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Archangelspiv

Train thoughts: Come on FFG.....Carnor Jax....

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13 hours ago, DarthSempai said:

2 force charge. At the start of the engagement, may spend 2 force to prevent every other ship at range 0-1 from spending green token during attack or defense.

Can do it less often, and cost a resource, which seems to usually be the crux of 2.0 design (also affect friendly ships, to reflect is slightly backstabbing nature in killing of the royal guard and clone palp.)

Is two force to strong for him? Maybe. Thoughts?

Force basically makes him an I5 Soontir Fel or worse, an I5 Vader. Grand Inq is somewhat balanced by needing either a missile or to spend a mod to get 3 dice attack. A forced up Carnor would have double reposition and two mod slots.Mods would likely be stealth device first as four green dice back by an evade and two force is nigh unhittable. Second would be targeting computer to get Jedi-esque lock focus whenever he isn't getting shot.

His ability should be charge based, either 3 charge non-recurring or 2 charges recurring but he has the spend 2 charges to use the ability.

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1 hour ago, 5050Saint said:

Force basically makes him an I5 Soontir Fel or worse, an I5 Vader. Grand Inq is somewhat balanced by needing either a missile or to spend a mod to get 3 dice attack. A forced up Carnor would have double reposition and two mod slots.Mods would likely be stealth device first as four green dice back by an evade and two force is nigh unhittable. Second would be targeting computer to get Jedi-esque lock focus whenever he isn't getting shot.

His ability should be charge based, either 3 charge non-recurring or 2 charges recurring but he has the spend 2 charges to use the ability.

I totally agree, It would be Obi Wan in a 7b with the agility of Base model. 1 less shield, but if they can't mod focus results, who cares?

I think it should be 1 charge recurring, pick a ship at range 1, it cant mod results with green tokens. Although that makes Ten Numb interesting...I know in EU he was force sensitive etc, but gameplay > Fluff IMO

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16 hours ago, Ebak said:

Nice idea for flavour, but unfortunately it makes his ability useless unless your opponent has a force user. Which is why it should at least impact both focus and force, in the same way Leia can either allow someone to recover a force charge, or gain a focus token.

So what? Pilots like Genesis, Palob are similarly f-ed if they meet Force users or Droids (not just Seppies, but even IG88s, G4R, Leebo etc), Hotshot Gunner does nothing against Force users.

 

Others have already said it, but giving an Ini 4+ Pilot who is on a chassis

with 3 att and 3def,

an amazing dial, with blue 2hards,

linked BR-Boost/Boost-BR (making it a total piece of cake to get to range 1, compare to e.g. 4LOM!)

2 mod slots, 

 

now even 2 Force tokens (= 2 passive mods, which thus can be split between attack and defense) sounds like a terrible idea. This is the OP stuff we left behind with the capsized 1st edition, to let it slip under the waves, to never surface again.

Please no.

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I'm reading this thread like, how many beers have these guys had?

Was Jax so salt covered in 1.0 and I missed it?

wK4RXxA.png

His ability doesn't take away agency as far as dial movement or throwing dice, it simply takes away green token action/use. I still think his ability would be fine, and I play FO 2.0.

 

...the tea is fantastic over here today.

Edited by clanofwolves

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I4 or 5, 2 force, additional purple jam action on an interceptor frame.  Spend 2 force at the beginning of the round:  no dice mods from green tokens at Range 1.  (also shuts down reinforce)

It would still allow for exceptions like Dauntless title (range 0) and Zizi.  Target locks still work, Force mods still work, I think it would be an interesting piece!  Priced right of course.

Edited by Jyico

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6 hours ago, 5050Saint said:

...A forced up Carnor would have double reposition and two mod slots.Mods would likely be...

There's nothing that says he has to have two mod slots. There are other ships in the game already that have missing/different slots for different pilots (YT-2400 and Hyena Bomber off the top of my head) he would definitely have to cost more than Soontir even without mod slots.

5 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

...I know in EU he was force sensitive etc, but gameplay > Fluff IMO

It's definitely valid to bring down his power level by making the ability standard charge based instead of Force. I'm just a fanboy who wants one of my favorites to top the power curve 😬 I'm really liking the idea to

There's also a precedence argument that only on screen force users have gotten force charges in game. There's a few old EU new Jedi who missed out on force charges: Corran and Kyle most prominently.

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2 hours ago, Jyico said:

I4 or 5, 2 force, additional purple jam action on an interceptor frame.  Spend 2 force at the beginning of the round:  no dice mods from green tokens at Range 1.  (also shuts down reinforce)

It would still allow for exceptions like Dauntless title (range 0) and Zizi.  Target locks still work, Force mods still work, I think it would be an interesting piece!  Priced right of course.

