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Mimi61

Maximizing Marie’s abilities. What works and what doesn’t

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There are a few investigators that I haven’t played yet and am very anxious to try Marie, as her ability is so unique. I imagine, like other investigators that have unusual builds, that there are strategies that work or don’t work, when playing her.  With the release some tantalizing new Mystic cards, I’m interested in thoughts, insights etc. from those of you who have embraced the power of doom. 

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I have yet to play Marie myself, but I have played alongside a Marie build that did quite well. 

At least initially, the most consistently useful source of doom is probably David Renfield; economy is good for any Mystic, and you can choose to either play it safe and only keep 1 doom on him for an extra resource each round and the extra action, or stack up the doom if you have a way to get rid of him for a big resource boost. Calling In Favours is a very useful card for clearing doom before the Witching Hour and still having the ally in hand to replay once it is the Witching Hour. Later on, Blood Pact is an always available way to have doom but the only way to remove it is with Moonlight Ritual or just letting the Agenda go, so it's not mandatory. Early on, an Arcane Initiate is a good option just to increase your chances of having Doom cards in hand, or you can simply accept that you aren't guaranteed to use your ability early on. 

Her flex cards are interesting given her stat-line - Hawk-Eye Folding Camera is an excellent choice for hand slots and Knowledge is Power is exceptionally strong; you can pick up useful Survivor cards like Take Heart or Lucky!. Using her 4 intellect is important - she's very well suited to Rite of Seeking, if you investigate normally with intellect before you finish by using your bonus action to investigate with the Rite. Or you can use her intellect for investigating exclusively, opening up an Arcane slot for Scrying or Seal of the Seventh Sign or something. If going that route you could even pick up Dr Milan Christopher alongside the HEFC (and make a beeline for Charisma).

Her weakness can be exceedingly hard to clear and has "global" effects meaning that it scales negatively by player count. On the other hand, it can be beneficial in a way, by allowing you to have doom on a card you control. If Baron Samedi appears late in the agenda, or on a short agenda, or in a scenario with lots of other doom on cards and/or Ancient Evils, it may be better to just accept that he's there and not try to clear him. Later on, Seal of the Elder Sign is a great way to pile doom onto him quickly.

The build my friend played was relatively conventional and straightforward, but I can think of a few weird/janky builds. With Sixth Sense, she can use Scavenging (like Jim and Agnes) for cards to commit or to recur Grotesque Statues. With Empower Self (Acuity), she could concentrate solely on intellect and still use Sixth Sense, basically being a super seeker with an extra action every round (but so much setup). But there's not that much scope for very weird builds with her given her restrictive deckbuilding - the unusual stuff mostly boils down to capitalising on her high Intellect, having a source of Doom, and playing the doom management minigame. 

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The only Marie build I’ve used is fairly unconventional and essentially turns her into a clue getter only. I can link a deck build that I had if you are interested but it’s not your typical build for mystic that will be more flexible and cover all your bases.

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2 hours ago, Allonym said:

With Sixth Sense, she can use Scavenging (like Jim and Agnes) for cards to commit or to recur Grotesque Statues.

Good, thorough analysis!

Note however, that Marie can't use Grotesque Statue, as her deckbuilding requirements include Spells lvl 0-5, but Mystic only lvl 0-3.

Edited by Herumen

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38 minutes ago, Herumen said:

Good, thorough analysis!

Note however, that Marie can't use Grotesque Statue, as her deckbuilding requirements include Spells lvl 0-5, but Mystic only lvl 0-3.

Ah, good catch. Coupled with her limited deckbuilding and imbalanced stats, I think that's enough to say that the Scavenging angle isn't really her thing; best left to Jim who benefits from multi token draws the most, and Agnes with her full-fledged Survivor off-class.

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3 hours ago, Allonym said:

I have yet to play Marie myself, but I have played alongside a Marie build that did quite well. 

At least initially, the most consistently useful source of doom is probably David Renfield; economy is good for any Mystic, and you can choose to either play it safe and only keep 1 doom on him for an extra resource each round and the extra action, or stack up the doom if you have a way to get rid of him for a big resource boost. Calling In Favours is a very useful card for clearing doom before the Witching Hour and still having the ally in hand to replay once it is the Witching Hour. Later on, Blood Pact is an always available way to have doom but the only way to remove it is with Moonlight Ritual or just letting the Agenda go, so it's not mandatory. Early on, an Arcane Initiate is a good option just to increase your chances of having Doom cards in hand, or you can simply accept that you aren't guaranteed to use your ability early on. 

Her flex cards are interesting given her stat-line - Hawk-Eye Folding Camera is an excellent choice for hand slots and Knowledge is Power is exceptionally strong; you can pick up useful Survivor cards like Take Heart or Lucky!. Using her 4 intellect is important - she's very well suited to Rite of Seeking, if you investigate normally with intellect before you finish by using your bonus action to investigate with the Rite. Or you can use her intellect for investigating exclusively, opening up an Arcane slot for Scrying or Seal of the Seventh Sign or something. If going that route you could even pick up Dr Milan Christopher alongside the HEFC (and make a beeline for Charisma).

