9. 16.7 seconds
  10. 18.6 seconds

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27 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Let's make some numbers based on the miniature scale, and the classic X-wing space sim games.

If the battlezone is at the same scale as the ships, that is, 1:270, and it is a 91 cm side square, that means that the combat zone is a 91*270= 245 meters long square.
Using the classic X-Wing space sims as reference, x-wings move at 100 meters per second in straight line and normal conditions at full throttle.
In the miniature game, x-wings move 5 bases fastest (speed 4, without boosting, to replicate normal conditions), that would be 4cm*5=20 cm per round, taking them 4.55 rounds to cross the entire field to reach the opposite edge.

That means that it takes an x-wing 4.55 rounds to cover 245m, a distance that it should be able to cover in 245 / 100 = 2.45 seconds. So each round equals 4.55/2.45=1.85 seconds.

So, depending of the numbers of rounds a game last, in universe, it would last:

  1. 1.8 seconds
  2. 3.7 seconds
  3. 5.6 seconds
  4. 7.4 seconds
  5. 9.2 seconds
  6. 11.1 seconds
  7. 13 seconds
  8. 14.8 seconds
  9. 16.7 seconds
  10. 18.6 seconds

Nice - thanks for the math 

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Most likely, the duration of a "round" in the game is variable depending on what is going on at the time. When everyone is in a close-knit furball, it's super short, after that, when everyone is circling around for another pass, it's longer. In fact, the same round is probably different lengths for different ships depending on what they are doing, with the assumption that it all evens out over a few rounds.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:

Most likely, the duration of a "round" in the game is variable depending on what is going on at the time. When everyone is in a close-knit furball, it's super short, after that, when everyone is circling around for another pass, it's longer. In fact, the same round is probably different lengths for different ships depending on what they are doing, with the assumption that it all evens out over a few rounds.

Einstein’s theory of relativity applies to x-wing

Edited by freakyg3

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14 hours ago, Azrapse said:

Let's make some numbers based on the miniature scale, and the classic X-wing space sim games.

If the battlezone is at the same scale as the ships, that is, 1:270, and it is a 91 cm side square, that means that the combat zone is a 91*270= 245 meters long square.
Using the classic X-Wing space sims as reference, x-wings move at 100 meters per second in straight line and normal conditions at full throttle.
In the miniature game, x-wings move 5 bases fastest (speed 4, without boosting, to replicate normal conditions), that would be 4cm*5=20 cm per round, taking them 4.55 rounds to cross the entire field to reach the opposite edge.

That means that it takes an x-wing 4.55 rounds to cover 245m, a distance that it should be able to cover in 245 / 100 = 2.45 seconds. So each round equals 4.55/2.45=1.85 seconds.

So, depending of the numbers of rounds a game last, in universe, it would last:

  1. 1.8 seconds
  2. 3.7 seconds
  3. 5.6 seconds
  4. 7.4 seconds
  5. 9.2 seconds
  6. 11.1 seconds
  7. 13 seconds
  8. 14.8 seconds
  9. 16.7 seconds
  10. 18.6 seconds

Intresting way to see thing.

I always imagined that the ships are actualy smaller than the miniatures.
Like, obstacles are representing a field of obstacles and the ships are big dots located somewere in the miniature base.

In my mind, what we, the players, are playing with, is actually some sort of war map where ships are represented by miniatures and not the real ships.

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1 hour ago, NerroSama said:

I always imagined that the ships are actualy smaller than the miniatures.
Like, obstacles are representing a field of obstacles and the ships are big dots located somewere in the miniature base.


That’s how it is in pretty much every miniature wargame. The miniature scale and the battlefield scale are never the same.

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Posted (edited)

This conversation gave me an idea. Has anybody tried to speed up a round of vassal or TTS and added movement and effects like lasers? That would be really interesting, to see your X-Wing battles in half a minute like the ships were really flying and blowing each other up. 

Edited by Cyptor

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4 hours ago, Cyptor said:

This conversation gave me an idea. Has anybody tried to speed up a round of vassal or TTS and added movement and effects like lasers? That would be really interesting, to see your X-Wing battles in half a minute like the ships were really flying and blowing each other up. 

You could see game replays in Squadron Benchmark, or in Fly Casual replays, I guess. But it still looked like game pieces moving. 
It would be hard to represent in real time game concepts like blocking due to pilot initiative.

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51 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

You could see game replays in Squadron Benchmark, or in Fly Casual replays, I guess. But it still looked like game pieces moving. 
It would be hard to represent in real time game concepts like blocking due to pilot initiative.

I always envisioned it as the blocked ship hard brakes to avoid a collision, thus taking their attention away from their action.

Though it probably would look funny in real time.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/25/2020 at 5:50 PM, Azrapse said:

Let's make some numbers based on the miniature scale, and the classic X-wing space sim games.

If the battlezone is at the same scale as the ships, that is, 1:270, and it is a 91 cm side square, that means that the combat zone is a 91*270= 245 meters long square.
Using the classic X-Wing space sims as reference, x-wings move at 100 meters per second in straight line and normal conditions at full throttle.
In the miniature game, x-wings move 5 bases fastest (speed 4, without boosting, to replicate normal conditions), that would be 4cm*5=20 cm per round, taking them 4.55 rounds to cross the entire field to reach the opposite edge.

That means that it takes an x-wing 4.55 rounds to cover 245m, a distance that it should be able to cover in 245 / 100 = 2.45 seconds. So each round equals 4.55/2.45=1.85 seconds.

