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Galak Fyyar

The tale of Imperial Assault is not done!

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As purely a skirmish player, and decently competitive, I like the Whie Die as is. It's a calculated risk when attacking White die, that you might miss entirely. In listbuilding, you need to consider how to handle white die. Having more less powerful attacks (like Gamorreans - man they love hitting white die) or rerolls like Weequays help mitigate the effect of the dodge. And yeah, I've lost and won games on the white die - but that's part of the game. It allows you to make bold plays to recover a bad game, trusting in the dodge to carry you through. If your gameplan relies on the opponent never rolling a dodge on the white, then maybe it's time to reconsider the gameplan.

 

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19 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

More attribute-based interactions.

I like this idea.

 

13 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

you might as well be playing EotE,

Haha.  I like some EotE too!  I don't think adding a bit more "rpg" type things to IA would harm it.  I forget who had the great idea of an in between level (sort of like the classic RPG in the town or tavern or whatever, where you can restock everything, buy some basic stuff etc.  I guess it has that already in a way).

8 hours ago, Fourtytwo said:

It's never ruined a game for us.

Oh, me neither!  I mean it has "ruined" some plans of the Empire (less commonly the Rebels) but I would vote no way to getting rid of the dodge.  It is so fun!  So many good stories about being saved by the dodge!  Tons of laughs.  You have to prepare for it.  And if you care that much about the hard strategy, then maybe you could revamp it for more serious Skirmish games, but even for Skirmish I think it's a lot of fun.  You can always play chess if you don't want any luck.  I think IA has a good luck-strategy balance, personally.

5 hours ago, totalnoob said:

Most of the time everyone starts cheering and clapping with excitement.

Just saw that comment!  Totally agree.  Dodges happen, and when they do (even if it hurts me as the IP) I'm usually always laughing and enjoying some fun with friends.  That's what it's all about.

Some other tweaks that I forgot:

6. more traits?  Lots could be done with this!!

7. two new colors for dice (one for attacks and one for defense).  I guess a 2e could add some of that.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

sort of disagree with this.  Expansions post Bespin did a great job of updating.

I didn't mean the content so much as aspects of the balance, components, and overall business model.

In particular, selling cheap PVC figures in $10-20 packs seems somewhat predatory. I've heard that they need that money to pay for their license agreement, but Rebellion and Outer Rim seem to prove contrary to that assertion. Either way I'd rather see more figures in the boxes and no blisters (like Mansions of Madness, Journeys in Middle Earth, etc.), even if it makes the boxes cost considerably more. It's just fewer SKUs, which is preferable for stocking and logistical reasons. The inferior quality of the minis (especially compared to things like Legion and MCP) just makes the idea of buying the standalone minis a pretty poor proposition. They're not awful, but they're really not worth $10-20

But also it's too easy to go on here or BGG and find out that the Wave I special units are pretty worthless (RGC, ATST, Vader, Han, Chewy) and the only fixes that exist come in a $60 expansion and don't work in campaign mode (which many prefer) so Vader, Han, Chewy, etc. will never really be usable in campaign. It's kind of sad.

And then there are aspects of Skirmish which haven't aged that well. The skirmish deck system in general is a little clunkier than something like the elegant Gloomhaven cards. Especially since some of the cards can make it incredibly swingy and IMO a little too Magic-y where your ideal strategy includes finding a way to draw your whole deck in a turn or two.

But as a game system, I really do think all the mechanics are incredibly solid. It's still super fun and that isn't likely to change soon.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

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@totalnoob, @Fourtytwo, @Mandalore of the Rings, @aermet69, all your points about the white die are exactly why I used the word "adjusted."  No one in my group wants to get rid of the dodge, but some people have gotten salty when an entire mission is swung on the roll of that one die.  One of my friends even said he'd feel better about it on a D12, and even that was the most drastic suggestion.  But without other changes that's affecting game balance a lot.

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I think a new app update may be coming, but I think that if it was just an app update, he would have just said "Well, we do have a new app update." That's news, but it's not big enough news to warrant the hush-hush he's giving it here. But we also know that Imperial Assault is for all intents and purposes a "finished product line."

To me, there's only two ways to reconcile these two statements in a way that fits with FFG's "new" direction of "doing less, but making it count for more." 

1. The app update is truly gargantuan and is set behind a paywall. Like, a campaign with 20 - 30 missions that also perhaps includes support for players to make their own fixes or edits to units, and to publish those edits - essentially a mod kit for the IACP community.

