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Boom Owl

In Game Tactics vs Boba

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Where in the rocks you engage Boba is very important - if Boba gets most of the way through, and his two turns are open like a "T" out the other side, he can slave one + boost and go basically anywhere. If your own lists two/three turns or repositions are blocked, then Boba can take un- or poorly- contested rear arc shots while your ships struggle to disengage, or inefficiently turn around with limited/no mods, or the percent of your lists arcs that can point at Boba decreases (Bombs/Mines effectively do this too). A lot of games go south when Boba locks a list into bumps, kturns, and weird half disengages when they realize they're locked in the rock/mine cage while he floats by and shoots backwards.

How fast or slow your ships are opens or closes various options. Boba's boosts dramatically offset the normal range/arc control disadvantage ships have when forced to hard turn in rather than dial a straight/bank; one/two turn into any of three boosts make forcing a difficult turn in way harder and/or less rewarding. As a bad player this is basically my only strategic skill which makes it a shame.

Getting half points on Boba and killing his wingmates earns you like 120-140 points. Lower end for Boba Fenn (20pt bid protects a lot) where halving Boba can feel like a war but still leaves the score X-55. Since that's the most you can usually hope for you gotta know how much of your own list you can afford to lose and know when to stop trying to finish Boba off because 80% of the time it's just not gonna happen, be happy with your half and hope they feed you fenn/whatever.

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This was going to be my attempt at HS Boba counter.


“Blackout” — TIE/vn Silencer    63
Fanatical    2
Advanced Optics    4
Ship Total: 69

"Rush" — TIE/vn Silencer    57
Advanced Optics    4
Ship Total: 61

Major Vonreg — TIE/Ba Interceptor    57
Daredevil    2
Advanced Optics    4
Ship Total: 63

I could go naked Kylo instead of Blackout for 200 points, no bid. But unless you are being silly and going under 185, what's the point these days. I also thought about going Outmanoeuvre instead on Vonreg and dropping optics.

Or this...

Major Vonreg — TIE/Ba Interceptor    57
Outmaneuver    6
Ship Total: 63

Omega Squadron Expert — TIE/SF Fighter    34
Mag-Pulse Warheads    6
Passive Sensors    3
Ship Total: 43
    
Omega Squadron Expert — TIE/SF Fighter    34
Mag-Pulse Warheads    6
Passive Sensors    3
Ship Total: 43
    
Omega Squadron Expert — TIE/SF Fighter    34
Mag-Pulse Warheads    6
Passive Sensors    3
Ship Total: 43

 

Hopefully Boba cant do squat with 2 die attacks at rng 2-3....

Edited by Archangelspiv

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My response to Fangs primarily, but also Boba, that I’m flying at our Hyper Store Event:

Syrup?

(80) Han Solo [Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter]
Points: 80

(79) Lando Calrissian [Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(5) Nien Nunb
Points: 84

(36) Jake Farrell [RZ-1 A-wing]
Points: 36

Total points: 200
 

It’s funny to keep shooting him at range 2 with double modded dice. 

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List building is not really a complex or useful in game strategy. All for sharing lists and then explaining how it should approach Boba though. Or how individual pieces simplify some otherwise difficult in game decisions against Boba. That sometimes highlights things you can attempt to do with basically any list in the matchup. Just not really invested in answering “how do I beat xyz?” with “look at this list I built”. Discussing both seems more constructive.

Edited by Boom Owl

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3 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

List building is not really a complex or useful in game strategy. All for sharing lists and then explaining how it should approach Boba though. Or how individual pieces simplify some otherwise difficult in game decisions against Boba. That sometimes highlights things you can attempt to do with basically any list in the matchup. Just not really invested in answering “how do I beat xyz?” with “look at this list I built”. Discussing both seems more constructive.

I thought Jb and I did....

his is double mod range 2 strat...

mine is either Int 6 kill boba or deplete token his attacks to death so they are ineffective.

list building is as an important strat against an archetype as is deploying, asteroid placement and your opening moves

 

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I just have one question.  All this hoo-ha about Boba.   

 

This is purely a function of what other can't bring to HS anymore right, rather than Boba being broken now all of a sudden?

 

Boba didn't even get a point reduction.  Contraband and Slave 1 went down by 1 points each. So that's a total of 2 points. 

So what is it that made Boba go from a no-show to an all out monster?  

