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Armada: Clone Wars announcement at GAMA

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10 hours ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

Just as the ISD and MC80 didn’t come in the original core set, I wouldn’t expect the Providence or Venator to appear in the Clone Wars core set. Having seen this promotional art, I’m now wondering if the core set will be an Acclamator, Consular cruiser, and Munificent Banking Clan frigate? All are pretty iconic, as far as the Clone Wars is concerned anyway.

The Armada core set's asymmetrical ships made sense at the time, but I doubt FFG will do that again. The Acclamator will be a medium ship, the C70 Charger will be small, and the Munificent star frigate will probably be medium. But the Separatists don't really have a small ship. It would be unbalanced if the Republic got a small and medium ship whereas the Separatists only got a medium ship in the core set.

IMO the Clone Wars core set should either have an Acclamator and a Munificent, or a Venator and a Providence, or a Venator and 2 Munificents. I don't mind if the CW core set is a little more expensive than Armada if it comes with the most ubiquitous warships from the Clone Wars.

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anyone have base sizes for the most well known clone wars ships? 

I know they used a victory for Core Set, but I think it was finely calculated based on how close a Victory looks like a ISD. But this time I suspect we get mostly main-canon stuff. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Reavern said:

The Armada core set's asymmetrical ships made sense at the time, but I doubt FFG will do that again. The Acclamator will be a medium ship, the C70 Charger will be small, and the Munificent star frigate will probably be medium. But the Separatists don't really have a small ship. It would be unbalanced if the Republic got a small and medium ship whereas the Separatists only got a medium ship in the core set.

IMO the Clone Wars core set should either have an Acclamator and a Munificent, or a Venator and a Providence, or a Venator and 2 Munificents. I don't mind if the CW core set is a little more expensive than Armada if it comes with the most ubiquitous warships from the Clone Wars.

I don’t know that “balance” has much to do with it. Have you tried playing the Armada Core Set fleets against each other lately?

I remember the Vic seemed unbeatable for exactly one game, after which we realized that all you have to do is not fly into the front arc. After that, it couldn’t win.

I do expect we’ll get 2 smalls vs. a medium, or something like that. Three asymmetrically powered pieces fits with the starter sets they’ve used for Armada and X-Wing in the past.

Edited by Cpt ObVus

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Posted (edited)

Hm. Acclamator and maybe that ambassador ship from TPM (Charger?) for GAR. so a support medium and small  

 

Then CIS could either get a good combat medium (munificent), or the less effective large (Providence class).

 

I’m betting on providence class because  [insert clever reason here].

Edited by Church14

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3 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

I wouldn't be surprised if they went with a single Munificent & boatloads of vulture droids for the CIS, and a Acclimator, a Charger, & a few V19s for the Republic.

Best part is that we are a year or less away from new ships!

;)

This sounds like the most reasonable option to me. It might mean a more expensive core set, but I suspect that there won't be as many releases for the Clone Wars as there are for the GCW era. It'll balance itself out.

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1 hour ago, Grinoch said:

I would be happier if they didn't include ships in the core set at all so it would be cheaper and players could buy ships ala carte.

What sort of Core Set doesn’t come with basic game pieces? The whole idea of the core is: Here is everything you need to play a beginner’s game. Like this? Go buy these expansions!

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1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

What sort of Core Set doesn’t come with basic game pieces? The whole idea of the core is: Here is everything you need to play a beginner’s game. Like this? Go buy these expansions!

I would prefer it if either the core sets were faction specific or there wasn't a core set per se, just an 'Essentials Kit' with dice, damage deck, maneuver tool, range ruler etc., and then the ships came seperately.

That way, those who are not interested in playing both factions don't have ships they don't want, and people aren't forced to get ships they don't want more of because the expansion (non-core set) version comes with different upgrades.

At the very least, it would be nice to have these alongside a proper core set.

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10 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I don’t know that “balance” has much to do with it. Have you tried playing the Armada Core Set fleets against each other lately?

I remember the Vic seemed unbeatable for exactly one game, after which we realized that all you have to do is not fly into the front arc. After that, it couldn’t win.

I do expect we’ll get 2 smalls vs. a medium, or something like that. Three asymmetrically powered pieces fits with the starter sets they’ve used for Armada and X-Wing in the past.

By "balance" I was referring to @Rmcarrier1's belief that the Clone Wars core set would have 1 Acclamator (medium) and 1 C70 Charger (small) for the Republic, and 1 Munificent (medium) for the Separatists. That's unbalanced. The Armada core ship provided 2 small ships for Rebels and 1 medium ship for the Empire, so they were asymmetrically balanced.