I like this direction: purple jam, maybe no mod slots (since people keep bringing up stealth device fear), ability to spend all force for broader token blocking. I would really like him to mess with force specifically though...

So how about i5 interceptor, 2 force, purple jam action, ability at start of engagement to spend 2 force and prevent force use at r1 for the rest of that engagement.

And of course with force he would cost more than Soontir!

Edited by nitrobenz
cost more!

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14 hours ago, Nyxen said:

By the Force, what is that thing?

A Yuzzan Vong Dovin Basal.

Ergo, a rock that can attack.

3 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

I'm reading this thread like, how many beers have these guys had?

Was Jax so salt covered in 1.0 and I missed it?

wK4RXxA.png

His ability doesn't take away agency as far as dial movement or throwing dice, it simply takes away green token action/use. I still think his ability would be fine, and I play FO 2.0.

 

...the tea is fantastic over here today.

This.

I don't recall him ever being a Big Thing in 1.0.  Then again, I'm not much of a meta junkie.

Still, I think making his ability Force based certainly jives with the lore.

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Was he that bad?  Not really, but that was 1e and not "that bad" was a pretty relative.

Would a mostly-unchanged ability represent a kind of BS that probably shouldn't be in 2e?  To be sure.

How about this for a pilot ability: When an unstressed enemy ship at range 0-1 performs a Focus or Evade action, or spends a Focus or Evade token, you may spend 1 Force Charge to give that enemy 1 stress token.  Someone *can* still focus or evade, it just kinda sucks now.

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17 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

I don't recall him ever being a Big Thing in 1.0.  Then again, I'm not much of a meta junkie.

Still, I think making his ability Force based certainly jives with the lore.

Exactly.

13 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Was he that bad?  Not really, but that was 1e and not "that bad" was a pretty relative.

Would a mostly-unchanged ability represent a kind of BS that probably shouldn't be in 2e?  To be sure.

How about this for a pilot ability: When an unstressed enemy ship at range 0-1 performs a Focus or Evade action, or spends a Focus or Evade token, you may spend 1 Force Charge to give that enemy 1 stress token.  Someone *can* still focus or evade, it just kinda sucks now.

"To be sure." ...really? Having a shield-less ship that keeps token staking down for a part of the mat seems it could actually be wholesome by some definitions, especially if it pertained to calculate tokens as well.

And that pilot ability is fanough of that in our lovely game already. Perhaps it should be simplified to, After you perform an action, you may spend 1 force token, if you do, enemy ships at range 0-1 cannot spend tokens this round. At least this would insure Jax didn't just reposition with a red maneuver (for those that fear his ability was/is NPE).

...I certainly need more tea.

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2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

"To be sure." ...really? Having a shield-less ship that keeps token staking down for a part of the mat seems it could actually be wholesome by some definitions, especially if it pertained to calculate tokens as well.

Expanded to cover Calculate too?

What the heck are you putting in that tea, peyote?

Sure, the Interceptor has limitiations as a ship, but that's a hard lockout for three actions, on literally everything in a bubble.  There's no reasonable definition of wholesome where that fits the bill.  It just doesn't belong in 2e.

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34 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Expanded to cover Calculate too?

What the heck are you putting in that tea, peyote?

Sure, the Interceptor has limitiations as a ship, but that's a hard lockout for three actions, on literally everything in a bubble.  There's no reasonable definition of wholesome where that fits the bill.  It just doesn't belong in 2e.

Calculate is nothing more than a different Focus, so sure. 

All right, if you must have your way, blah, blah (my thoughts in an obviously peyote fulled rant :) ) then what about, At the end of Activation Phase, if you are not stressed, you may spend 1 force token, if you do, enemy ships at range 0-1 cannot spend tokens this round.

That insures Carnor hasn't done a red maneuver or used the chassis ship ability; that's pretty **** limiting on this ship. 

...the tea is strong today, I will admit to that.

Edited by clanofwolves

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On 2/24/2020 at 2:11 PM, Archangelspiv said:

Imperial Brothers and Sisters lend me your ears!

Carnor is one of my favourite Imperial pilots, he was all around great in 1.0, anyone who says otherwise is a Rebel and a traitor and shall be paid a visit by the ISB. It seemed to work for the Starwing, so I thought I would start the spam thread of Carnor, it’s about time FFG. 
 

Brothers and Sisters, tell us your favourite Carnor stories and let’s show FFG why he needs to be back in the game. 
 

Come on FFG! Let’s have a second named Interceptor pilot to use!

So question for the OP or really anyone else clamoring for CJ. Is it just the name you want to see back or the ability he had in 1.0? 
 

Be honest, if they printed an Interceptor no pilot ability 1 force charge and I4 and slapped Jax name on it does that make you happy?

