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The RPG lines are continuing! Pretty much just waiting for an official announcement at this point!

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1 hour ago, Flavorabledeez said:

This seems like the correct term, but the end result will still be the same.

I had a discussion with one of my players about where else they could go with this game, and we couldn’t really come up with anything. Regardless of how you feel about it, the Disney trilogy did not tread any new ground or introduce anything that a decent GM couldn’t create themselves or reskin something and give it “+1s” for stats.

And the things on the table aren’t any better. The Mandalorian doesn’t do much, and the new shows are based in time periods that are very fleshed out.

So until Disney decides to actually push something cutting edge (which I doubt is any time soon), it really does seem to be complete.

And this isn’t meant to start any “the new stuff is awful” spats. I enjoy watching a good portion of it. It’s just not adding anything that could be made into new rpg sourcebooks.

Wherr to go with the game? Sequel trilogy era book. Hight Republic Era book. Region books. Like nexus of.power 2 or Bstions of Empire.  Strongholds of the republic. Worlds of the Seperatist Confederacy. Prelude to the Clone wars...there is a lot they could do. 

Advanced players guide could easily address the few issues mechanically. 

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7 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Wherr to go with the game? Sequel trilogy era book. Hight Republic Era book. Region books. Like nexus of.power 2 or Bstions of Empire.  Strongholds of the republic. Worlds of the Seperatist Confederacy. Prelude to the Clone wars...there is a lot they could do. 

Advanced players guide could easily address the few issues mechanically. 

And yet, each of these goes further from the core of the line. While they will be of use to those that have already bought most/all of what's out there, they are less useful to those that are looking to start up. For that you need to go back to the basics, but reprints don't cut it for a new gaming division (even if of the same corporate overlord), so expect new core books repeating what we already have. So long as the rule changes are significant, that's a good thing as we can have a vigorous new line rather than weak branches growing from a dead tree. That's not because of my feelings about the dead line, it's because the game has effectively killed itself by being unavailable and now has too many books to appeal to late adopters (it's a perception thing), but those same people can likely be convinced to buy in on day 1 of a new line. And for those that say they will not buy a new edition...so what? They always want the new customers; no game line goes on forever and the company just loses more and more money over time by not switching. That's why almost every big game gets new editions every few years. It's not about the product being good or bad; it's about the $$$. All that can be hoped is that the new product is good while still bringing in $$$. The former is questionable, but the latter is almost assured with a property like Star Wars.

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3 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

And yet, each of these goes further from the core of the line. While they will be of use to those that have already bought most/all of what's out there, they are less useful to those that are looking to start up. For that you need to go back to the basics, but reprints don't cut it for a new gaming division (even if of the same corporate overlord), so expect new core books repeating what we already have. So long as the rule changes are significant, that's a good thing as we can have a vigorous new line rather than weak branches growing from a dead tree. That's not because of my feelings about the dead line, it's because the game has effectively killed itself by being unavailable and now has too many books to appeal to late adopters (it's a perception thing), but those same people can likely be convinced to buy in on day 1 of a new line. And for those that say they will not buy a new edition...so what? They always want the new customers; no game line goes on forever and the company just loses more and more money over time by not switching. That's why almost every big game gets new editions every few years. It's not about the product being good or bad; it's about the $$$. All that can be hoped is that the new product is good while still bringing in $$$. The former is questionable, but the latter is almost assured with a property like Star Wars.

You do realize what happened is effectively they moved office buildings. They just moved the line to a different department. They consolidated the RPG people into one bucket. That is it. 

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2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

You do realize what happened is effectively they moved office buildings. They just moved the line to a different department. They consolidated the RPG people into one bucket. That is it. 

And that requires them to say they won't have anything to say for a year? Right...

It's still a new company even if it is under the Asmodee. If they are going to stand on their own, they can't do it by just reprinting and putting out increasingly fringe products, especially after an ever-increasing drought in product.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, HappyDaze said:

And that requires them to say they won't have anything to say for a year? Right...

They didn’t. They said “give us THE year” at a point in time when more than half of it had past. 

 

1 hour ago, HappyDaze said:

If they are going to stand on their own, they can't do it by just reprinting and putting out increasingly fringe products, especially after an ever-increasing drought in product.