What 2 small ships will the Republic have in CW? The C70 Charger is obvious. The only other two I can think of are the Arquitens and Pelta, both of which already exist in Armada. The CWA core set isn't going to be very appealing if it includes 1 or 2 ships we already have. Therefore, the Republic is most likely going to get the Acclamator and C70.

The Separatists don't even have a small ship that I can think of, which means they aren't going to get 2 small ships in the CWA core set. They're most likely going to get the Munificent star frigate, which will probably be classified as a medium ship.

It would be interesting if the Munificents always came in pairs, since in the Clone Wars they always outnumbered Venators and it usually took 4 Munificents to overwhelm a single Venator. Of course, CWA is a game and will have to be balanced, so it's possible FFG will make 2 Munificents equal to one Venator. So why not sell the Munificents in pairs at the $50 price point (same as an ISD) and a single Venator at the $40 price point?

If the CWA core set had a Venator and 2 Munificents, it would be a lot more appealing than an Acclamator, C70, and Munificent. Everyone is going to want multiples of the Venator and Munificent, so a lot of people will buy 2 core sets, maybe more. FFG will want to sell as many CWA core sets as possible, so it would make sense for them to choose the Venator and Munificent.

That art pic of the Acclamator and C70s don't necessarily mean the Acclamator and C70 will be in Wave 1 of CWA. Although, my hope is that Wave 1 will include: Venator (large), Acclamator (medium), and C70 (small). For the Separatists, it will probably be Munificant (medium) and Providence (large). And, of course, there will be Squadrons I packs for the Republic and Separatists in Wave 1.

What I really want to know is if and when CWA will release the Separatists Lucrehulk battleship? That would be an insanely awesome Wave 2 ship. But I have a feeling that FFG will wait a while to release that one because it would be even larger and more expensive than the Starhawk, which was $70. A Lucrehulk could easily be $100 and might be classified as a huge ship.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I would prefer it if either the core sets were faction specific or there wasn't a core set per se, just an 'Essentials Kit' with dice, damage deck, maneuver tool, range ruler etc., and then the ships came seperately.

That way, those who are not interested in playing both factions don't have ships they don't want, and people aren't forced to get ships they don't want more of because the expansion (non-core set) version comes with different upgrades.

At the very least, it would be nice to have these alongside a proper core set.

The Essentials Kit has been proposed before and isn't a bad idea per se, but it really only appeals to single-faction players, whereas it's not retailer-friendly or hardcore Armada player-friendly.

Firstly, Armada is not a single-faction-player-friendly game. Love them or hate them, FFG has made certain cards exclusive to a particular ship expansion (i.e. Spinal Armament in the Liberty expansion) so single-faction players either miss out on certain cards, are compelled to buy the other faction's ships that they don't want, or have to buy those exclusive cards off eBay sellers for ridiculous mark-ups.

Second, single-faction players will inherently buy fewer expansions than other Armada players, so what would be the incentive for FFG to cater to them?

Third, I'm friendly with the manager and some employees at my LGS, and they've admitted that they don't really like Armada because the game occupies so much shelf-space (Armada boxes are A LOT larger than Legion and X-wing), and there are basically two categories of Armada expansions: the ones that sell out immediately and are difficult to restock, and the ones that sit on the shelf forever (i.e. the Victory SD). The store prefers Legion because the Waves are more frequent and players tend to buy multiples of each expansion. Faction-specific Starter Kits would mean there are two different SKUs to stock, and one faction will always be more popular than the other, so one will be sold out and the other will sit on the shelf. Retailers don't like that.

Fourth, it's unlikely that the dice, damage deck, maneuver tool, range rule, etc. will change in Clone Wars Armada. Most Armada players already own all the components they need, so the Essentials Kit will only appeal to new players. In all fairness, Armada is a daunting game to get into because it's the most expensive miniatures game that I can think of. I doubt that an Essentials Kit will provoke a sudden influx of new Armada players. Clone Wars Armada will probably attract some new players, but it will mainly appeal to existing Armada players who are eager for something new -- that's definitely me.

Fifth, Armada core sets usually provide greater value compared to buying ship expansions, dice packs, and maneuver tools separately. Depending on what ships are included in the CWA core set, I will buy 2, possibly 3 (or more). I don't think FFG minds us buying multiple core sets, which is why they're priced so competitively.