If it’s the ability you’re looking for that’s a very different thing. Often it feels as if people want the latter more than the former. Since we’re not likely to get such a potentially powerful ability as it was in 1.0 without major drawbacks would you be so quick to use him if the ability is not there? If the Ability was with a different pilot but Jax was included as stated above would you still be all for using Jax over pilot X who had the ability? 
 

Genuily curious.

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1 hour ago, clanofwolves said:

Calculate is nothing more than a different Focus, so sure. 

All right, if you must have your way, blah, blah (my thoughts in an obviously peyote fulled rant :) ) then what about, At the end of Activation Phase, if you are not stressed, you may spend 1 force token, if you do, enemy ships at range 0-1 cannot spend tokens this round.

That insures Carnor hasn't done a red maneuver or used the chassis ship ability; that's pretty **** limiting on this ship. 

...the tea is strong today, I will admit to that.

It really isn't about the hoops Carnor needs to jump through to have a bubble of no-token-spending.  It's about the fact that Carnor shouldn't in any way have a bubble of no-token-spending.  If there's a Carnor Jax who can, on a 1-force-to-1-token ratio, somehow mess with someone else's stuff, that's within the realm of acceptable.  Again, I like best the thought that, when Carnor is around, it'll cost you a stress to do these things.  There's potentially other ways to have a fair ability.

But one force, to set up a bubble, to effect every ship, every time they attack, every time they defend, is utter 1e BS that doesn't belong in 2e.

When you have a bubble or such that works on *everything* it's got to be pretty mild.  Look at N-1 Padme, for example.  She's a hair expensive, but her cost isn't too far off, and she represents a balanced version of a "mess with everyone's attacks and defense every time" ability.  Contrast Seventh Sister crew.  Her ability has a 1-to-1 relationship between force spent and negative-tokens-handed-out.  When you have a powerful disrupting ability, it can't be an always-working-on-everything ability.

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On 2/24/2020 at 8:58 PM, Prosk_019 said:

In my little homebrew for the magnaguard starfighter, the way I made them 'counter' the force was to mess with focus results. Just throwin that out there

I like the idea of spending a charge (or force) to get rid of an eyeball result.

"When attacking or defending, you may spend one charge to cancel one [eyeball] result."

If that feels too strong, you can make it change the eyeball to a blank so it can still be rerolled.

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2 hours ago, Darth Seridur said:

I am on the "He is no longer canon, let him die" train.

Vult Skerris from the Rebels cartoon, should be the Interceptor pilot that people campaign for!

And Cienna Ree. 

I can see a modified version of Carnor's ability returning to the game. But it definitely will not be exactly the 1.0 version. Also, if Carnor returns, he isn't going to have the force. 

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1 hour ago, gamblertuba said:

I like the idea of spending a charge (or force) to get rid of an eyeball result.

"When attacking or defending, you may spend one charge to cancel one [eyeball] result."

If that feels too strong, you can make it change the eyeball to a blank so it can still be rerolled.

S'good. Simple, elegant.

I like

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5 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

"Enemy ships at range 0-1 cannot recover or spend force charges"

Print it!

Would be interesting, especially if old Jax has a Force Charge himself.... hummmmm?

...moving on from the tea now, where's my pint?

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5 hours ago, Ronu said:

So question for the OP or really anyone else clamoring for CJ. Is it just the name you want to see back or the ability he had in 1.0? 
 

Be honest, if they printed an Interceptor no pilot ability 1 force charge and I4 and slapped Jax name on it does that make you happy?

If it’s the ability you’re looking for that’s a very different thing. Often it feels as if people want the latter more than the former. Since we’re not likely to get such a potentially powerful ability as it was in 1.0 without major drawbacks would you be so quick to use him if the ability is not there? If the Ability was with a different pilot but Jax was included as stated above would you still be all for using Jax over pilot X who had the ability? 
 

Genuily curious.

It isn’t is simple as you allude to. Carnor for people who like the EU universe was a good pilot, had a good story and was a character people could get behind. 
it’s not just a name or an ability. It’s the same as why people want Corran to have a force point. 
 

For gameplay I would like an I5 squint pilot, it’s either top tier Soontir or bottom of the barrel generic. There is not a lot of pilots to pick from if you like Interceptors. 
I would be happy with in arc Range 0-1, spend a charge for ability to work on one enemy. Force on squints would be a nightmare, his 1e ability would be oppressive. In arc forces aggressive but smart play, not just hurr Durr imma in your formation now. 

Edited by Archangelspiv

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How about another route on this since 0-1 bubbles are bad (I agree with that)

I5 Carnor Jax:  2 Force, no recharge.  Force charges start the game on the red side.  Enemy ships declaring Carnor Jax as a defender may not modify dice unless upon declaration they recharge one of Carnor's force charges.  Carnor Jax may spend 2 force tokens when declaring an attack to cause the defender to not modify dice.  

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