2. A new Gloomhaven sized game under a different product name that features a conversation kit for certain IA figures? I would absolutely buy a Gloomhaven sized "Republic Assault" box set in the Clone Wars with 60 - 80+ mission, had new heroes, attributes, conditions, tiles, Seperatists  and had a compatibility kit to incorporate the old heroes. Or a similarly sized box set in the Original Trilogy that incorporated rules for heroes, allies, and Imperial figures too. That could be the send-off that IA truly deserves. 

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The more I think about it, the more I see the clues from the interview itself.

1. The Miniatures games are being separated from the Board Games

2. Fewer, bigger releases with more "staying power"

3. The story of Imperial Assault is not done

4. More Star Wars Board Games in the future

 

I really can't read this saying anything but "Imperial Assault is getting a rework." And if it gets a rework, that means they'll be putting it in its proper place as a board game and not a miniatures game (it was never really a proper miniatures game anyway – a good thing IMO). If you look at the original core set, it sells itself as a self-contained big box board game for $100 MSRP. Given the changes within the market, they could easily add the wave one minis to that box without a setback, and it it would probably sell better.

Add fully cooperative app-based gameplay and unit rebalances, and you have a killer product. And each box expansion after that can be around $80 (just look at Journeys in Middle Earth), including new heroes and allies, plus plenty of new villains. Fewer SKUs helps offset Asmodees logistical issues, fewer purchases reduces the barrier of entry and some of the major criticisms, more balanced (and probably more streamlined) gameplay means the fanbase will strengthen and grow, and who knows what they have in mind for PVP?

I can easily see a very bright and hopeful future for Imperial Assault.

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6 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

he'd feel better about it on a D12,

haha.  I don't mind using a D12...  just make sure to put 2 dodges on there!

6 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

"Republic Assault" box set in the Clone Wars with 60 - 80+ mission,

Sounds pretty cool, but unlikely, I think. 

Now, if they set it during the Sequel Trilogy...  I hear fans really love The Last Jedi and also The Rise of Skywalker!  (actually, I do like both...  just playing).

6 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

"Imperial Assault is getting a rework."

This seems more likely and also cool.

Once again, just give us something!

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7 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

I think a new app update may be coming, but I think that if it was just an app update, he would have just said "Well, we do have a new app update." That's news, but it's not big enough news to warrant the hush-hush he's giving it here. But we also know that Imperial Assault is for all intents and purposes a "finished product line."

It certainly was.  I am as confused as the next person on where we stand now, though.

Mr. Horvath seems, to me, to be more than a little impressed about IA's staying power.  When a game has that kind of staying power, you have to evaluate your stance.  Maybe your stance changes, maybe it doesn't.  There's a lot of math going on behind the scenes with that (development, amortization, etc.), and it could be that IA didn't make sense on release cycle A, but works on release cycle B.

My suspicion is that FFG will wait out this year to see how things go, and decide whether or not we get more figures, boxes, and/or campaigns after that.

[PERSONAL THEORY]

If we get another strong year, I believe that things are back "open" and FFG will determine what happens after that: for example a boxed set one year and a complete set of figures with some new missions the following year, or something else.  If we hold steady, or dip a bit, then we might get a "test" release to see what happens.  If we drop off a cliff (I believe FFG expected that to happen this year), then we can probably expect an app-campaign and be glad for it.

[/PERSONAL THEORY]

Only time will tell, though.  But it does meant that A) We need to get playing IA again (as soon as COVID-19 fades enough that we can go out and mingle again) to keep visibility up at the FLGS and B) I need to keep painting away.

 

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Posted (edited)

To have a big year you have to have product to sell.  The stuff I’m buying is like the ‘last’ of remaining product from online stores.  He said they are reprinting all the time?  Then why does no one have inventory?

Im hopin he it means they are incoming 

Edited by Ywingscum

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6 hours ago, Ywingscum said:

Then why does no one have inventory?

No-one?

Possibilities for a store not having a specific Imperial Assault product:

1. The store has already gotten rid of Imperial Assault line to replace it with other games.

2. The store doesn't want to order more.

3. Logistics - when they order more, they order with other stuff that may cause delays.

4. Distributor waiting for new shipment, publisher waiting for demand to reprint then waiting for shipment from manufacture.