Not sure why the couldn’t. But I agree it is not likely. 

Edited by DanteRotterdam

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1 hour ago, DanteRotterdam said:

They didn’t. They said “give us THE year” at a point in time when more than half of it had past. 

That was before covid19 crisis shut down the world. Now you can add a few months to that year. The announcement about the creation of Edge Studio to manage all RPGs from both FFG and Edge was made the 11 march. France shut down completely less than a week later for two months. Nothing could be done during that time. Because of that Edge Studio's birth could not happen before May or June. and only then work could start.

Then for reprint the SWRPG is dependant of the situation in China. It seems it is not as simple as ordering books to be reprinted when you need it. Reprinting SWRPG was a problem for FFG, as long as the only place where it can be done is a single printer in China, it'll be a problem for Edge Studio too.

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Well there is another thing to consider. Doing a new edition means a bunch of outlay with recouping that cost a really long way away. Where as reprints are almost pure profit right off the bat. And it is possible that thenrequest for a year was taking covid19 into effect. Considering china has been pretty shut down. 

If i were them i would do reprints to get cashflow. Because there is nothing prevemting them from working on stuff while doing the reprints

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What if they did a consolidated second edition book?  A single CRB that updates rules and could be used across themes.  I guess that might kill sales of the other CRBs.  So maybe a "rules expansion" or "game guide" or some other stand alone book that updates the rules.  Idk, just brainstorming, reprints are probably the way to go.

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Just now, Inquisitor Tremayne said:

What if they did a consolidated second edition book?  A single CRB that updates rules and could be used across themes.  I guess that might kill sales of the other CRBs.  So maybe a "rules expansion" or "game guide" or some other stand alone book that updates the rules.  Idk, just brainstorming, reprints are probably the way to go.

Basically the advanced players guide for genesys but done for star wars. I have suggested it before. Use it to update vehicle rules. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/24/2020 at 6:10 AM, HappyDaze said:

And yet, each of these goes further from the core of the line. While they will be of use to those that have already bought most/all of what's out there, they are less useful to those that are looking to start up. For that you need to go back to the basics, but reprints don't cut it for a new gaming division (even if of the same corporate overlord), so expect new core books repeating what we already have. So long as the rule changes are significant, that's a good thing as we can have a vigorous new line rather than weak branches growing from a dead tree. That's not because of my feelings about the dead line, it's because the game has effectively killed itself by being unavailable and now has too many books to appeal to late adopters (it's a perception thing), but those same people can likely be convinced to buy in on day 1 of a new line. And for those that say they will not buy a new edition...so what? They always want the new customers; no game line goes on forever and the company just loses more and more money over time by not switching. That's why almost every big game gets new editions every few years. It's not about the product being good or bad; it's about the $$$. All that can be hoped is that the new product is good while still bringing in $$$. The former is questionable, but the latter is almost assured with a property like Star Wars.

I actually agree with this.

When FFG first started doing their line of Star Wars RPGs they were a hard sell to my regular group. There were comments like “we all have to be (theme here)? That’s too limited.” Of course after playing the game they could see the real nuance of character design/creation. But we’ve played through all three lines, and fun times have been had, but it still feels like it’s missing something.

That something is the Star Wars mix of characters most people are familiar with. A group of characters with very diverse backgrounds and skills that can lead to multiple themes in an adventure. Not to say that the current lines don’t have that, but they’re not apparent at a first look. That can (and has) turned off a lot of potential players.

If they want to advance the line forward, this is the kind of core book they need to make: Something that can pull together and handle a variety  of characters like a former soldier turned rogue smuggler from the outer rim who finds himself enamored by a rebellion inspiring princess and a farmboy space wizard/knight in training that unite to stop a dark lord. 
 

This would bring in new players and old ones can still buy the sourcebooks they release for it, since they should still use the same narrative style system but with corrections and advancements to it.
 

Edit: looks like the thread leaned this way after HappyDaze’s comment (always read the entire thread). 

Edited by Flavorabledeez

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3 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

If they want to advance the line forward, this is the kind of core book they need to make: Something that can pull together and handle a variety like a former soldier turned rogue smuggler from the outer rim who finds himself enamored by a rebellion inspiring princess and a farmboy space wizard/knight in training that unite to stop a dark lord. 