 

My point is very little changed in the Scum lists, it's more other lists/pilots that got removed while Boba stayed almost exactly the same that now makes him somehow shine.   So is he now good, or has he always been this good and simply been overlooked the last 6 months while everyone was shouting about Nantex and Jedi?

 

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24 minutes ago, Bort said:

I just have one question.  All this hoo-ha about Boba.   

 

This is purely a function of what other can't bring to HS anymore right, rather than Boba being broken now all of a sudden?

 

Boba didn't even get a point reduction.  Contraband and Slave 1 went down by 1 points each. So that's a total of 2 points. 

So what is it that made Boba go from a no-show to an all out monster?  

 

My point is very little changed in the Scum lists, it's more other lists/pilots that got removed while Boba stayed almost exactly the same that now makes him somehow shine.   So is he now good, or has he always been this good and simply been overlooked the last 6 months while everyone was shouting about Nantex and Jedi?

 

Boba performed pretty well at worlds and has been a solid A-tier or S-Tier ship at various times throughout 2.0. Largely due to Slave 1 which was never really addressed after the first round of Boba nerfs way back when. 

He has access to basically any upgrade you might want and does just about everything besides barrel roll (excluding cloaking device). Real flexible platform that can be built in a bunch of different ways and frankly is extremely effective even without any upgrades.

Not a world ender by any means, just stands out big time in the hyperspace card pool. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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A couple thoughts after a few reps against Boba:

1) Blocking is still an effective tool for 5+ ship lists, but it serves a different purpose. Rather than force Boba into a bump, you aim to block one bank/turn option to make Boba more predictable, allowing the rest of your squad to set up on him. Tying up 2 ships trying to block both options is inadvisable, since now you've likely committed at least a quarter of your squad to not shooting.

2) Giving Boba a single ship at range 1 doesn't turn him into Rambo. 2 green dice plus reroll will fail at times. Just try not to give him two.

3) Spread out. This makes it easier to set up a flank and engage with most of your ships outside of range 1. Be wary of Boba Fenn though, as Fenn loves to dogfight single opponents.

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Boom nails the OP. Fighting Boba, for me, is much more about that stuff than list builds.

Where the builds come in is mostly in dealing with Fangs. Boba doesn't shine in isolation, he shines in context. Fangs are mean, with specific strengths. Focussing on Bob without heavy consideration for his wingmate/s is where failure breeds.

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16 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

list building is as an important strat against an archetype

Listbuilding is all we (the collective forums) ever talk about. In-game counterplay is harder to discuss so nobody ever does it so this is an active campaign to do more of it since that's where we all actually improve as players.

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23 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

(80) Han Solo [Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter]
Points: 80

(79) Lando Calrissian [Modified YT-1300 Light Freighter]
(5) Nien Nunb
Points: 84

(36) Jake Farrell [RZ-1 A-wing]
Points: 36

Total points: 200

I've got a copyright on that one! ;) 

I didn't get to fly this against Boba, but I flew it against 2*Bounty Hunter + Fenn, and the Firesprays just feel like better ships compared the the YT-1300s, mostly because of the 2 greens.

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40 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

@Boom Owl when you say that the boba-fenn player will "feed you fenn at range 2-3" do you mean that the opponent is baiting you with him and that you shouldn't go for him, or that it's a common mistake to capitalize on?

Good Fenn players are extremely rare. Its often very easy to predict where they will go and how they will attempt to flank. Alot like Ric.

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9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Slave 1 never should have been 1 point. I wonder if Boba the pilot truly is worth their point value though. 

I suggest its really the title that's the problem, but I'm not super familiar with this list. 

its undercosted for sure but nowehere near as undercosted as Lea crew was at 2pts.

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2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Good Fenn players are extremely rare. Its often very easy to predict where they will go and how they will attempt to flank. Alot like Ric.

From flying Fenn myself, I agree!

I remember playing against a triple Jedi list with Sense, the bid with me. He was flipping my Fenn dial in fairly hopeless fashion, since it was clear where Fenn would go, and that it would be bad for him :D 

Just beware the 1 hard/3 bank switch that you didn't think would fit past that obstacle. If he makes that and you aren't ready for it, pray to dice. He's coming and there's not a lot you can do about it now.