In conclusion, I doubt that FFG will change how they do things for Clone Wars Armada's launch. CWA will have a core set with 2 or 3 ships and the usual assortment of dice, cards, tools, and tokens.

The only thing different I want FFG to do with CWA is release the core set and all Wave 1 content at launch. I don't want the CWA core set, then 2 months later, the rest of Wave 1 is released, like what happened with Armada and Clone Wars Legion.

Edited by Reavern
Additions

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

What sort of Core Set doesn’t come with basic game pieces? The whole idea of the core is: Here is everything you need to play a beginner’s game. Like this? Go buy these expansions!

Then call it a basics pack or whatever you like. It's a cheaper way for folks to get the essential game pieces, damage deck, range ruler, ECT, and get into the game.

Edited by Grinoch
Typo

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1 hour ago, Grinoch said:

Then call it a basics pack or whatever you like. It's a cheaper way for folks to get the essential game pieces, damage deck, range ruler, ECT, and get into the game.

Ok but what’s the incentive for ffg or asmodee to release it?  They make more money if they just stick to releasing a typical core set.

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5 hours ago, Reavern said:

Everyone is going to want multiples of the Venator and Munificent, so a lot of people will buy 2 core sets, maybe more.

That would be silly. Why not just buy the extra copies individually? If there's one thing Armada players have learned, it's that you only need a single core set. 

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4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

I am just floored by this statement.

in 30 years of tabletop war gaming, it is the CHEAPEST I have encountered.

I wasn't referring to the quantitative scale of miniatures games like Warhammer and other epic war games, wherein players can have armies of hundreds of minis and spend thousands of dollars. In comparison to those, Armada and Legion are much smaller in scale.

I was referring to the fact that if you want to get all of the upgrade cards in Armada, you have to buy every ship. Cards aren't evenly distributed by faction (Legion is better in this regard); FFG has made it so you need to buy every ship to get every card. If you get one of every ship, squadron pack, and campaign expansion, it costs over $1100. That's what I meant by daunting.

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1 hour ago, Formynder4 said:

That would be silly. Why not just buy the extra copies individually? If there's one thing Armada players have learned, it's that you only need a single core set. 

Have you ever worked out the math?

Armada core set = $90 (although it's perpetually on sale for $80 these days)

CR90 ship expansion = $20

Nebulon-B ship expansion = $20

Victory Star Destroyer ship expansion = $40

Dice pack = $10

Movement tool = $10

Buying the expansions and packs individually costs $100, and you won't get extra range rulers or damage card packs. Buying a second core set is a much better deal.

The only reason to get the ship expansions for the core ships is to get the unique cards in those expansions. For years, only the Nebulon-B ship expansion had XI7 Turbolasers and only the Victory SD ship expansion had Flight Controllers, until the SSD and Starhawk were released, respectively. The CR90 was the only way to get Leading Shots until the Interdictor was released in Wave 4. The VSD is still the only way to get Ion Cannon Batteries.

So there are certainly reasons to buy the core ship expansions. But it's better value to buy 2 or more core sets.

That's why I plan to buy at least 2 Clone Wars Armada core sets. It all depends on what ships are included.

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5 hours ago, Karneck said:

Armada is vastly cheaper.i can think of Lego sets for star wars that are more expensive.

Legos aren't a miniatures game. Legos are a plastic construction bricks toy line. There are no rules to playing with Legos; there's no winning or losing with Legos; hence Legos aren't a game. Legos are just creative and fun -- and expensive!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, codytx2 said:

Steve Horvath interview with Team Covenant on YouTube is a good watch. FFG is splitting into 2 inside companies; miniatures & board games. He stressed the 3 miniatures games are now Legion, X-Wing, & Armada. Wave 1 still scheduled Q4. 

Per the interview:

Wave I - Q4 2020

Wave II - Q1 2021

LFL license renewed through 2023. “The strongest lineup LucasFilm has ever seen from FFG.”

“Armada is alive and well and one of three miniatures games going forward. I love the Armada fan base.”

Edited by Rmcarrier1

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20 minutes ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

Per the interview:

Wave I - Q4 2020

Wave II - Q1 2021

LFL license renewed through 2023. “The strongest lineup LucasFilm has ever seen from FFG.”

“Armada is alive and well and one of three miniatures games going forward. I love the Armada fan base.”

Was great to hear that confirmation. I honestly thought Armada was on the chopping block but after hearing why Destiny was cancelled & that Armada was a top priority I am a lot more excited for Clone Wars. 

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