So, depending of the numbers of rounds a game last, in universe, it would last:

  1. 1.8 seconds
  2. 3.7 seconds
  3. 5.6 seconds
  4. 7.4 seconds
  5. 9.2 seconds
  6. 11.1 seconds
  7. 13 seconds
  8. 14.8 seconds
  9. 16.7 seconds
  10. 18.6 seconds

So, if a game lasts 9 rounds,  that's 16.7 seconds of combat.

But those are X-Wing Miniature seconds, so they are at 1/270 scale.

Which means a 1:1 full-scale X-Wing battle would last 4,509 seconds.

That's 75.15 minutes.

Bill and teds excellent adventure GIFs - Get the best GIF on GIPHY

Edited by Darth Meanie

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On 3/25/2020 at 6:50 PM, Azrapse said:

Let's make some numbers based on the miniature scale, and the classic X-wing space sim games.

If the battlezone is at the same scale as the ships, that is, 1:270, and it is a 91 cm side square, that means that the combat zone is a 91*270= 245 meters long square.
Using the classic X-Wing space sims as reference, x-wings move at 100 meters per second in straight line and normal conditions at full throttle.
In the miniature game, x-wings move 5 bases fastest (speed 4, without boosting, to replicate normal conditions), that would be 4cm*5=20 cm per round, taking them 4.55 rounds to cross the entire field to reach the opposite edge.

That means that it takes an x-wing 4.55 rounds to cover 245m, a distance that it should be able to cover in 245 / 100 = 2.45 seconds. So each round equals 4.55/2.45=1.85 seconds.

So, depending of the numbers of rounds a game last, in universe, it would last:

  1. 1.8 seconds
  2. 3.7 seconds
  3. 5.6 seconds
  4. 7.4 seconds
  5. 9.2 seconds
  6. 11.1 seconds
  7. 13 seconds
  8. 14.8 seconds
  9. 16.7 seconds
  10. 18.6 seconds

I like your scaling idea.

But honestly, I do not think that the developers have taught about this factor when thinking about hthis game.

I would guess the right time for the movement, but you have to calculate to time to shoot. In 1.8 sec, you cannot shoot and make a K-turn.

Personnally, I would guess that each turn is about 7-10 seconds in real life. Time to make the maneuver, make the action (pick a lock, get concentrated (focus), ...) and shoot.

That would give a 10 round game that last ±90 seconds.  Since most of the 2.0game are finishing on time, I think it gives a good scale.

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33 minutes ago, Silver_leader said:

I would guess the right time for the movement, but you have to calculate to time to shoot. In 1.8 sec, you cannot shoot and make a K-turn.

Personnally, I would guess that each turn is about 7-10 seconds in real life. Time to make the maneuver, make the action (pick a lock, get concentrated (focus), ...) and shoot.

So I guess... you never played the later missions in the TIE Fighter campaign, right?

In that sim, 10 seconds on a TIE Defender was the time it took you to blow up an entire flight of traitor TIE Bombers, or your lost the mission. 🙂

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1 hour ago, Azrapse said:

So I guess... you never played the later missions in the TIE Fighter campaign, right?

In that sim, 10 seconds on a TIE Defender was the time it took you to blow up an entire flight of traitor TIE Bombers, or your lost the mission. 🙂

Indeed I never played TIE Fighter until the end. IO have more tendancy to compare live-action movies with dogfight to see the time taken to get a 200-ish points squad down. That is how I personnally estimate this.

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On 3/25/2020 at 5:50 PM, Azrapse said:

Using the classic X-Wing space sims as reference, x-wings move at 100 meters per second in straight line and normal conditions at full throttle.

 

Was it really that slow? That is terrifically slow. That is around 220mph which was slow for a fighter when WW2 broke out. 

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On 3/31/2020 at 2:08 PM, Jo Jo said:

 

Was it really that slow? That is terrifically slow. That is around 220mph which was slow for a fighter when WW2 broke out. 

It’s probably a little slow, but an X-Wing is definitely one of the slower fighters, right?

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On 3/31/2020 at 7:37 PM, TasteTheRainbow said:

Less than 2 mins. More than 30 seconds.


No way, a game of X-Wing is well under 15 seconds.


Proof:  

  • In The Force Awakens, in a span of just under 15 seconds Poe single-handily shoots down 10 TIE fighters and 3 Stormtroopers
  • In a game of X-Wing Second Edition, most games against a TIE/fo swarm go to time and only kill 5 TIE/fos on average
  • In those games, the player has a full 200pt force against the TIE/fo swarm, while a lone Poe is only about half of that (let's call him 100pts for even math)
  • Furthermore, the 10 TIE/fos of the TFA scene are 125% larger than an 8 TIE/fo swarm on the table (let's also ignore the stormtroopers killed, for simplicity)
  • So, in game, on average it takes 200pts 75 minutes to kill 5 TIE/fos 
  • In movie, it takes half of that (100 points of Poe) 15 seconds to kill twice as many TIE/fos (10 TIE/fos)
  • So, the game outcome is only 1/4 of the movie scene, meaning 75 minutes is 1/4 of 15 seconds, or that 

 

75 Minutes of X-Wing Play Time = 3.75 seconds of "real" time

It's either that, or acknowledging that anything involving Poe in the Sequel Trilogy is absurdly silly cinematic powercreep...

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