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Amc879

FO "Aces"

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Not super acey, but Kylo, Vonreg, Scorch, Null is a list I have considered flying. I have been trying to make the BA and silencer fit in a list but Holo and Kylo don't work together well in my experience. Anyone else having similar experiences?

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Depends on what you are trying to accomplish with "Aces". In my experience, "Aces" want to be doing one or both of these things:

1 - Killing things before they shoot;

2 - Arc-dodging and flanking;

Tie/BA specialize on number 2, but are not efficient jousters. On the other hand, pilots like Null, Midnight and Quickdraw are geared to joust, so they should be your go-to when trying to accomplish no. 1, but they don't have the repositioning tools to do no. 2. Silencers are great at both, but pay the price of that versatility in heavy points cost.

What am i getting at? Ace lists can have different focus, depending on which aspect of the aces you want to lean into. If we're looking at just the quality of FO options, I think you'll end up doing something with a couple of jousters (Quickdraw, LeHuse + Rivas, Scorch) and some jousters (Vonreg, Holo, Kylo, Blackout, FO Test Pilot). Rush can also be included somewhere in there: even though he starts as a jouster with good block capability, he can turn into a good flanker if he lives.

Here are some lists built with that in mind:

Major Vonreg (57)    
    Daredevil (2)    
    
Ship total: 59  Half Points: 30  Threshold: 2    
    
"Holo" (54)    
    Daredevil (2)    
    
Ship total: 56  Half Points: 28  Threshold: 2    
    
Lieutenant LeHuse (39)    
    Special Forces Gunner (10)    
    
Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 3    
    
Lieutenant Rivas (27)    
Ship total: 27  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 191    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZsZ200Z381X117WWWY382X117WWWY397XWWW182WWY265XW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

 

Kylo Ren (76)    
    Advanced Optics (4)    
    
Ship total: 80  Half Points: 40  Threshold: 3    
    
Lieutenant LeHuse (39)    
    Special Forces Gunner (10)    
    
Ship total: 49  Half Points: 25  Threshold: 3    
    
"Scorch" (33)    
Ship total: 33  Half Points: 17  Threshold: 2    
    
Lieutenant Rivas (27)    
Ship total: 27  Half Points: 14  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 189    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZsZ200Z236XW186WWY397XWWW182WWY262XWWY265XW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

 

"Rush" (57)    
Ship total: 57  Half Points: 29  Threshold: 3    
    
Kylo Ren (76)    
Ship total: 76  Half Points: 38  Threshold: 3    
    
Major Vonreg (57)    
    Daredevil (2)    
    
Ship total: 59  Half Points: 30  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 192    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZsZ200Z386XWWY236XWWWY381X117WWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

 

Major Vonreg (57)    
    Daredevil (2)    
    
Ship total: 59  Half Points: 30  Threshold: 2    
    
"Holo" (54)    
Ship total: 54  Half Points: 27  Threshold: 2    
    
"Quickdraw" (45)    
    Concussion Missiles (6)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    
Ship total: 53  Half Points: 27  Threshold: 3    
    
"Scorch" (33)    
Ship total: 33  Half Points: 17  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 199    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZsZ200Z381X117WWWY382XWWWY243XWW99WW113WY262XWW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

 

Unfortunately, all i'm saying is built on supposition, since i'm in Europe, and amonly expecting to pick up Tie/BAs by the beggining of April

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15 hours ago, Amc879 said:

Holo and Kylo don't work together well in my experience.

Why is this do you think? I'm experimenting with these two, combined with two FOs. So far i's been working fine I think.

Not trying to devalue your experience. Just curious how you arrived at it.

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3 hours ago, Yearfire said:

Why is this do you think? I'm experimenting with these two, combined with two FOs. So far i's been working fine I think.

Not trying to devalue your experience. Just curious how you arrived at it.

  So far i have trouble keeping the FOs close enough to to Holo after the 1st engage. Holo wants to run and boost around and the FO get left in the scrum. This leaves Kylo around as where holo must pass tokens which is never quite what I want. 

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On ‎2‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 7:15 PM, Amc879 said:

Not super acey, but Kylo, Vonreg, Scorch, Null is a list I have considered flying. I have been trying to make the BA and silencer fit in a list but Holo and Kylo don't work together well in my experience. Anyone else having similar experiences?