Her weakness can be exceedingly hard to clear and has "global" effects meaning that it scales negatively by player count. On the other hand, it can be beneficial in a way, by allowing you to have doom on a card you control. If Baron Samedi appears late in the agenda, or on a short agenda, or in a scenario with lots of other doom on cards and/or Ancient Evils, it may be better to just accept that he's there and not try to clear him. Later on, Seal of the Elder Sign is a great way to pile doom onto him quickly.

The build my friend played was relatively conventional and straightforward, but I can think of a few weird/janky builds. With Sixth Sense, she can use Scavenging (like Jim and Agnes) for cards to commit or to recur Grotesque Statues. With Empower Self (Acuity), she could concentrate solely on intellect and still use Sixth Sense, basically being a super seeker with an extra action every round (but so much setup). But there's not that much scope for very weird builds with her given her restrictive deckbuilding - the unusual stuff mostly boils down to capitalising on her high Intellect, having a source of Doom, and playing the doom management minigame. 

Thanks. This is great. 
A couple questions. What about the new Mystic Ally Twila Price? With Rite of Seeking (or any spells requiring charges), does she stack up better than other options? 
Is De Vermis/Knowledge is Power too finicky? 
Lastly, what Spell event ratio would you suggest? 
 

 

Edited by Mimi61

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3 hours ago, Soakman said:

The only Marie build I’ve used is fairly unconventional and essentially turns her into a clue getter only. I can link a deck build that I had if you are interested but it’s not your typical build for mystic that will be more flexible and cover all your bases.

I’d be very happy to look at that deck build. 

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6 minutes ago, Mimi61 said:

Thanks. This is great. 
A couple questions. What about the new Mystic Ally Twila Price? With Rite of Seeking (or any spells requiring charges), does she stack up better than other options? 
Is De Vermis/Knowledge is Power too finicky? 
Lastly, what Spell event ratio would you suggest? 
 

 

Twila Katherine Price is an excellent card, especially if you are using Rite of Seeking, but she's expensive in exp (because you want Charisma) and cost. If you are using your spell assets a lot, she is well worth it. If you aren't likely to get much benefit from her, you'll know that by the time you want to buy her. You certainly don't want to prioritise taking her over upgrading your spells (at the very least upgrade to Shrivelling (3) and Rite of Seeking (2) first). 

De Vermis Mysteriis just...isn't all that impressive to me. Partly that's because it can be harder to discard a hand slot than an ally at a moment's notice, and partly because you probably want 2 copies of Hawk-Eye Folding Camera for a generic mystic spellslinger build. It's stronger if you're going down the Moonlight Ritual route as a way to use the Ritual more. Activating it with Knowledge is Power is certainly nice, but your average Mystic build already has ample excellent uses for Knowledge is Power.

That said, De Vermis is quite a bit better now that there's Read the Signs, Spectral Razor and Ethereal Form, all of which are great, and you might be able to find a lot of success with a Marie build that went for lots of events, using her intellect (or Sixth Sense) to investigate and events for combat, and using spell slots for sealing tokens or tech like Scrying. In that case I would be tempted to suggest having Occult Lexicon or Fingerprint Kit in your other hand and ignoring the Hawk-Eye route, probably Milan and/or Arcane Initiate for allies, St Hubert's Key for intellect. Actually the more I think about it the more I like it as a build direction. I'd worry about not getting De Vermis and Moonlight Ritual online, and it's sad that De Vermis activation doesn't count as a Spell for Marie's ability. My big concern, aside from general inconsistency and just not being as effective as a "normal" mystic build, is that you'd just be better off playing Sefina for her event synergies. 

As for ratio, no idea really. I don't play much Mystic anymore so when I do it tends towards a cookie-cutter build. You probably want the three Mystic events mentioned above (with the possible exception of Spectral Razor given Marie's dismal Combat), Ward of Protection, Moonlight Ritual, perhaps Storm of Spirits and Deny Existence. So maybe 12 assets, 10-12 spell events, 2xKnowledge is Power, and 4-6 skills.

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52 minutes ago, Allonym said:

As for ratio, no idea really. I don't play much Mystic anymore so when I do it tends towards a cookie-cutter build. You probably want the three Mystic events mentioned above (with the possible exception of Spectral Razor given Marie's dismal Combat), Ward of Protection, Moonlight Ritual, perhaps Storm of Spirits and Deny Existence. So maybe 12 assets, 10-12 spell events, 2xKnowledge is Power, and 4-6

Same. I started out playing a lot of Mystics and Seekers, but have been really enjoying the Survivor Rogue route lately. She just looks different and I thought with the recent new Mystic offerings, she may be fun to try, as we wait for Dream Eaters to finally finish releasing. Which reminds me, Where the Gods Dwell should be here tomorrow, so I will be waiting with bated breath for your thoughts!!! 

