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PivotmasterDM1

What should FFG do about allies as heroes and vice versa?

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Although we don't know for sure yet, it's a safe bet that spider-woman and hawkeye are potential playable heroes for the story box. Now, since captain marvel's core 15 card set has spider-woman as an ally, should FFG also release a single card for captain marvel that can be swapped out with spider-woman? Or should they just leave it be and have one dead card in captain marvels deck? I want to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions on this.

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Posted (edited)

They don't have to do anything, and those cards aren't dead - they're still a wild resource, which is fine. And they will only ever be dead in X + Y match ups, which will be a very small percentage of the potential hero combos available to players. 

They could include a replacement card in those hero decks/packs that overlap (like the Spider-Woman example), but it's not strictly necessary and I don't think it's worth taking up a card slot for it, or the added deck building complexity. And it certainly wouldn't ever happen as an extra product. 

I'd much rather them feel they had the flexibility to include any character they like, in whatever form (hero, hero ally, aspect ally) and not have to worry about it, than feel restricted and fewer characters in the game. 

Also allies are very powerful, so one way of controlling the card pool is too have lots of overlap, which will prevent players from playing all the allies at once. 

 

Edited by jonboyjon1990

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Posted (edited)

Nah. It's all fine as is. They prepared for this by making those allies which are part of a hero's 15 a wild resource. If the ally is an aspect or basic card, you could always bring a backup card in the case that you play with someone who has that ally as a hero, or just let it be a resource card.

Edited by CaptainJaguarShark

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@PivotmasterDM1
"Although we don't know for sure yet, it's a safe bet that spider-woman and hawkeye are potential playable heroes for the story box. Now, since captain marvel's core 15 card set has spider-woman as an ally, should FFG also release a single card for captain marvel that can be swapped out with spider-woman? Or should they just leave it be and have one dead card in captain marvels deck? I want to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions on this."

Yes, they absolutely should include a replacement ally option for 'any' signature ally that becomes a hero pack.
There shouldn't be any disincentive to teamups with a hero's closest ally if/when they get a hero pack (i.e. Iron Man & War Machine), and a dead card (wild resource or not, that cards text is dead as a doornail; and that's a HUGE deal with an ally).

The Story Box is an excellent purchase to do it in too, since there's going to be so many cards there is sure to be room for a replacement like that, whereas it might feel a tiny bit more crowded in a one-off expansion.

I can only assume that we'll get hero packs for The Wasp and Ant-Man after the Story Box, since those characters are, like Captain America or Thor, very likely to get purchased as individual heroes.

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Posted (edited)

Can people not weight the options on this?

Captain Marvel- Ends up with one card that might end up as resource fodder if Spiderwoman end up as a Hero. {Rank: -1}
 Spiderwoman- As a Hero she has her own deck and can truly team up with Captain Marvel. {Rank: +40}

Literally the only correct option is to print a Captain Marvel signature ally in Spiderwoman’s deck. That way no matter in solo play or multi play they can always team up.

Edited by Hyperjayman

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2 hours ago, Hyperjayman said:

Literally the only correct option is to print a Captain Marvel signature ally in Spiderwoman’s deck. That way no matter in solo play or multi play they can always team up.

THIS

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7 hours ago, Hyperjayman said:

Can people not weight the options on this?

Literally the only correct option is to print a Captain Marvel signature ally in Spiderwoman’s deck. That way no matter in solo play or multi play they can always team up.

When you use words like “literally”,  “only” and “correct option” you’re trying to shut down any and all debate on a subject. Please don’t do that.

I for one disagree with that being literally the only correct option like I said in a previous post. I’m not wrong (nor is your opinion we should add a card with Spider Woman), we just have differing opinions and that is just fine.

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3 hours ago, DarkFate said:

Or they can add a new rule where you can discard a ally version of a hero character to heal or unexhaust said hero.

Came in to say this. Slightly different as it's a TCG, but VS System basically did this by allowing you to discard a copy of a character (by name, so could be different versions) to 'power up' a character with a +1/+1 for an attack.

Allow you to discard an ally that matches another hero for a decent effect (I like the ready, though may be too powerful). It can still feel like a special interaction without having to add new cards or anything. 

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11 hours ago, Hyperjayman said:

Can people not weight the options on this?

Captain Marvel- Ends up with one card that might end up as resource fodder if Spiderwoman end up as a Hero. {Rank: -1}
 Spiderwoman- As a Hero she has her own deck and can truly team up with Captain Marvel. {Rank: +40}

Literally the only correct option is to print a Captain Marvel signature ally in Spiderwoman’s deck. That way no matter in solo play or multi play they can always team up.

I don't really 'get' what your -1 and +40 ranks mean. 

It sounds like you're saying that two players can't play as Captain Marvel and Spiderwoman? 