Holo and Kylo work fine together in my experience. I've flown a Holo, Kylo, Vonreg list a few times and I've found it's rare to be in a position where Holo's ability is a pure negative. Often one of the other ships is in a good position to hand off a Strain because they aren't getting shot at or Holo himself is not in trouble and you can hand off a Focus or Evade to help out another ship that hasn't managed to arc dodge. It requires slightly different flying than a lot of trip aces lists because you need to fly your ships a bit closer together but it can be quite effective. I've managed to use Holo's ability to let Kylo tank ridiculous firepower by handing him an Evade on top of his Focus and Force. At other times it allows you to make sure you're getting fully modified shots where you need them by handing off Holo's Focus to a ship with a lock.

Admittedly Holo will usually die first because there will often come a point where I have to sacrifice a token I'd rather keep for the good of the whole squad. In that case it's usually not too big a problem because he's the cheapest ship in the list anyway.

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8 hours ago, Jike said:

 

Admittedly Holo will usually die first because there will often come a point where I have to sacrifice a token I'd rather keep for the good of the whole squad. In that case it's usually not too big a problem because he's the cheapest ship in the list anyway.

This is the problem I often have is either holo dies first of dooms someone else. Only scorch and Null are cheaper in my list. I need more testing with vonreg vs holo, but initial signs point toward the major since he can be more independent of the team. I like flanking one way with hi,. the other with kylo and rushing in the two TIES. So far people try to chase one of the ships with boost and that doesn't seem to work well for them

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Just remember that the BA's are not arc dodgers in anyway. Without focus + boost link options they are very easy to destroy if someone turns into one. Holo can work as a support type ship for Kylo if you want to pursue something like that, If you want pure aces I would stick with Silencers as the Barons just have a different role.

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I’ve been running this of late:

FO Hyperspace

(54) "Holo" [TIE/ba Interceptor]
(2) Proud Tradition
Points: 56

(76) Kylo Ren [TIE/vn Silencer]
(4) Advanced Optics
(6) Adv. Proton Torpedoes
Points: 86

(30) "Muse" [TIE/fo Fighter]
(2) Proud Tradition
Points: 32

(25) Epsilon Squadron Cadet [TIE/fo Fighter]
Points: 25

Total points: 199

You can neutralise the downside of Holo’s ability by locking him with everyone on the first turn. The APTs are droppable but work well in my local meta. A bigger bid would be an equally valid choice. Kylo with APT, Optics, two force, a lock and a focus is a terrifying prospect though, and if you set up the lock early you can give him an evade too and allow him to basically joust Fenn Rau without a care in the world.

Holo is fragile but the 5k into a focus catches people out, particularly when you’re able to pass the stress to stop them flipping Proud Tradition. And even if you do have to allow your opponent to flip it, Holo’s focuses being red doesn’t really matter. Muse with Proud Tradition is excellent too for 32 points, both for being able to sloop whenever he wants and for being able to clear stress from your other ships (especially Kylo) to keep them mobile. The Epsilon is a fantastic blocker and makes a good repository for Holo’s less desirable tokens.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/2/2020 at 6:16 PM, RelativeShoe said:

You can neutralise the downside of Holo’s ability by locking him with everyone on the first turn. The APTs are droppable but work well in my local meta. A bigger bid would be an equally valid choice.

   This! Those 2 tie/fos you have typically prefer the focus action over TL in most cases. Target locking Holo turn 1 means that's 2 rounds Holo can just pass a friendly TL to Kylo if you really don't want to pass off a different token.

   Another thing that helps Holo fly with Kylo is keeping in mind that Holo can switch back and forth between attacker and support. On those rounds where Holo can be more of a detriment fly him away from the fight instead so hes not getting shot at or your opponent is taking bad shots if they do and pass a focus/evade token off to Kylo instead. And then just take the deplete token with Holo since this isnt his combat heavy turn anyways.  

   Also remember that most aces live by the mindset that it's better to arc dodge and not get a shot then it is to trade shots. This stays true for deplete/strain tokens. If you're forced to joust take that deplete and lose a red die if your opponent has a great modded shot on you. Getting 1 less damage in is still better then losing your limited hp pool.

Edited by Jaysnipesinc

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I tried out PR Holo again and he was a lot better than I remember. I tried to not joust and either pass the strain to kylo if he wasn't getting shot or pass the focus/evade if he was and Holo wasn't. Overall actually a solid team. I just needed more holo time

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Andyf1702 said:

Do you think in Hyperspace that Holo is better than Major Vonreg?

I would of thought that an I6 would be better in the matchups with Boba

Personally yes, I love Holo. Holo likes to be on a team of 4+ ships however whereas Vonreg needs to play like an actual ace. I still think FO is missing something to let them play a pure ace list so for me Holo on a full team gets more work done. Boba Fenn is a difficult matchup. Try to play around asteroids and clog the lanes to force those bumps. Boba gets defensive rerolls but green dice are still finicky and he only gets 2 of them, he can burned through. 