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On 3/20/2020 at 10:33 AM, aermet69 said:

If your gameplan relies on the opponent never rolling a dodge on the white, then maybe it's time to reconsider the gameplan.

Quoted for truth.

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On 3/21/2020 at 11:24 AM, a1bert said:

No-one?

Possibilities for a store not having a specific Imperial Assault product:

1. The store has already gotten rid of Imperial Assault line to replace it with other games.

2. The store doesn't want to order more.

3. Logistics - when they order more, they order with other stuff that may cause delays.

4. Distributor waiting for new shipment, publisher waiting for demand to reprint then waiting for shipment from manufacture.

Depends where I guess, in Germany its out of print and the big expansions are already selling in the tripple digits, trend upward.

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Sure, Asmodee Germany announced the end of the German version long time ago.

I assume people would specify language if they are looking for a non-English version of a product.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/14/2020 at 2:41 PM, naitsirk said:

Thinking on a 2nd edition is not crazy (same as descent). They can focus the game in another era (clone wars or resistance) or even go mid eras (mandalorian-pre episode 7). 

I think it will works nice and of course add some point a rogue one wave to bring us vader and rebel heroes.

If only there was a game that had Vader and featured Rebel heroes.  

Edited by Rikalonius

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On 3/20/2020 at 2:54 PM, Uninvited Guest said:

@totalnoob, @Fourtytwo, @Mandalore of the Rings, @aermet69, all your points about the white die are exactly why I used the word "adjusted."  No one in my group wants to get rid of the dodge, but some people have gotten salty when an entire mission is swung on the roll of that one die.  One of my friends even said he'd feel better about it on a D12, and even that was the most drastic suggestion.  But without other changes that's affecting game balance a lot.

I've played Campaign almost exclusively.  While I've had some close moments that resulted in success sometimes and failure others, I've never felt an entire mission swung on a single dodge.  The dodge pip gets all the rage when it is just another mechanic baked into the design.  You can roll badly in any number of ways.  I really needed to kill an opponent once and I end up being short on accuracy by one stinking square and that turned the momentum against me.  It is only when the 'evil' dodge mechanic comes up that people are rushing to the forums to demand a nerf.  From my experience, it is mostly hated by the skirmish players, not so much by the campaign players, who probably benefit from it equally.  Ask yourself, how many times your hero rolled a dodge when a big attack is coming their way?  

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A few years ago FFG's reboot Mansions of Madness did well, well enough to think that maybe app driven board games are the next great new innovation. So they converted Descent and IA to an app based board game. After they did that, looked at the sales of those games and how the market was responding in general to app based games, they decided to do Rune Wars and Legion and drop stop development on new products for those two app driven games. That tells you everything you need to know what FFG thinks about those app driven board games.

What the future holds is a box with a picture of baby Yoda on it, because that is going to be milked for all it's worth. Probably not much more than what is in a small expansion but at the price of a large expansion since it has a picture of baby Yoda on it. Sure a Gloom Haven type game for star wars would be great but I don't see that happening. I see a box with baby Yoda in the foreground and the Mandolarian in the background with a $65 MSRP.

Disney has finally made something star wars that people like. Something that promotes their new streaming service. Something they really want to out in the market in a big way. Something Disney needs to be successful if they are going to continue this amazing success they have had over the past several years and not all of a sudden fall off a cliff. The license holder telling everyone baby Yoda every where on every thing is how you go from, IA is a done product and not sure if any reprints will ever be made to it is a great game who's story isn't done and something big is coming for it. Of course at this point more marginal products may be put on hold indefinitely and we won't hear anything more about this other than we have plans in the works.

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1 hour ago, Mep said:

That tells you everything you need to know what FFG thinks about those app driven board games.

Based this interview the two things aren't related.  He said the company was split into a board game division and a miniature division.  The board game division has produced Journeys in Middle Earth.

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4 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Based this interview the two things aren't related.  He said the company was split into a board game division and a miniature division.  The board game division has produced Journeys in Middle Earth.

Yes, which is why, oddly enough, I never made the connection between the two. You are very good at reading things that don't exist. FFG started to go big into app driven board games then pivoted into miniature games for those IPs. They also made a few other non-app board games as well. The fact that they aren't interested in doing more products for those app driven board games has been clear for some time. So why the sudden change from "we aren't sure if we will even do reprints" to "we're making new product" between those two interviews? It's most likely baby yoda.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Mep said:

Yes, which is why, oddly enough, I never made the connection between the two. You are very good at reading things that don't exist.

