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Ronu

Homing Missiles Captain Phasma interaction

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So curious if the thoughts here. Phasma states after Naturalize results step a friendly ship at range 0-1 must take a damage to cancel a matching result.

Homing Missiles states as part of the effect is to skip the attack and defense dice step if the opponent elects to take just the one damage. 
 

would Phasma just shoulder the damage to another target or would she still take the 1 damage if she chose that option against homing missiles? 

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Phasma would take the damage. Her ability doesn't work on  the voluntary damage from homing missiles for a number of reasons. For one, that damage is suffered before rolling dice (so at the end of step 1 of attacking). Phasma's ability specifies a timing of "after the neutralize results step" which is between steps 4 and 5. For another, Phasma's ability cancels a dice result; if you suffer the damage from homing missiles, there are no dice results for her to cancel.

I hope this answers your question!

~~~

Forgive me, but now I'm going to be annoying and pose a related question for the rules forum at large:

Say the person attacking Phasma with homing missiles is Fifth Brother (TIE/v1). Phasma takes the damage, and Fifth Brother uses his ability to add a crit result. Does Phasma pawn this damage off, or does she suffer it herself? This question is more complicated than it seems at first blush because of weird ability queue interactions; my initial answer was "Phasma takes the damage if she is first player and passes it if she is second player" but I'm not actually sure this is correct.

If Phasma is second player in this scenario, can she even queue her ability if no results exist for her to cancel?

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9 minutes ago, Maui. said:

my initial answer was "Phasma takes the damage if she is first player and passes it if she is second player" but I'm not actually sure this is correct.

This would be my assessment. So i believe you are correct. 

 

11 minutes ago, Maui. said:

If Phasma is second player in this scenario, can she even queue her ability if no results exist for her to cancel?

Her ability doesn't have a requirement to queue, so yes, she can still queue it. 

 

Quote

Q: What is meant by a "requirement" for an ability?

A: A requirement for an ability is a conditional if-statement, such as "if you are tractored" or "if the defender is in your bullseye arc."

 

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9 minutes ago, Maui. said:

Forgive me, but now I'm going to be annoying and pose a related question for the rules forum at large:

Say the person attacking Phasma with homing missiles is Fifth Brother (TIE/v1). Phasma takes the damage, and Fifth Brother uses his ability to add a crit result. Does Phasma pawn this damage off, or does she suffer it herself? This question is more complicated than it seems at first blush because of weird ability queue interactions; my initial answer was "Phasma takes the damage if she is first player and passes it if she is second player" but I'm not actually sure this is correct.

If Phasma is second player in this scenario, can she even queue her ability if no results exist for her to cancel?

Hrm.  This is an irksome question.

Without more input from FFG, I think it's right to go by player order.  I wouldn't have a Second Player Phasma issue, since there isn't a requirement, near as I can tell.  There's no "if there are remaining Hit/Crit results" or such language in Phasma's ability.

However, the irksomeness comes in with the fact that a lot of steps in attacking and defending have precise orders on who uses what abilities when.  Defender modifies Attacker's dice first, Attacker modifies Defenders's dice first, Defender does Aftermath abilities of either non-bonus-attack or bonus attack substeps before the Attacker.

This, however, breaks down in the "add/cancel" results at times other than when modifying results.  Stuff like Biggs and Treacherous and Crack Shot and Grievous crew.  Those kind of seem as lawless as the outer rim.  I'm going to assume that it reverts to First/Second player, but it's never not going to be irksome to me.

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Agreed. I can't find a fault in my original thought process (also @Lyianx's thought process) but that just feels unsatisfactory--like that's how the process works, but it's not how the process should work. It made me think there was something I might have overlooked, hence the question

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agreed. i don't like it, but it seems like that's how it works.

1. weapon is chosen (homing missiles), defender is declared (captain phasma).
2. the phasma player opts to take one damage to suffer one damage and skip the attack and defense dice steps.
3. the attack is treated as hitting and we are now after neutralize results. there is an ability that needs to be resolved (phasma's) and an ability that may be resolved (fifth brother's). the ability queue must be used and the order the abilities are added to the queue and resolved from it will be determined by player order, since both abilities have the same timing.

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57 minutes ago, meffo said:

agreed. i don't like it, but it seems like that's how it works.

1. weapon is chosen (homing missiles), defender is declared (captain phasma).
2. the phasma player opts to take one damage to suffer one damage and skip the attack and defense dice steps.
3. the attack is treated as hitting and we are now after neutralize results. there is an ability that needs to be resolved (phasma's) and an ability that may be resolved (fifth brother's). the ability queue must be used and the order the abilities are added to the queue and resolved from it will be determined by player order, since both abilities have the same timing.

And it’s at 3 where I have my original question. Before 5th brother ever happens there is a hit outstanding which would trigger effects. Which is why I am curious about this. 
 

Also if Phasma can in fact push the damage away, then she is no longer hit. Which would negate 5th brother entirely, 

Edited by Ronu

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16 minutes ago, Ronu said:

And it’s at 3 where I have my original question. Before 5th brother ever happens there is a hit outstanding which would trigger effects. Which is why I am curious about this. 
 

Also if Phasma can in fact push the damage away, then she is no longer hit. Which would negate 5th brother entirely, 

The damage suffered (it is not a hit result, the damage is applied immediately to the defender) by the defender if they choose to not risk the 4 die attack happens after the attack is declared and before any dice would be rolled. Phasma happens after the Neutralize Results step, which isn't skipped despite there not being any results to neutralize, so she does not have the opportunity to have a squad mate eat the damage from the effect for her.

latest?cb=20180914172615 

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35 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

I'm a little confused on why people are not liking it or think it feels "wrong". It seems fairly straightforward to me.

My issue is that most things in the attack sequence happen in a specific order, regardless of who first player is.  I think this is good.

However, there are a few abilities where the timings aren't super clear (Treacherous seems like a major offender), and things kinda get lawless.  The disorder irks me.  Everything else in the attack sequence is laid out nicely.  Having to switch to player order in a part of the game which is otherwise independent of player order feels really wrong to me.

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On 2/28/2020 at 4:09 PM, Ronu said:

Also if Phasma can in fact push the damage away, then she is no longer hit. Which would negate 5th brother entirely.

Being hit, doesn't specifically mean you take damage. A jamming beam can hit without dealing damage.

Consider Plasma Torpedoes for an example. Phasma defends against Plasma torpedoes and negates all but 1 hit result. She is considered "hit". She would pawn off that hit to a nearby friendly, but still lose a shield to the plasma torps clause "After this attack hits, the defender loses 1 shield."

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46 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Consider Plasma Torpedoes for an example. Phasma defends against Plasma torpedoes and negates all but 1 hit result. She is considered "hit". She would pawn off that hit to a nearby friendly, but still lose a shield to the plasma torps clause "After this attack hits, the defender loses 1 shield."

Arguably, the shield loss from Plasma Torps (ie, when hits are checked) is still within the Neutralize Results step, so it triggers before Phasma anyway. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

Arguably, the shield loss from Plasma Torps (ie, when hits are checked) is still within the Neutralize Results step, so it triggers before Phasma anyway. 

Yeah, that's probably right. I left timing out because I'm lazy.

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