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Nytwyng

Rey’s father was...what? (Rise of Skywalker novelization spoilers)

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16 hours ago, Vek Baustrade said:

Don't you get tired of banging this drum relentlessly, @Daeglan? You've had this exact same conversation on these boards at least a half dozen times. We get it. Bad writing. Rey is a Mary Sue. Move on.

Nah, he's giving his perspective on something that's largely subjective and being respectful about it. Some agree. Some disagree. Expecting only agreement on such things is the way of the truly toxic grognards that have gained the spotlight, declaring themselves arbiters of what is and isn't "real" Star Wars and who is and isn't a "real" Star Wars fan.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Citation needed 

these ARE her exact words

Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels. We don’t have anything other than passionate storytellers who get together and talk about what the next iteration might be.”

It's a rolling stones interview

Edited by MB -Fr-

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Posted (edited)

the carbon copy part then?

there's no citation because I'm not suggesting JJ copied the plot from the comics, I was only pointing that the comics and the movie use exactly the same things: cloning, transfer of personality, palpatine able to use the force to annihilate fleets and more superweapons

which is suspicious, but I can chalk it up to concurrent design or unconscious memories. if I gave the impression I suggested that he just ripped off the story, my bad, bad choice of words

my point was that all the people saying that disney ruined star wars by using these was a little hollow given that these have been used in legends waaaaay before disney decided to use them

Edited by MB -Fr-

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36 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

the carbon copy part then?

there's no citation because I'm not suggesting JJ copied the plot from the comics, I was only pointing that the comics and the movie use exactly the same things: cloning, transfer of personality, palpatine able to use the force to annihilate fleets and more superweapons

which is suspicious, but I can chalk it up to concurrent design or unconscious memories. if I gave the impression I suggested that he just ripped off the story, my bad, bad choice of words

my point was that all the people saying that disney ruined star wars by using these was a little hollow given that these have been used in legends waaaaay before disney decided to use them

Concurrent design with materials made 20 years earlier for the same property? Not buying it.

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On 3/6/2020 at 12:14 AM, micheldebruyn said:

Repeating it doesn't make it true.

If it were a set of priorities that leads to bad writing then how come The Mandalorian is good? Because it obviously has that same set of priorities, only far more so, because there's a lot of diversity behind the cameras there too.

But if you look at the earlier non-"SJW" writing of JJ Abrams and TFA and TROS, you'll see a lot of very similar failings of penmanship.

Strength in the Force tends to be overwhelmingly not inherited. Pretty much only Luke Skywalker inherited his Force stuff in the first 6 films (Leia never showed she had any). Kenobi, Palpatine, Windu, Dooku... no Force dynasties there. Ki-Adi-Mundi had a bunch of kids in Legends, but they weren't Force-sensitive.

And Luke had pretty much zero training compared to even a Youngling who hadn't made it to Padawan yet. Luke completely 'intuited' Move, without even knowing that was a thing you can do with the force. Rey at least knew all about that from hearing about the legend of Luke Skywalker (although she clearly was more a Han Solo fan growing up).

Someone's making up excuses I see.

Luke had a short bout of training in ANH then another short bout in ESB followed by some extended training in ROTJ that required he face Vader again.

Instead of killing him he managed to turn him back to the light a feat neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda thought possible.

Rey until TROS had a barely short bout of training with insane array of force skills that could only be the result of her being raised on Jakku by a Jedi survivor similar in skill to Ahsoka.

Instead they let an idiot crap all over the franchise before JJ apparently tried to finish the trilogy with an entirely new trilogy shoved into a single movie.

 

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47 minutes ago, copperbell said:

Someone's making up excuses I see.

Luke had a short bout of training in ANH then another short bout in ESB followed by some extended training in ROTJ that required he face Vader again.

Instead of killing him he managed to turn him back to the light a feat neither Obi-Wan nor Yoda thought possible.

Rey until TROS had a barely short bout of training with insane array of force skills that could only be the result of her being raised on Jakku by a Jedi survivor similar in skill to Ahsoka.

Instead they let an idiot crap all over the franchise before JJ apparently tried to finish the trilogy with an entirely new trilogy shoved into a single movie.

 

Both Luke and Rey received their respective brief training from teachers who had agendas other than providing "real" Jedi training.

Obi-Wan and Yoda were forging Luke into a blunt weapon to be turned on Vader and the Emperor. They lied to him to make him hate Vader and want to kill him, outright telling him that the ultimate goal was to eliminate both Vader and the Emperor. His redemption of Vader was in direct opposition to the training he received (and only occurred as he realized he was becoming the very thing he was fighting against). Had he followed the teaching he received, he likely wouldn't have hesitated to finish the job of hammering away against Vader. (Having just rewatched RotJ last night, I still don't recall Luke receiving any training in that one, unless we're counting Yoda and Obi-Wan being confronted with their lies and barely fessing up to them as they rationalize it.)

Meanwhile, in the wake of that (and having begun to believe his own proverbial press), Luke's lessons to Rey weren't meant to lead her to being a Jedi, but rather to show her the folly of the Jedi and his belief that they weren't necessary to the continued fate of the galaxy.

And, as the movies demonstrated, those lessons were absolutely wrongheaded. Both Luke and Rey grew beyond their mentors, as Yoda said, and that's what led to their ultimate victories.

Now, I'm not quite sure why an innate connection to the force requires "being raised...by a Jedi survivor similar in skill to Ahsoka."

And, when it comes to "making up excuses," it doesn't get much more textbook than ascribing insult and malice to someone who simply made a film that you didn't enjoy.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

This is not the word used to link two events that happen 30 years apart.

It is, however, a word used to link connected statements in a discussion.

Meanwhile*, thanks for the scintillating contribution.

(*yep...intentional. 😉)

Edited by Nytwyng

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