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flatpackhamster

What changes would make Interdictor Combat Refit better?

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Nobody plays it for the very good reason that it's worse at doing the one thing the Interdictor does. 

It occurred to me that since the AFmk2a is enjoying renewed interest due to Local Fire Control there may still be hope for the ICR.

 

My first thought was a card reprint to put a Weapon Team or a second Ion Cannon slot on it.

 

Another option would be a new ship card for the ICR to provide it with new features.

 

 

Any other thoughts?

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I’m honestly amazed FFG even put out the combat refit.


It kinda defeats the whole purpose of the interdictor- which is why no one really uses it.

Perhaps the should release a new version, that maybe has 3 slots for tech but drops guns or shields or something to offset. Just spilt balling ideas off the top of my head here.

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Posted (edited)

Title

Combat refit only

This ship loses its experimental upgrade slot. All hit and crit icons count as 2 damage each.

 

Idea behind it: it doesnt use its experimental upgrade and instead reroutes power to its turbolasers, making it harder hitting. Title slot so it can be unique and not exactly a hyper contested slot.

 

Thats what i would do, though exact wording would probably be changed with consoltation with a rules guru lol

Edited by DrakonLord

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1 hour ago, TallGiraffe said:

Salvo and a turbolaser slot.

Wouldn't it be more thematic to give it double ion cannon slots?  I can't think of anything else which has that.It could make for some interesting combinations.

 

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7 hours ago, flatpackhamster said:

Wouldn't it be more thematic to give it double ion cannon slots?  I can't think of anything else which has that.It could make for some interesting combinations.

 

It lacks the blue dice to fully utilize it and you lack weapons team for double blue crits. 
 

Replace a contain for Salvo then add in a turbo laser slot for a bit more options in your ship. Imagine Romodi with Spinal spitting out 6 dice out the nose with a CF. Plus add in Scramblers for serious Defense. 
 

Also a title that let’s it use it’s contains to remove a Critical hit would be cool. 

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Posted (edited)

Somewhat unrelated to the question but if the Venator is made as a Large ship for the Republic shouldn't the Interdictor be rereleased as a Large ship? After all the Interdictor is only 8 meters shorter and masses more than the Venator, and being Large would confer a modest amount of buffs to both Interdictor versions.

@TallGiraffe already said what I was thinking, a turbolaser slot makes sense since you get more red dice with the Combat Refit, and Salvo is a very good new token.

Could make a new title that adds a turbolaser slot that is exclusively used with the Combat Refit similar to how the Starhawk has Mark I locked titles.

Edited by Piratical Moustache

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, ISD Avenger said:

I’m honestly amazed FFG even put out the combat refit.

It kinda defeats the whole purpose of the interdictor- which is why no one really uses it.

Perhaps the should release a new version, that maybe has 3 slots for tech but drops guns or shields or something to offset. Just spilt balling ideas off the top of my head here.

Every ship in Armada has at least 2 variants, hence the Interdictor Combat Refit. TBF there's always one ship variant that is more popular than the other, to the point that the META dictates never to use the other one.

Naturally, I prefer the Suppression Refit because of its two Experimental Retrofit slots, but I occasionally use the Combat Refit. Much like people's attitude towards the GSD and Demolisher vs Insidious ship titles, I only use the latter if I'm using the former as my first ship.

In hindsight, FFG should've done what they did with Onager: create an Interdictor Star Destroyer and an Interdictor "Testbed" (or "Prototype"). The Interdictor Testbed would more or less be like the Suppression Refit, except perhaps it should be cheaper (85 points) and have only one ER slot -- because why would a prototype be testing 2 different technologies? The Interdictor Star Destroyer would be 100+ points, have additional red dice, possibly more shields and faster, have a Turbolaser slot (possibly instead of a Support Team slot), and 2 Experimental Retrofit slots. Also, by virtue of the Star Destroyer classification, it could use the Seventh Fleet ship title. (BTW it would be great if FFG added more Star Destroyer-only titles; the most obvious one being Death Squadron.)

Most importantly, the Interdictor needs more ship titles. I don't know why FFG only gave it the one, unimaginatively named Interdictor title. At least 3 Interdictors were seen in Star Wars Rebels: the prototype that Chopper destroyed, Admiral Constantine's Interdictor that Sato rammed, and the second Interdictor at the Battle of Atollon that was destroyed by Sabine, Ezra, and Clan Wren. I forget if there were more Interdictors at the Battle of Lothal. Regardless, there should at least be 3 Interdictor ship titles -- even if FFG invented two names they could be retconned as the names of the Interdictors from Rebels.