Han Solo is a Smuggler/Scoundrel who optionally also bought the Imperial Academy generic spec. Optionally, because he never displays sign of being a soldier in the OT, or ever, really. He was an Imperial for, like, five minutes.

Luke is either just a Warrior/Starfighter Ace, or an Ace/Pilot/Force-Sensitive Emergent.

The game handles these just fine.

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22 minutes ago, Flavorabledeez said:

That something is the Star Wars mix of characters most people are familiar with. A group of characters with very diverse backgrounds and skills that can lead to multiple themes in an adventure. Not to say that the current lines don’t have that, but they’re not apparent at a first look. That can (and has) turned off a lot of potential players.

 

Not sure how that is the system’s fault. Also, never experienced this at all with three different game groups. 

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1 hour ago, micheldebruyn said:

Han Solo is a Smuggler/Scoundrel who optionally also bought the Imperial Academy generic spec. Optionally, because he never displays sign of being a soldier in the OT, or ever, really. He was an Imperial for, like, five minutes.

Luke is either just a Warrior/Starfighter Ace, or an Ace/Pilot/Force-Sensitive Emergent.

The game handles these just fine.

Depending on how the player views Luke, that’s two different core books that’s needed to play both Han and Luke. If said player goes Warrior/Starfighter, it’s also going to cause the GM to do some finagling with the “theme systems” that each core book has. I don’t know many GMs new to a game system who would want to try that, so there’s a turnoff for bringing people into the game.

And that’s the overall point I really wanted to make: of course three systems can handle a good variety of character templates, but with each core book essentially forcing a theme on you which are divided between all individual character arcs from the main characters I can see where new players would not find that appealing. 
 

Don’t get me wrong here. I’ve enjoyed how the games allow you to deeply explore those themes and automatically focus a character party from the word “go,” but I can see where some people won’t like that and want to focus more on the differences. That’s what I think a new core rulebook could establish. You have to look at it from the perspective of a new player.

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Each of the 3 core rulebooks are about 450 pages long. Excluding all the duplicate rules, you would still need to add at least 150 pages to consolidate the 3 CRBs into 1 book.

That's 600 pages. Not impossible, but the cost would go up from 60 USD to... what? 80? More?

That can be a big deterrent for new players as well.

Although if it tweaked the vehicle rules and just cleaned up some minor issues without being a new edition (i.e.: allowing all the other supplements to be used with just minor errata), I'd be okay with it

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3 minutes ago, salamar_dree said:

Each of the 3 core rulebooks are about 450 pages long. Excluding all the duplicate rules, you would still need to add at least 150 pages to consolidate the 3 CRBs into 1 book.

That's 600 pages. Not impossible, but the cost would go up from 60 USD to... what? 80? More?

That can be a big deterrent for new players as well.

Although if it tweaked the vehicle rules and just cleaned up some minor issues without being a new edition (i.e.: allowing all the other supplements to be used with just minor errata), I'd be okay with it

Oh yeah. Encompassing everything would be a serious tome. 
 

But revised rules with new character options (or even new takes on old ones) that allowed for mixed themes? That’s an excellent way to go. It’s something for both new and old players

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:

Depending on how the player views Luke, that’s two different core books that’s needed to play both Han and Luke. If said player goes Warrior/Starfighter, it’s also going to cause the GM to do some finagling with the “theme systems” that each core book has. I don’t know many GMs new to a game system who would want to try that, so there’s a turnoff for bringing people into the game.

It's been 7-8 years. The dead horse is decomposed. Nothing left to beat.

Quote

And that’s the overall point I really wanted to make: of course three systems can handle a good variety of character templates, but with each core book essentially forcing a theme on you which are divided between all individual character arcs from the main characters I can see where new players would not find that appealing. 

It's one system, three setting. Or more accurately, three splatbooks.

Quote

Oh yeah. Encompassing everything would be a serious tome. 

You'd do four tomes.

One Core Book, with the rules, and some careers, two from each setting, say Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, Diplomat, Engineer, Guardian, and Mystic, and a bunch of gear and ships and adversaries common to everything Star Wars. Possibly mildly updated.