Edited by Mimi61

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1 hour ago, Mimi61 said:

I’d be very happy to look at that deck build. 

This deck stands up better in multiplayer where you really have someone else available to handle the enemies.

I created this lvl 0 deck to start from, but I'm actually thinking a magnifying glass may have ended up being more useful than the Occult Lexicon (which was kind of my emergency enemy management and barely saw play). The text to the side outlines some of the strategy, but a few cards were replaced since it was written. Connect the Dots was a fun idea, but it was just too resource expensive to bother with, and was replaced with a 2nd inquiring mind.

https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/342530

The idea is to use the archaic glyphs guiding stones in concert with her free spell actions from doom to rocket through locations by picking up a ton of extra clues using torrent of power fueled by alchemical transmutation charges, inquiring minds, and enraptured to continue putting more charges on guiding stones. Similarly, you'll eventually be able to pick up arcane insight to lower the shroud on the target location further, and time warp to redo a botched attempt.  And if another investigator has a copy of the Skeleton Key, all the better...

My end deck looked something like this:

https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/467220

The biggest issue is that picking up somewhere around 6 clues in one free action is completely overkill if you are playing in 2 player mode, where most locations only spawn 4-6 clues max.

Marie is one of my favorite mystics... it's actually a pretty close tie between her and Luke. Those free spell casts just feel so good, and Knowledge is Power is amazingly powerful no matter how you build her.

NOTE: Don't forget that Forbidden Knowledge can be great at using to clear allies with doom on them. No matter how you build your deck, if the doom is going on allies, having a copy or two of this card to take our Renfield, the Initiate, or Alyssa at the last moment is very handy.

Edited by Soakman

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4 hours ago, Soakman said:

This deck stands up better in multiplayer where you really have someone else available to handle the enemies.

I created this lvl 0 deck to start from, but I'm actually thinking a magnifying glass may have ended up being more useful than the Occult Lexicon (which was kind of my emergency enemy management and barely saw play). The text to the side outlines some of the strategy, but a few cards were replaced since it was written. Connect the Dots was a fun idea, but it was just too resource expensive to bother with, and was replaced with a 2nd inquiring mind.

https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/342530

The idea is to use the archaic glyphs guiding stones in concert with her free spell actions from doom to rocket through locations by picking up a ton of extra clues using torrent of power fueled by alchemical transmutation charges, inquiring minds, and enraptured to continue putting more charges on guiding stones. Similarly, you'll eventually be able to pick up arcane insight to lower the shroud on the target location further, and time warp to redo a botched attempt.  And if another investigator has a copy of the Skeleton Key, all the better...

My end deck looked something like this:

https://arkhamdb.com/deck/view/467220

The biggest issue is that picking up somewhere around 6 clues in one free action is completely overkill if you are playing in 2 player mode, where most locations only spawn 4-6 clues max.

Marie is one of my favorite mystics... it's actually a pretty close tie between her and Luke. Those free spell casts just feel so good, and Knowledge is Power is amazingly powerful no matter how you build her.

NOTE: Don't forget that Forbidden Knowledge can be great at using to clear allies with doom on them. No matter how you build your deck, if the doom is going on allies, having a copy or two of this card to take our Renfield, the Initiate, or Alyssa at the last moment is very handy.

Thanks! I’m not sure if we are going to be 2 or 3 player this time, but I see where you are heading with this. I just finished playing Sefina and between Double Double and Intel Report, if she didn’t have Rite of Seeking out, she could buy 4 clues in one action! (Which would tick Minh off to no end, especially if Sef exhausted Lola and bought one more just for good measure!) I will look at that deck build, especially if we end up with no Seeker. And thanks for the  Forbidden Knowledge reminder. 

Edited by Mimi61

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13 hours ago, Mimi61 said:

Same. I started out playing a lot of Mystics and Seekers, but have been really enjoying the Survivor Rogue route lately. She just looks different and I thought with the recent new Mystic offerings, she may be fun to try, as we wait for Dream Eaters to finally finish releasing. Which reminds me, Where the Gods Dwell should be here tomorrow, so I will be waiting with bated breath for your thoughts!!! 

I've seen the spoilers for Where the Gods Dwell (and indeed Weaver of the Cosmos), but I am away on holiday from tomorrow so you might need to wait a bit for my hot takes. 

I've also packed up 2 campaigns and 4 investigators ready for transport to an island for a week...

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6 hours ago, Allonym said:

e seen the spoilers for Where the Gods Dwell (and indeed Weaver of the Cosmos), but I am away on holiday from tomorrow so you might need to wait a bit for my hot takes. 

I've also packed up 2 campaigns and 4 investigators ready for transport to an island for a week...

How fun! Enjoy the sun and save the world. The perfect holiday!  
 

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