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Im am still wondering about Surprise Attack and the SSD. 

Do i get it right, that the SSD is still bound to deploy in the setup zone? 

In this case you can still force him into this position. Just because this is the only legal place, and because of this, he is forced to deploy it there. Or did i miss something?

y4mWtpPLDxrqaFh61WAq8pvofo4T0u8MyVxaRPMk

 

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2 minutes ago, xero989 said:

Did this answer the question of if the SSD can overlap other obstacles in surprise attack? Im not sure it did.

No, it still cannot overlap obstacles. But it does not have to touch the players edge anymore when he cannot. This allowed him at least to deploy (before the FAQ the SSD could not deploy at all). But as i mentioned above, it might be not the best place 😁

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8 minutes ago, Karneck said:

Really? It wasn't neatly spelled out like it is now, but thats been known for well over a year or so now, it was something already in the FAQ, just in a section most people skip over.

Dunno! Didn't get enough play time with or against him maybe!

But I was right with Commander Beck! :)

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1 minute ago, Tokra said:

No, it still cannot overlap obstacles. But it does not have to touch the players edge anymore when he cannot. This allowed him at least to deploy (before the FAQ the SSD could not deploy at all). But as i mentioned above, it might be not the best place 😁

Yeah i feel like the rocks could be closer together preventing deployment all together, but maybe I am wrong.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, xero989 said:

Yeah i feel like the rocks could be closer together preventing deployment all together, but maybe I am wrong.

Not anymore. You have only 3 obstacles that you can place. These are not enough to block the whole area around the station. If he has to deploy in the setup area, you can force him to place him below the station, near your own deployment zone. But you cannot block him anymore. 
Somehow this way:
y4mZLlXiqLIOSiwXtCq_XkTNYkNKldOdXYJ-XWWf

 

Forget what i wrote. You can still block him with the 3 Obstacles. Unless the SSD is allowed to deploy outside of the Setup Zone, or allowed to overlap the obstacles, it is still an auto loss, when the SSD is the flagship. 

Edited by Tokra
i was wrong :)

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11 minutes ago, Tokra said:

Not anymore. You have only 3 obstacles that you can place. These are not enough to block the whole area around the station. If he has to deploy in the setup area, you can force him to place him below the station, near your own deployment zone. But you cannot block him anymore. 
Somehow this way:
y4mZLlXiqLIOSiwXtCq_XkTNYkNKldOdXYJ-XWWf

 

Forget what i wrote. You can still block him with the 3 Obstacles. Unless the SSD is allowed to deploy outside of the Setup Zone, or allowed to overlap the obstacles, it is still an auto loss, when the SSD is the flagship. 

Weird stuff ill have to play around on vassal when I can to get all the spatial stuff down.

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I have actually been thinking about the timing of ET (and maybe other cards?) because of the FAQ.

The rules say: Effects with a command icon as a header, such as  “(nav)” can be resolved once while the ship is resolving the matching command.

The FAQ makes clear that you cannot use the command itself during the ET maneuver, but inherently its seems that the allowed timing window for ET (while resolving the command) collides with the window of ET's effect, after the first maneuver.

Am I overthinking this?

 

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Posted (edited)

Yes you're overthinking

People (wrongly) believed you could use the command dial on the ET navigation when that is wrong because you can only exhaust engine tech at the end of the determine course step of your first maneuver. before you then start the second determine course step for engine tech. Which is its own window / maneuver

Edited by Karneck

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, xero989 said:

Weird stuff ill have to play around on vassal when I can to get all the spatial stuff down.

 

1 hour ago, Tokra said:

Not anymore. You have only 3 obstacles that you can place. These are not enough to block the whole area around the station. If he has to deploy in the setup area, you can force him to place him below the station, near your own deployment zone. But you cannot block him anymore. 
Somehow this way:
y4mZLlXiqLIOSiwXtCq_XkTNYkNKldOdXYJ-XWWf

 

Forget what i wrote. You can still block him with the 3 Obstacles. Unless the SSD is allowed to deploy outside of the Setup Zone, or allowed to overlap the obstacles, it is still an auto loss, when the SSD is the flagship. 

In that example the SSD is still entirely within the setup area though, correct?

Edited by Bertie Wooster
Sorry xero, didn't mean to quote you

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4 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Did they really not clarify Heavy Fire Zone? The most misunderstood, hotly debated card. They didn’t cover that one. Or did I miss it?

Nope, they didn't cover it at all. Even though they've gotten emails about it since it was just a pixelated image to us. 

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Just now, Bertie Wooster said:

Can someone give me an example of how Beck works now? I can't understand what the FAQ is saying. 

I reveal a Concentrate Fire dial on my ISD. I use Beck to resolve Repair as if I spent a token, so I get 2 engineering points and bring a shield back up. I take a repair raid token. Then I attack, and I use Beck + my ConFire dial to add a die and reroll a die. I take a ConFire raid token.

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3 hours ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Can someone give me an example of how Beck works now? I can't understand what the FAQ is saying. 

