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Commandos vs. Pathfinders vs. Veterans?

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Fluff-wise, what is the difference between these units? When I read the backstory on them, they sound pretty similar.

And does their abilities on the tabletop sync up with their backstory?

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Fluff-wise, it's all over the place. Rebel veterans are just the troops stationed on Hoth, in cold-weather gear. The rebel commandos are special forces soldiers, but are sometimes referred to as pathfinders. The pathfinders are referred to as rebel marines, and seems to just be regular troopers as they appear in Rouge one. 

Rules-wise, most abilities seem to match what they did in the movies. 

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It's all over the place.

What the game calls Rebel Commandos most likely resembles the rebel forces on Endor. The team on Endor consisted partially of troopers from SpecForce Pathfinders unit, as per Shattered Empire comic :P

What the game calls Rebel Pathfinders, looks like a mix between a ensemble of various rebel troopers and agents (including some of the actual Pathfinders unit, like Melshi and Pao) that formed Rogue One unit and Rebel Marines, who reinforced the  Rogue One deploying from Blue Squadron's U-wings (like Bistan).

Rebel Veterans most closely resemble rebel forces on Hoth, that consisted of various units (both from Legends and cannon).

Also, the bearded guy in Rebel Troopers kind of looks like Rex, who is still unconfirmed to serve in the Pathfinders during the mission on Endor.


The point is, i guess, that due to the irregular nature of Rebel Alliance, we must use our headcannon to determine what is what :P In fact, I choose to use any corps units in my otherwise rogue-one themed armies :)

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Posted (edited)

To draw a real-world corollary, consider the many elite special forces units in the United States military:

Navy SEALs/SEAL Team 6

Army Rangers

Army Green Berets

Delta Force

Marine Force Recon/Division Recon

That's only a partial list, of course. They undergo similar training and have similar capabilities. But each is distinct.

Edited by NokDrayen

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

Negative - the final episode of Rebels canonized this theory. Rex was a part of the ground crew at Endor in canon.

Negative, all it said was that he fought in the Battle of Endor. Anything else is headcanon.

Edited by arnoldrew

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Well Veterans I assume are rebel troopers with either military training or long experience. Anyone can pick up a blaster and fight the empire so rebel troopers are a miss match of guys/gals/non gender aliens that run around ducking and shoointg. Rebel veterans are more trained or experienced in fighting, with focus on defensive lines so hence the dodge and coordinate emplacements as well as better aiming + training slot.

Rebel commandoes are just that. Not rank and file, but special forces that focus more on completing specific missions and using sabotage. Geared for more independent fighting they have higher courage, training slot and access to more camoflage gear, hence the low profile and sharspooter.

Pathfinders are thrown in from rouge one, but they seem to have focus on fighting behind enemy lines and scouting. They got danger sense and dauntless so I assume that this represent them fighting on their own with no hope of reinforcements. They don't have the commando/saboteur role of the commandoes, but instead they got infiltrate and special guns. It feels like these units should pretty much be the same as commandoes as they are very similar. However commandoes represent the rebel troopers on endor in ROTJ and Pathfinders the soldiers or "dirty team" that fights on scariff in rouge one. I guess commandoes are special trained forces and pathfinders are just crazy guys who take on the dangerous fights that no one else wants :P

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57 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Negative, all it said was that he fought in the Battle of Endor. Anything else is headcanon.

From Filoni himself

https://www.slashfilm.com/captain-rex-in-return-of-the-jedi/

"The one thing that I have toyed with and we’ll see how I feel about this, this is probably a spoiler, Carrie Beck, but I gotta give them something.  I’ve said absolutely nothing today.  And my wife’s like yeah, it’s just like being home.  But I think the one thing I have really thought about is I really do think that Rex is that guy on Endor.  I really do.  Why else is there a bearded old guy on Endor, Tano?"

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3 minutes ago, lunitic501 said:

 

From Filoni himself

https://www.slashfilm.com/captain-rex-in-return-of-the-jedi/

"The one thing that I have toyed with and we’ll see how I feel about this, this is probably a spoiler, Carrie Beck, but I gotta give them something.  I’ve said absolutely nothing today.  And my wife’s like yeah, it’s just like being home.  But I think the one thing I have really thought about is I really do think that Rex is that guy on Endor.  I really do.  Why else is there a bearded old guy on Endor, Tano?"

Because Lucasfilm wanted to show that the rebels were so desperate for help they would take anyone, but hey changing it to be Rex would be cool too

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Posted (edited)

Hey if we're getting into head canon you presuppose that the prequels and the CW cartoon series's even happened. Which they didn't in my head canon.

For me Captain Rex is a robot pilot who takes tour groups to Endor.