And then you add the OotE, AoR and F&F splatbooks, which no longer have the core rules in them, with the rest of it.

Edited by micheldebruyn

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2 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

It's been 7-8 years. The dead horse is decomposed. Nothing left to beat.

It's one system, three setting. Or more accurately, three splatbooks.

You'd do four tomes.

One Core Book, with the rules, and some careers, two from each setting, say Smuggler, Bounty Hunter, Diplomat, Engineer, Guardian, and Mystic, and a bunch of gear and ships and adversaries common to everything Star Wars. Possibly mildly updated.

And then you add the OotE, AoR and F&F splatbooks, which no longer have the core rules in them, with the rest of it.

Why. Qe just have the core book appropriate to their character. Problem Solved

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Posted (edited)

I would buy combined subsystems books.

Character Creation: Rules on creating characters with all the skills, talents, advanced options and classes from all previous books. How to create new classes chapter.

How to Play Guide: Basics of dice rolling, structured play rules, narrative play rules, using the Force.

Equipment: Weapons, armor, gear from all books plus rules on damage, repairs, modifications, attachments. Chapter on crafting. Chapter for referees making new gear. Advanced or cleared up trading rules?

Vehicles: All previous vehicles of any size plus rules on damage, repairs, modifications, detailed vehicle combat. Chapter on designing and building new vehicles.

Adversaries: All adversaries previously released organized by era and/or type chapters. Chapter on creating your own with list of NPC abilities/talents.

Galaxy Guide: All the planet pages previously released, plus chapters describing the various areas of space, sectors, organizations. I would possibly split these Galaxy Guides into setting guides instead with the same topics. As in one Galaxy Guide for Rebel era, Clone Wars, Old Republic, New Republic/Order era, etc.

That's at least 6 books that fans would be more then willing to buy in my opinion. It makes it easier to grab one of those books then try to leaf through a mammoth 600-page binder-cracker each time. IMHO Most of us fans would buy all of these books keeping the line alive. Edge Studios could quickly cash in since most of this would be just reorganizing, editing, and tweaking older materials as opposed to the longer process of new materials. A quick method for the company to cash in, be successful, and lead to new and greater things Star Wars or not.

Edited by Sturn

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42 minutes ago, Sturn said:

Equipment: Weapons, armor, gear from all books plus rules on damage, repairs, modifications, attachments. Chapter on crafting. Chapter for referees making new gear. Advanced or cleared up trading rules?

Vehicles: All previous vehicles of any size plus rules on damage, repairs, modifications, detailed vehicle combat. Chapter on designing and building new vehicles.

Adversaries: All adversaries previously released organized by era and/or type chapters. Chapter on creating your own with list of NPC abilities/talents.

Although not exactly complete, we have all three of those books. The additional information you are talking about would be interesting, however. Perhaps a single book with the additional information you mention.

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3 hours ago, Sturn said:

That's at least 6 books that fans would be more then willing to buy in my opinion.

 

3 hours ago, Sturn said:

Most of us fans would buy all of these books keeping the line alive.

Not to be rude, but I am not sure anyone speaks for “us fans” here. As every topic here shows there are at least as many opinions as there are fans. 

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I wouldn't be happy with just an expansion for the current game (I know, everyone is surprised) because I think many of the fundamentals of the FFG line are terrible.

Examples:

  • Specialization Talent Trees that guide/force development according to an archetype. Some people like class-based games, some don't. For SW, I don't.
  • Talents...too many talents on high XP characters. I'd rather PCs have fewer but more powerful talents. I don't even mind talents that rank up (Point Blank 4 isn't any harder to remember to fully use as Point Blank 1), I just don't want characters with 20+ distinct talents.
  • Hit Point/Wound Attrition Battles Starring Soak where it's so easy to hit, but so unlikely that a single hit from a military blaster rifle will be meaningful. I'd much rather the game focus on avoiding being hit but any/every hit being more meaningful.
  • Critically Lame Critical Hits that just bore the crap out of me. The critical hits need to be made more nasty yet happen more rarely.
  • Healing Potions/Stimpacks that can instantly cure the Wounds of blasterfire in seconds. Yuck.

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