One of the new Interdictor titles could be Combat Refit-only and enhance the ship's offensive capabilities, perhaps by adding a Turbolaser slot. That would be the easiest way to enhance the Interdictor, similar to the Harrow title that improved the Victory Star Destroyer -- as opposed to an "Armada 2nd Edition" revision.

Edited by Reavern

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Posted (edited)

The Combat Refit has better flak dice. It also has generally better range with those red dice. And if all you want out of your Interdictor is a Targeting Scrambler and Advanced Projectors, it’s not a bad ship. Works pretty well with Romodi, too, now that I think about it.

Part of what’s made it look worse over the years is that the relative value of the other Experimental Retrofits went up (which made the Suppression Refit’s second slot mean more), especially vis-a-vis certain objectives. And part of it was the advent of Disposable Capacitors, and later, Heavy Ion Emplacements, two good offensively-oriented upgrades that helped the Suppression Refit far more than the already-embattled Combat Refit.

How to help it? More Ion slots don’t make sense; it has fewer blues to play with than the Suppression Refit. Maybe a Turbolaser, I guess I’d like putting a Linked Turbolaser Towers on it, sure. I think a title which gave it a Weapons Team and some other bonus (a la Harrow or Vanguard) might be best. Adding Local Fire Control or Weapons Battery Techs would be awesome.

Edited by Cpt ObVus

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, flatpackhamster said:

Nobody plays it for the very good reason that it's worse at doing the one thing the Interdictor does. 

It occurred to me that since the AFmk2a is enjoying renewed interest due to Local Fire Control there may still be hope for the ICR.

 

My first thought was a card reprint to put a Weapon Team or a second Ion Cannon slot on it.

 

Another option would be a new ship card for the ICR to provide it with new features.

 

 

Any other thoughts?

It's not bad with Remodi. Also Imperials already have 2 ship cards more than Rebels as it is, they do not need another medium base card. Another title would be needed though, offering more flexibility in the vain or Harrow/Vanguard. 

Edited by EbonHawk
titles

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A title to add a turbolaser and/or gunnery slot should be enough. I like single experimental slot vs double slot on supression refit, but currently combat variant doesn't add enough firepower to compensate for that. 

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Posted (edited)

As long as the combat version removes one of the experimental retrofits, there is not selling point to it. Without giving it a second, I don’t care. 

Edited by Church14

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33 minutes ago, Church14 said:

As long as the combat version removes one of the experimental retrofits, there is not selling point to it. Without giving it a second, I don’t care. 

See, I could totally be in the market for a ship with twice the flak for only 3 more points. Sometimes I just want the Targeting Scrambler to protect my guys, and Advanced Projectors with Engineering Commands all day to pass shields to the fleet, and I couldn’t care less about the Grav Well Projectors and Grav Shift Reroutes and Experimental Tractor Beams, y’know? I *usually* want that stuff, but it doesn’t always matter. I think it wouldn’t take much of a push before the Combat Refit is a widespread success. The flak alone puts it real close.

And yeah, when you’re in the market for a ship that does Interdictor-y things, the Support Refit is definitely the ticket. That’s just not always what you’re in the market for.

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See, I think this is a ship I would use as-is:

Interdictor Combat Refit (140/400)
Empire  - Author: Cpt ObVus 

Commander: General Romodi

[flagship] Interdictor Combat Refit (93)
 - General Romodi (20)
 - Interdictor (3)
 - Targeting Scrambler (5)
 - SW-7 Ion Batteries (5)
 - Disposable Capacitors (3)
 - Taskmaster Grint (5)
 - Projection Experts (6)
= 140 total points

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

See, I think this is a ship I would use as-is:

Interdictor Combat Refit (140/400)
Empire  - Author: Cpt ObVus 

Commander: General Romodi

[flagship] Interdictor Combat Refit (93)
 - General Romodi (20)
 - Interdictor (3)
 - Targeting Scrambler (5)
 - SW-7 Ion Batteries (5)
 - Disposable Capacitors (3)
 - Taskmaster Grint (5)
 - Projection Experts (6)
= 140 total points

The thing about the build, though, is that you can do all that for one point less with the suppression refit.  And get an experimental retrofit, and a little more average damage thanks to the effect of SW-7s.  Grav Shift Reroute isn’t just for second player, it offers a solid chance of messing your opponent up as first player.  Contested Outpost, Station Assault, Salvage Run and basically everything from RitR being the easy examples.

The single extra flak die is really the only selling point.  And you can’t even take gunnery teams, so you’ll be sacrificing your best anti-ship shot (which you paid for) to use that perk at all.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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2 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

The single extra flak die is really the only selling point.  And you can’t even take gunnery teams, so you’ll be sacrificing your best anti-ship shot (which you paid for) to use that perk at all.