Beck now provides a phantom command token you spend for a command and gives you the opportunity to also spend a real dial to boost it further if you want. It's nearly a complete rewrite of what the card actually says to do, but it at least answers the question of "can I use Piett with this?" (yes) and "what happens when you use Krennic with this?" (you get the token-sized version of con fire). It's a mess though, with some weird Pursuant-sized extra questions tacked on.

3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Did they really not clarify Heavy Fire Zone? The most misunderstood, hotly debated card. They didn’t cover that one. Or did I miss it?

They didn't cover cards from wave 8 besides clarifying how extreme range evades work.

4 hours ago, RapidReload said:

I have actually been thinking about the timing of ET (and maybe other cards?) because of the FAQ.

The rules say: Effects with a command icon as a header, such as  “(nav)” can be resolved once while the ship is resolving the matching command.

The FAQ makes clear that you cannot use the command itself during the ET maneuver, but inherently its seems that the allowed timing window for ET (while resolving the command) collides with the window of ET's effect, after the first maneuver.

Am I overthinking this?

engine-techs.png

Engine Techs triggers after you execute a maneuver using a navigate command. By the time Engine Techs kicks in, there is no nav dial remaining to use. It's always been this way but it causes confusion so it's a clarification, not a change. Similar to when they spelled out that Admonition can't be used more than once per attack: it was always that way, but people didn't always catch it.

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Wow, that’s a really weird way to rule Beck. Why didn’t they just allow her to grant you a token? Then you could just spend it alongside a dial if you chose to. Sounds like the ruling they’re using here flies in the face of they way these effects traditionally have worked.

I also just still cannot believe they HFZ thing. How the **** did they ignore that? I’m absolutely amazed.

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19 minutes ago, Formynder4 said:

He's pretty clearly understood, so nothing to edit there. 

So they want him to work the way he currently does. Seems fair.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I also just still cannot believe they HFZ thing. How the **** did they ignore that? I’m absolutely amazed.

Its been long standing tradition that they don't even answer Email questions on new releases for at least 90 days after Release.  FAQs are a minimum of 6 months on that...  

We're still in that time.

Trust me, I don't *like* it, but it has literally been how it always has been, and I have been told flatly so, so its not just conjecture.

The fact that they *DID* answer Beck is astonishing.

Edited by Drasnighta

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Karneck said:

Yes you're overthinking

People (wrongly) believed you could use the command dial on the ET navigation when that is wrong because you can only exhaust engine tech at the end of the determine course step of your first maneuver. before you then start the second determine course step for engine tech. Which is its own window / maneuver

 

2 hours ago, Snipafist said:

Beck now provides a phantom command token you spend for a command and gives you the opportunity to also spend a real dial to boost it further if you want. It's nearly a complete rewrite of what the card actually says to do, but it at least answers the question of "can I use Piett with this?" (yes) and "what happens when you use Krennic with this?" (you get the token-sized version of con fire). It's a mess though, with some weird Pursuant-sized extra questions tacked on.

They didn't cover cards from wave 8 besides clarifying how extreme range evades work.

engine-techs.png

Engine Techs triggers after you execute a maneuver using a navigate command. By the time Engine Techs kicks in, there is no nav dial remaining to use. It's always been this way but it causes confusion so it's a clarification, not a change. Similar to when they spelled out that Admonition can't be used more than once per attack: it was always that way, but people didn't always catch it.

Thank you guys for the answer. I clearly understand what the FAQ states, I was just confused by the wording of the rule when these "command-triggered upgrades" resolve: "once while a ship is executing the matching command".

If I understood you correctly this is interpreted to mean that resolving the command allows you to then resolve the effect of the card even after the command has already been resolved? As far as I have seen only ET and Quantum Storm "violate" the timing of the rules in this way.

Or is the navigate command considered active during the entire Determine Course step and thus "while" extends even after the first navigated maneuver was concluded?

Edited by RapidReload

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Well, i found it. Ships have to be deployed in the setup zone.

RRG:


6 . Deploy Ships: Starting with the first player, the players take turns deploying their forces into the setup area. A single deployment turn consists of placing one ship or two squadrons.
...
◊ Ships and squadrons can be placed on top of the setup area markers as long as they remain entirely within the setup area.

Surprise attack does not bypass this rule. Only the "has to deploy in the deployment zone" or in this case of the SSD, the "has to touch the players edge". This means, Surprise Attack and SSD Flagship are still not working (SSD cannot be deployed).
And even if you are not able to place the obstacles perfect for the block (might be harder on the table as it is in Vassal), you can force the SSD in a position where it does not matter at all. I did not test it all out. But basically the SSD has to be deployed nearly looking to the 3'' edge. he might even fly off the board this way.

 

Good hint: do not pick suprise attack as first player when your flagship is the SSD 😉.

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29 minutes ago, Tokra said:

Good hint: do not pick suprise attack as first player when your flagship is the SSD 😉.

You're still assuming that the 1st player is placing his two drops of Obstacles in places that don't matter.

Whereas, if they cannily use it to spoil the "perfect position" drop the 2nd player requires, you can get an SSD in position.

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