Improperly Set Dial

[USCGrad90 884]

In a recent tournament, a player had a loose dial and when exposed it was between 2 maneuvers.  As TO, I ruled he should do a white 2 straight.  I'm pretty confident that this is the correct call, but in trying to find something in the Rules Reference or FFG sources, don't have anything concrete to verify against.  Does anyone know of a ruling by FFG or is this just a standard practice now?

Edited March 18 by USCGrad90

[theBitterFig 11,598]

1 hour ago, USCGrad90 said:

In a recent tournament, a player had a loose dial and when exposed it was between 2 maneuvers.  As TO, I ruled he should do a white 2 straight.  I'm pretty confident that this is the correct call, but in trying to find something in the Rules Reference or FFG sources, don't have anything concrete to verify against.  Does anyone know of a ruling by FFG or is this just a standard practice now?

In the First Edition FAQ, the opponent would choose between the two moves the dial is in between. (page 5, https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/4e/f0/4ef05c3f-2170-4bb0-9ac8-c5c2ff9ed83f/x-wing_faq_v441.pdf ).  This still seems appropriate to me.

I didn't find anything in the 2e Rules Reference or Tournament Regulations.

As far as I know, the only time someone is instructed to 2-white-straight is when revealing a red maneuver while stressed.

[Lyianx 1,434]

Nothing is in the current rule set for 2e, so its pretty much up to a judges discretion as to how to deal with it.

[DR4CO 6,234]

The dividing lines between the maneuvers means that the dial will generally be more towards one than the other, even if just slightly (I suspect this is at least partly why those dividing lines exist in the first place).

If it really is dead center on the line between the two, then... yeah, as @theBitterFig says, there is currently no official guidance. Realistically, the two choices are either to follow First Edition's ruling of allowing the opponent to choose between them, or choose one at random.

[JBFancourt 1,261]

@USCGrad90, I personally like your call.  I feel like it’s an off-putting rule for the opponent to choose. 

As the opponent it made me feel TERRIBLE when I had to do it back in 1.0 a couple times. It just feels too punitive and not .... friendly and impartial. 

The 2 white straight is just such a clear consistent and concise ruling that both can say yeah that’s fair. And it’s already a game mechanic. 

Of course, everyone is right. There’s no clear cut rule. But I liked your solution. 

[USCGrad90 884]

On 3/17/2020 at 10:54 PM, theBitterFig said:

In the First Edition FAQ, the opponent would choose between the two moves the dial is in between. (page 5, https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/4e/f0/4ef05c3f-2170-4bb0-9ac8-c5c2ff9ed83f/x-wing_faq_v441.pdf ).  This still seems appropriate to me.

I didn't find anything in the 2e Rules Reference or Tournament Regulations.

As far as I know, the only time someone is instructed to 2-white-straight is when revealing a red maneuver while stressed.

In 1.0, the opponent also picked your maneuver if you revealed a red maneuver while stressed.  This is one reason why I stayed away from that call.

[USCGrad90 884]

On 3/17/2020 at 11:31 PM, DR4CO said:

The dividing lines between the maneuvers means that the dial will generally be more towards one than the other, even if just slightly (I suspect this is at least partly why those dividing lines exist in the first place).

If it really is dead center on the line between the two, then... yeah, as @theBitterFig says, there is currently no official guidance. Realistically, the two choices are either to follow First Edition's ruling of allowing the opponent to choose between them, or choose one at random.

In this case it was too close for me to call.  

[Cpt ObVus 1,193]

What about just flipping a coin between the two maneuvers? It strikes me that at least then, the party with the ambiguous dial would then at least have a 50% shot at getting the maneuver he was presumably going for. 
 

And if he didn’t mean to go for either, then he clearly wasn’t paying enough attention, and can’t feel too bad about just getting what he gets!

Edited March 23 by Cpt ObVus

[LTuser 339]

That's why i prefer TIGHT dials..

[theBitterFig 11,598]

10 hours ago, USCGrad90 said:

In 1.0, the opponent also picked your maneuver if you revealed a red maneuver while stressed.  This is one reason why I stayed away from that call.

They did change that, however.  Once there were enough ways to get stressed before doing a maneuver, even in 1e that became 2-white-straight.

The things which didn't change when they went to 2 White Straight: {1} an opponent picking the maneuver between the two "in-betweeners" and {2} an opponent picking any maneuver when you set an impossible maneuver: using a B-Wing dial on an X-Wing with a 2-K or 1-hard, for example.  If you used the wrong ship's dial, and it was a legal move, you just do it.  But a move which your ship can't do gave your opponent the choice.

To me, it still seems like the best way.  That said, I'm also someone who is going to ask an opponent "what did you mean to dial in?" and probably just do that.  2 White Straight doesn't have the leeway for a casual correction of a simple mistake.

Either way, it'd be good to see these two points (in-betweeners, wrong-dial-with-impossible-move) more clearly addressed in 2e.

[Lyianx 1,434]

54 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

That said, I'm also someone who is going to ask an opponent "what did you mean to dial in?"

Casually, this is more or less what i do as well. Even competitively, 95% of the time, as an opponent, its not hard to figure out what move they actually intended to do, because its usually the one that makes the most sense. It just depends on the environment.