Edited by TauntaunScout

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4 hours ago, NokDrayen said:

To draw a real-world corollary, consider the many elite special forces units in the United States military:

Navy SEALs/SEAL Team 6

Army Rangers

Army Green Berets

Delta Force

Marine Force Recon/Division Recon

That's only a partial list, of course. They undergo similar training and have similar capabilities. But each is distinct.

 

Kind of, but to elaborate somewhat:

Navy SEALs and US Army Special Forces (Often called green berets and including detachment Delta aka Delta Force)-

These kinds of units only really operate in small teams or, on a stretch, squads.  They very rarely deploy in platoon or larger elements and that traditionally hasn't gone well as it doesn't fully utilize their skill set.  Units in this group are generally not only trained for direct combat, but also asymmetric warfare and training indigenous elements.  They tend to represent the highest investment of both training and material resources and, thusly, very high performance is expected out of them. 

 

US Army Rangers and Marine Force Recon- 

These units are in a bit of a different category.  They are trained and equipped to conduct missions and tasks that normal infantry are not, but still retain a more normal command and force structure including assets like dedicated anti-armor units.  They can be used to augment units like Seals or Special Forces in missions where a larger presence is required or to augment normal combat elements in addition to conducting their own mission.

 

82nd and 101st Airborne-

While not specifically elite, their status of legacy units does lead to them generally having better access to equipment and/or schools.  Units from these 2 divisions are almost always fielding the top of the line standard issue kit with a few specialized pieces for their specific mission (airborne and air assault) even thought their specific mission has only seen limited use in recent conflicts.

 

US Marine Corps-

The US Marines in the ironic position of generally having a longer and more intensive training period than US Army soldiers, but also generally being worse equipped.  Due to budgetary limitations and the need to maintain specialized equipment for amphibious operation, the Marines are usually behind the Army in terms of average equipment for individual personnel (see the general lack of Javelin AT missiles in the Marine force structure, their general reliance on older model tanks, etc)

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I think commandos and pathfinders are specifically directly under alliance command so they get the important jobs, like most of what we see in the movies. Veterans and troopers could be part of the central command but could equally be part of sector forces.  

 

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The canon novel Twilight Company explains the organisation of the Rebel Alliance ground forces somewhat cohesively. The Rebel Alliance is not organized like a regular military e.g. the Empire and only partially compareable to real life military forces. As the underdog they cannot fight the Empire head-on and don't have access to a rigid and stable logistical network or a unified recruitment and training program.

The bulk of the ground forces are organized into mobile infantry units that land in Imperial territory, hit them where there are weak and get out before the Empire can answer in force. These units usally do recruitment on their own terms when and where there are able and do training on the fly. There is wide range of combat experience and training levels between the indiviudal soldiers and equipment is not unified, especially not between multiple mobile infantry units. In Legion these guys are the regular Rebel Trooper units.

The soldiers we see on Hoth in Echo Base are a special branch since there are charged with the defense of Rebel High Command and the headquarters. There are not there because they are cold weather experts but only because the Rebel Base happens to be on Hoth at that time. They are better trained and equiped than regular Troopers and also somehwhat handpicked and background checked because guarding High Command is vital to the survial of the Rebel Alliance. These are the Veterans in Legion and also the reason why they are not called Echo Base or cold weather troopers - if the base would have been on a desert planet it would have been the same guys just equipped appropriately. They do have a training slot, offensive surge and more defensive abilites to showcase these differences to regular troopers.

Commandos and Pathfinders are Special Forces and important to the Rebel Alliance since much of their strategy relies on commando operations. For these vital missions like the raid on Scarif or Endor they need soldiers that are better organized, selected and trained than your regular mobily infantry troopers. There is not really a difference between Pathfinders and Commandos as units inherently its more like that Pathfinders are from the beginnings of the Rebel movement and the Commandos we see on Endor from a more devoloped military Alliance.

   

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It's strange that the only high command we see on Hoth is Leia and the general. It's only important in terms of Vader's obsession if they're the only ones there.  

The practicalities of making a movie got in the way I guess.

 

 

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3 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

For me Captain Rex is a robot pilot who takes tour groups to Endor.

Well i think he tries to get them to Endor is more accurate. Still a great pull for a great ride. 

4 hours ago, lunitic501 said:

 

From Filoni himself

https://www.slashfilm.com/captain-rex-in-return-of-the-jedi/

"The one thing that I have toyed with and we’ll see how I feel about this, this is probably a spoiler, Carrie Beck, but I gotta give them something.  I’ve said absolutely nothing today.  And my wife’s like yeah, it’s just like being home.  But I think the one thing I have really thought about is I really do think that Rex is that guy on Endor.  I really do.  Why else is there a bearded old guy on Endor, Tano?"