Sorry if I was unclear, the two things I was referring to was app-based games and miniatures games.  Rereading my post I can see where it would look like I was referring to the two divisions, board games on the whole vs miniatures.  The whole point of your first paragraph in the post that I took the quote from was regarding the decision to stop app based games and focus on miniatures games, wasn't it?  I would call that a connection.  "We can make more money doing X, so we're going to stop doing Z."  I just think the experiment is still going with JIME.

16 hours ago, Mep said:

So why the sudden change from "we aren't sure if we will even do reprints" to "we're making new product" between those two interviews? It's most likely baby yoda.

Yeah, I agree with that part.  Do you think Disney strong armed them into going back to IA though?  I mean, my first thought would be to put that content into Legion, but I guess they would need create a Merc faction.  I don't play (nor have I really looked into) Legion, so you probably know better than I if there'd be a be a better way to integrate them.

Edited by Uninvited Guest

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It's a long way from "Imperial Assault is not done" (read "Imperial Assault is being reprinted") to new stuff being developed.

Imperial Assault being under the boardgame "division" is nothing new either, from the designer names we have seen in the boardgames and miniatures games that have come out recently.

Still not holding my breath.

 

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On 3/20/2020 at 3:00 AM, totalnoob said:

I love the white die. As a campaign player nothing invokes the same sense of drama when a large attack is performed, resulting in near certain wounding - only to see the X reveal itself. Most of the time everyone starts cheering and clapping with excitement. A couple X rolls in a row??? Total chaos! I think it’s the most exciting and dramatic part - it’s always in the back of your mind. Take that away??? The game becomes much more rote. 
 

For the competitive skirmish player, I get the hate. But for casual campaigners it’s fun.

Yeah, I know what you mean.  We had a campaign mission with an ISB infiltrator that I swear was Jackie Chan or something, he rolled like 3 or 4 dodges in that mission by itself (same figure).  Kind of crazy and funny, it is one of those things we talk and laugh about still.

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12 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Yeah, I agree with that part.  Do you think Disney strong armed them into going back to IA though?  I mean, my first thought would be to put that content into Legion, but I guess they would need create a Merc faction.  I don't play (nor have I really looked into) Legion, so you probably know better than I if there'd be a be a better way to integrate them.

I expect all the star wars games to have baby yoda and friends. FFG loves to recycle art work so that will be used across all the games. The second choice models for legion will probably see their way to IA. Baby Yoda and friends will fit just fine into Rebel and Imperial factions in Legion. Baby Yoda himself will be some kind vital asset game objective and the other characters will be operatives or officers. I don't know how many SKUs will make it into Legion though. Maybe just a few. Same for X Wing and I am not sure how any of it makes it into Armada. Hence Imperial Assault can be used to up the product count. I don't think Disney would micro manage to the extent of them telling FFG to bring back IA rather than FFG putting together a package of products and them just tossing in Imperial Assault to up the numbers. I am sure FFG all of a sudden after years of not doing prequel stuff decided to put the prequel stuff into their games has something to do with Disney bringing back Clone Wars on their streaming service.

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On 3/30/2020 at 2:12 AM, a1bert said:

Still not holding my breath.

I've lived at very high altitude for many years.  My lungs are pretty strong.  I can hold my breath for a very long time. 🙂

Also, the wording makes it seem like more than reprints.  "The story is not yet done" doesn't really imply "because we are going to continue the same story with reprints of the same story"...  but I could be wrong...  Hopefully, we'll get something new (and reprints if needed).

On another note, being stuck in the USA due to Wuhan Coronavirus means I have more time to paint (albeit badly) my HotE figures...  Trying to be creative with the very limited selection of children's acrylic colors...  But it passes the time.

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Hey guys, 

Not sure if there's still anyone left here, but I remember how about a year ago, the IA Community made a courageous last stand and comment bombed the AMA with Andrew Navaro. We were rewarded for our valiant efforts with the confirmation that IA is in fact "completed", but then also had confirmation in March that "the story of IA is not finished." 

Any plans to do the same this year for the FFG In-Flight report on July 29th? I know that if we all rally and show up in force in the comments prior to the Report, we may be able to force some kind of clarification on what's next for IA. I don't see any forum thread to do so though. Any ideas?

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