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19 hours ago, PivotmasterDM1 said:

Although we don't know for sure yet, it's a safe bet that spider-woman and hawkeye are potential playable heroes for the story box. Now, since captain marvel's core 15 card set has spider-woman as an ally, should FFG also release a single card for captain marvel that can be swapped out with spider-woman? Or should they just leave it be and have one dead card in captain marvels deck? I want to hear everyone's thoughts and opinions on this.

Had this same concern (and as a Captain Marvel player it is a concern) that you are being denied the complete use of one of your signature cards, which you can't discard. Sure you still have access to the wild resource but you just lost your signature ally if Spiderwoman is also chosen as a hero. My view is all heroes should have full access to play their signature cards not half access as is soon to be the case with Captain Marvel. Hopefully FFG have considered this and offer a replacement signature ally (like Chewie(Goose) her Flerken.

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14 minutes ago, James Ravenwood said:

Had this same concern (and as a Captain Marvel player it is a concern) that you are being denied the complete use of one of your signature cards, which you can't discard. Sure you still have access to the wild resource but you just lost your signature ally if Spiderwoman is also chosen as a hero. My view is all heroes should have full access to play their signature cards not half access as is soon to be the case with Captain Marvel. Hopefully FFG have considered this and offer a replacement signature ally (like Chewie(Goose) her Flerken.

Sorry to be a pedant, but let's not exaggerate - you mean fourteen 15ths access right, not half? 

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In the Dr Strange reveal video, FFG stated their principle when they revealed the Iron Man ally card. These cards have Wild resource as a compensation for not being able to be played as allies in some games. Spider-Woman is already Wild resource so I would not be expecting any offset or replacement card.

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@DarkHorse
"In the Dr Strange reveal video, FFG stated their principle when they revealed the Iron Man ally card. These cards have Wild resource as a compensation for not being able to be played as allies in some games. Spider-Woman is already Wild resource so I would not be expecting any offset or replacement card."

A wild resource on an otherwise blank card is as much of a hole card as you get in this game, it's essentially worthless.

The Iron Many Ally is a Leadership aspect card, you have a choice to simply play a 'different' Leadership ally...or not play him at all.


If the rules changed and you could substitute 'any' other ally when a signature ally is being played as a hero, that would be an acceptable (albeit annoying) work-around as well, since the signature allies are just more powerful than the aspect/basic allies. Jessica Drew is Captain Marvel's most powerful thwarting tool, and losing that tool is a truly massive drawback.

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I like the idea that in these cases it would be sensible and fair to make the new hero's sig ally be the hero whose deck they were originally in (i.e. Captain Marvel ally in this case).  Of course, that robs 2 heroes of using their sig ally, so balanced but still a feel bad moment.  Replacement ally also sound like a good, but unlikely idea.

Would it be more palatable if sig allies had a double resource icon?

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3 hours ago, Trialus said:

I like the idea that in these cases it would be sensible and fair to make the new hero's sig ally be the hero whose deck they were originally in (i.e. Captain Marvel ally in this case).  Of course, that robs 2 heroes of using their sig ally, so balanced but still a feel bad moment.  Replacement ally also sound like a good, but unlikely idea.

Would it be more palatable if sig allies had a double resource icon?

Not for me, they’re almost always a centerpiece power for the hero.

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It is unfortunate that Captain Marvel won't have the option to swap out her Spider Woman ally if she's playing alongside a Spider Woman hero, but I don't expect FFG to try and "fix" it.

It's 1 card out of 40-50 in your deck, only affected if you play with one specific hero and still not completely useless even if you do.  I think allowing the ally to be played anyway is a fine alternative if it's a big concern.  Just imagine she's more actively supporting you for the duration of the ally.

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10 hours ago, zeromage said:

I think Going forward any ally in a signature deck that they are planning to make a hero should just give 2 resources on discard.

That would create a backwards compatibility issue. The simplest solution is to include a replacement ally in every hero that was previously a signature ally (or where they become a signature ally).

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Posted (edited)

I keep thinking that people are reading waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much into that box cover. What if Hawkeye and Spider-woman simply come back as basic allies for everyone to use in the context of those scenarios, thus keeping the heroes unknown? Now tell me how this is less likely than all the speculation going here. 😉

ADDED: I mean, look, if you take the core box cover for granted you would think that we'd all have played against Thanos at this point. How likely is it that the July box was designed/drawn by a department that had very little guidance from the game design? That's certainly not a zero probability.

Edited by Ascarel

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4 hours ago, Ascarel said:

I keep thinking that people are reading waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much into that box cover. What if Hawkeye and Spider-woman simply come back as basic allies for everyone to use in the context of those scenarios, thus keeping the heroes unknown? Now tell me how this is less likely than all the speculation going here. 😉

ADDED: I mean, look, if you take the core box cover for granted you would think that we'd all have played against Thanos at this point. How likely is it that the July box was designed/drawn by a department that had very little guidance from the game design? That's certainly not a zero probability.

Very true. Though I do hope that Hawkeye gets the hero treatment sooner rather than later, assuming he's not one of the heroes in the box.

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