3 hours ago, Amc879 said:

I tried out PR Holo again and he was a lot better than I remember. I tried to not joust and either pass the strain to kylo if he wasn't getting shot or pass the focus/evade if he was and Holo wasn't. Overall actually a solid team. I just needed more holo time

Absolutely, I'm prolly getting close to 50 games and I still feel like theres always a better way I could've played each game using Holo's tricks.

Edited by Jaysnipesinc

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4 hours ago, Andyf1702 said:

Do you think in Hyperspace that Holo is better than Major Vonreg?

I would of thought that an I6 would be better in the matchups with Boba

I think it depends on the lists.

Holo, as @Jaysnipesinc points out, requires a list with at least 4 ships, and he's got a really interesting role as someone good for support and ace play.

Vonreg has value, to be sure, but fits into a rather different kind of list.  If you don't have enough ships, or the right ships to benefit from (or not be inconvenienced by) the tokens Holo would pass around, Vonreg is one of the few Init 6 arc dodgers in Hyperspace.

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I played the following recently and it requires a bit more practice I think, but was fun and solid:

- Vonreg (Daredevil)
- Holo (Proud Tradition)
- LeHuse (Fanatical, Special Forces Gunner)
- Rivas (Advanced Optics)
197 points

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I liked the list. Tried to move some upgrade and ran this at an hyperspace event : 
"Muse" (30)    
    Proud Tradition (2)    
    
Ship total: 32  Half Points: 16  Threshold: 2    
    
"Null" (30)    
Ship total: 30  Half Points: 15  Threshold: 2    
    
"Holo" (54)    
    Proud Tradition (2)    
    
Ship total: 56  Half Points: 28  Threshold: 2    
    
Kylo Ren (76)    
    Advanced Optics (4)    
    
Ship total: 80  Half Points: 40  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 198    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZhZ200Z235X319WWY290XWY382X319WWWY236XW186WW&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

You've got a bit of everything. 1 super cool blocker with muse, 2 high I aces that punch hard, and one 1I FO that keep ships with low life honest (like, that oddball in a ywing with 2 hull left might just not get to shoot if he stays there and take a target lock. Wanna risk it? )

Lost one game super hard to dice variance (3 green die will do that to you) and one game with a close defeat (should have ran away with holo at the last round, but was cheeky and tried to get more point. It wasn't worth it)
But after I got some more practice with it, the next 2 game were great. 200 points each time, against 5 xwing and 2jedi+oddball+ric. 
This bid is a bit thigh but if you can plan your block with muse correctly the whole list just hit so hard. And you can do dumb stuff to block like a 4 kturn through a debris field or a 3 bank over debris, still take focus, removes one stress, etc. Debris are definitely the best obstacles here when you have PT.

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Not sure if this belongs in the trip Silencers thread but here we go anyways.

 

I've been trying to put together a 3-4 ship list with Kylo, Blackout and something. 

What are some good option to go with these two?

Kylo doesn't need anything but I like AO and fanatical on Blackout if possible.

 

Here's some of my thoughts to pair with them:

 

2 FO's - ESC and Rivas (I've flown a good amount of double Jedi/double torrent so this one feels very similar)

 

3rd silencer - take some upgrades off of blackout and you can fit Rush

Or SJE with optics. (I know this one just placed high in a space jam tournament/ I probably should try this.)

 

1 SF - not quite enough points to fit quickdraw in with the things she(?) Needs. LeHuse and backdraft cost the same but you may not need the gunner on backdraft.

 

1 FO - midnight. I know it's not the juke/com relay lockdown of old. But with imp Aces and boba+ still present and doing well, she could be a decent pocket pick for them. There's the pattern analyzer and proud tradition combo. Or maybe just predator and AO to help give more punch, when you have a focus. Or even fanatical and hull upgrade could work?

 

1 BA - I'm not the biggest fan of these.  I think only Holo would fit an also as mentioned above, I don't think he's best suited for lower ship count lists.

 

What could fit best along side Kylo and Blackout? Is there any combo I may have missed?

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I like the idea of having two i1 blockers to potentially soak up some damage for Blackout and Kylo, so I’d go;

Kylo - (Foresight)

Blackout - (Fanatical, AO)

x2 Epsilon Squadron Cadet
 

Foresight is decent for chipping damage, although you need to be careful when using it as Kylo only has the two force charges. I’d be inclined to fly the ESCs with Kylo and Blackout on his own. You could always ditch foresight and throw Null in for a juicier target and i7 but I’m not sure if that’d be worth it.

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