And yet Filono I a later interview chose to not make that idea canon since the bearded guy, Nik Sant, was already given lore before Filono worked on Star Wars and he didn't feel that was right. So yes Rex fought on Endor but we don't see him in the film we just ol Saint Nik there to help give the good little ewok girls and boys stormtrooper helmets as toys.

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Back in the day, what Legion calls "troopers" were commandos, "fleet troopers" were troopers, "veterans" were "troopers in Hoth gear".

And no distinction of Sandtrooper or Snowtrooper were made. It was simply "stormtrooper in Hoth gear" and "stormtrooper in desert gear".

Each game makes up its own stuff.

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Wrong question, this game makes no sense fluffwise. The rules also don't have nothing to do with lore. Good luck trying to justify four men units fluffwise or rebels troops being mobile units without armour in the fluff text and then make them more stationary in game  with "defense" rule. 

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They way I think of it, somewhat based on the official FFG blurb for each expansion is:

Rebel Commandos, Regular soldiers given more advanced training, especially in covert operations, recon, etc. Operating in small teams and behind enemy lines, unlike the other two, only their training and equipment separates them from the rest, not the individuals. They are simply soldiers given specialist training and equipment, somewhat akin to modern day special forces.

Rebel Veterans, Somewhat like the name suggests, are soldiers who have been in the fight for a while, they are experienced, grizzled and willing to fight to the bitter end. This is reflected in their use in critical deployments, like defending the Echo base and somewhat with their rules, being more experienced at coordinating, emplacement weapons, more accurate with the surge and the free dodge making them harder to take down. They're the jaded soldiers who are trusted with the more crucial missions and defensive posts of the Rebellion and are tough and experienced enough to withstand the harshest environments the galaxy can throw at them.

Rebel Pathfinders, are somewhat more unorthodox, Being essentially Rebel zealots. In Rouge One, they are the troopers who disobeyed orders just to take the fight to the empire, they willingly deploy on a suicide mission, fueled by their dedication to the cause. They are made up of a wide variety of individuals from all sorts of backgrounds, carrying a diverse set of equipment and skills. As Cassian says in R1: "Some of us... ... most of us, we’ve done terrible things on behalf of the Rebellion.", They are individuals from all over the galaxy that would do anything to see the Empire fall. They've lost everything  and the rebellion is all they have left, shown by their increased resilience to suppression they represent the troopers who are giving everything they've got, they're the ones who will willingly take on a mission knowing there is no coming back.

Anyways, that's how I see them.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah so as noted, technically the "Commandos" model a unit which are called Pathfinders, and the "Pathfinders" model a unit which is referred to as commandos, but I guess nobody at LFL was paying attention when they had to approve the branding.

In real life military terms, Commandos are light infantry trained in special operations, usually raids and stealth stuff - but it's also a generic term for "special forces" in general (regardless of role). Rebel Commandos are light infantry (like most Rebel Soldiers), who are a "core" special forces unit, able to form small strike teams for rapid deployments or move in more normal formations, assisted by weapon specialists like snipers and saboteurs. Training upgrades for more elite skills, and their Low Profile and Scouting abilities means they are suited to act as a force to move ahead of your main force and accomplish objectives, or just get into position where they can do their "special forces" thing.  In fact, with the exception of Scout Troopers (though you could paint them black and call them Storm Commandos, dunno if FFG will ever get to that one), most of the "basic" SpecForce slot units are labelled Commandos. 

Pathfinders are special forces soldiers who act as a forward or recon element for a main force, inserted ahead in order to scout and secure landing or drop zones, or supply points. Usually paired with air-mobile units. In the game, Rebel Pathfinders with their Infiltrate ability can be deployed ahead of your main force, either to "scout" by screening the enemy, or to secure or prep objectives ahead of your main force, with the training and specialized weapons which their special forces status would indicate.

Veterans are just as noted - they visually model Echo Base Troopers, but are stand-ins for any rebel unit which has served for an extended period and thus may have gained better equipment, training and shows real dedication for the cause. They are still fundamentally normal infantrymen, women and aliens though. 

Edited by UnitOmega

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Posted (edited)

Commandos in legion are more stealth units that fight best from the shadows

pathfinders are a bit more up front and are described as being first in, last out units. They hold the line while the Corp units make their way in, setting up in advance positions, they are meant to have a high attrition rate. paratroopers /  Rangers/ Advanced Recon units. There is crossover with commando s but rather than being sneaky, these guys will often end up being visible to the enemy. 

Rebel troopers are the rank and file troopers akin to irregular units/militia, with less formal training.

Fleet Troopers and Veterans are the more experienced troopers with more formal military training, aka the regular units with fleet troopers being more like the navy marine where they are designed for on ship combat and more enclosed conditions, with the veterans being the equivalent of an actual standard rank and file army soldier.

Edited by syrath

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