Yep, that’s all basically true, and I definitely have to want that flak die, and expressly not want the second Experimental Retrofit, to take this guy. I definitely do hope the Combat Refit gets a buff eventually. Perhaps they’ll give us a card pack with some titles and other targeted fixes for some of the underused ships while we wait for CW stuff, or perhaps there will be some upgrade cards in CW which help old frames like this one. 

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Personally I think the combat dictor needs a 0 point title that gives it a turbolaser slot. 

Also an experimental upgrade that is more offensively focused also locked to the combat refit. 

 

Otherwise its 3 points for one less experiment and one black flack die. 

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1 hour ago, Grathew said:

Personally I think the combat dictor needs a 0 point title that gives it a turbolaser slot. 

Also an experimental upgrade that is more offensively focused also locked to the combat refit. 

 

Otherwise its 3 points for one less experiment and one black flack die. 

Losing the flak die sucks hard, but the worst part for me is that the “Combat” Refit has worse dice. I hate reds.

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1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Losing the flak die sucks hard, but the worst part for me is that the “Combat” Refit has worse dice. I hate reds.

It's strange to "hate" red dice because they're the dice you always roll (if the ship has them). With red dice, rerolls are critical. That's why everyone has been using Linked Turbolaser Towers lately; that one reroll per attack is usually better than adding a die.

The problem with the Int Combat Refit is that FFG swapped a blue die for a red in its front and side arcs, but didn't change the Ion Cannon slot to a Turbolaser slot. For other ships, when they change the type of dice they usually change the weapon slots. Considering that 5 of the 8 Ion Cannon upgrades require a blue crit to trigger and the Combat Refit rolls one less blue die, it's understandable why that variant is unpopular with players.

I think that most players would prefer if the Int Combat Refit cost 95 points and swapped the Ion Cannon slot for a Turbolaser slot; or cost 100 points, swapped in the Turbolaser slot, and had the second Experimental Retrofit slot.

As I mentioned before, I think that FFG could fix the Interdictor with new ship titles.

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38 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

They had precedent to go Turbolaser without Red Dice.
Why not Ions without Blue Dice?  :D

I think you're referring to the MC30 Torpedo Frigate. That one has always bothered me, but I've always suspected it was to enable the TF to equip XI7 Turbolasers -- which inexplicably didn't come with the MC30.

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4 minutes ago, Reavern said:

I think you're referring to the MC30 Torpedo Frigate. That one has always bothered me, but I've always suspected it was to enable the TF to equip XI7 Turbolasers -- which inexplicably didn't come with the MC30.

It was explicitly stated by the devs at the time that Dice colour are not inherently or exactly referential to the weapons involved.

That is explicitly to what the slot is for.

Which is why you could have ISDs with Black Dice and no Ordnance, and such.

You just gotta get over it :D

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The Combat Interdictor loses the experimental retrofit slot from the Suppressor and gains nothing, and its remaining ion cannon slot is less useful with fewer blue dice. It was never good, but Disposable Capacitors made it even worse when compared to the Suppressor.

I'd honestly start with removing the generally-meh ion cannon slot and then give it access to 2 new upgrade slots: 1 to make up for the lost experimental retrofit and 1 to make up for losing the ion cannon slot. I'd vote for a weapon team and turbolaser slot.

I still don't think it would exactly be tearing it up competitively (much like all other combat mediums, the base Interdictors are overcosted, it's just the Combat Interdictor is also really bad for other reasons so it's a colossal pile of fail) but I'd actually consider using it that way. If you want to slap Tua on for a defensive retrofit then you get a tanky little medium combat ship with some tech options. Not cheap, though.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

They had precedent to go Turbolaser without Red Dice.
Why not Ions without Blue Dice?  :D

Because ion upgrades are more strongly linked to blue dice than turbolasers are to red dice.

Every ion upgrade is in some way connected to blues, and only two (High Capacity Ion Turbines and Leading Shots) don’t suffer from not having a good number of those dice.

Whereas a ship with no red dice can reasonably take XI7s, H9s, XX-9s, QBTs, Spinal/EA, DTTs, and even HTTs (to get a crit through DCO/avoid Salvo).

Heck, depending on the flak HFZ is no worse either.  Being bold with the ion slot is only useful if the cards exist for it not to suck.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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7 hours ago, Grathew said:

Personally I think the combat dictor needs a 0 point title that gives it a turbolaser slot. 

The problem is that you still end up with a ship that is 7 points more than a Victory-II, and flat-out inferior in combat in every regard.  Maybe a 0-point title that let you equip a 5-point-or-cheaper Turbolaser for free (not adding the slot, just allowing you to equip a cheaper turbolaser directly) could help, maybe.

Of course, a Vic-II with QBTs at 90 points is still probably an overall better combat platform than an Interdictor with QBTs at 93 points, so...

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