Whether you go for him when you think you can or not is just massively situational. It's totally dependent on the entire board state and the options all the ships have open. You sorta want to be extremely sure, before you set him up.

I played Phil GCs Fenn/Guri and got annihilated. He was UNBELIEVABLY aggressive and just caught me totally flat footed. It was an experience.... A lot rides on the deployment when it comes to that.

(And I didn't think that 3 bank fit.)

Overcommitting to one or the other is a real danger.

Mostly I try to catch Fenn, rather than go for him. I think of him like a thrown rock. He comes,... open wide and.... catch!

If he doesn't come, you're mostly good.

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I would assume the raw fire power of 5X is enough to tear through Boba early, have Rebel players found this list to be a tough match up in spite of all the 3 dice guns? I can see Boba arc dodging with S1 and Fenn nuking something, but I'd imagine the hp in the Scum list starts to get real low by the mid game - assuming equal skill between players.

I haven't played against Boba too often, but I generally focus a lot more on points and how much I can lose and still be ahead in that match up. I have seen a 5A player effectively disengage in multiple directions, allowing Boba to chase 1 ship, but if he killed it he'd no have re-rolls vs the other 3-4 shots coming in with Optics, made for an interesting game and the 5A player took it on time.

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3 hours ago, FriendofYoda said:

I would assume the raw fire power of 5X is enough to tear through Boba early, have Rebel players found this list to be a tough match up in spite of all the 3 dice guns? I can see Boba arc dodging with S1 and Fenn nuking something, but I'd imagine the hp in the Scum list starts to get real low by the mid game - assuming equal skill between players.

Let's assume that the 5x player has managed to joust Boba with their entire list. 3 X-wings at range 1 and 2 at range 2. Boba has Focus and Maul.

The expected damage is 5.5 hits on Boba

Meanwhile, Boba's wingmates have likely got a good flank going, and Boba himself will put bare minimum 2 damage into an X-wing. Next turn, a proton bomb will hit every x wing that tries to k-turn while Boba leapfrogs the rest of the list to shoot out the butt.

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2 hours ago, hargleblarg said:

Next turn, a proton bomb will hit every x wing that tries to k-turn

If I'm the 5X player there, I just close foils and disengage with focus > boost, as we come in to joust again the other 4.5 damage is a real possibility? Boba is crazy powerful, not doubting it, but I'd love to see a streamed game of a Boba + Thing player against an equally talented 5X player. Seems like K-Turning everyone into bombs isn't a great idea at the best of times. 

As a follow up, is there anything in particular Boba players really don't want to see across from them? And if so what is it about that archetype and it's general strategy that makes it tough?

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1 hour ago, FriendofYoda said:

If I'm the 5X player there, I just close foils and disengage with focus > boost, as we come in to joust again the other 4.5 damage is a real possibility? Boba is crazy powerful, not doubting it, but I'd love to see a streamed game of a Boba + Thing player against an equally talented 5X player. Seems like K-Turning everyone into bombs isn't a great idea at the best of times. 

I'm not trying to say that 5x can't beat Boba, but it's going to be a tougher battle than just raw fire power. The hypothetical situation I gave was about the best engagement you could realistically hope for (If you can trap Boba at range 2, the math changes, but it is not an easy feat thanks to Slave 1) and yet, even with 18 focused red dice you can still only expect to get half points. I don't know what the optimal 5x strategy is; you need to keep those guns on target as much as possible because Boba Fenn has the ability to erase one every 1-2 turns.

 

1 hour ago, FriendofYoda said:

As a follow up, is there anything in particular Boba players really don't want to see across from them? And if so what is it about that archetype and it's general strategy that makes it tough?

Boba dislikes agile ships that move after him, effectively turning off his slave 1 ability. Boba is usually over 100 points for a really big gun, and if he never gets to shoot it meaningfully he gets quite sad.

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3 hours ago, FriendofYoda said:

If I'm the 5X player there, I just close foils and disengage with focus > boost, as we come in to joust again the other 4.5 damage is a real possibility? Boba is crazy powerful, not doubting it, but I'd love to see a streamed game of a Boba + Thing player against an equally talented 5X player. Seems like K-Turning everyone into bombs isn't a great idea at the best of times. 

As a follow up, is there anything in particular Boba players really don't want to see across from them? And if so what is it about that archetype and it's general strategy that makes it tough?

I think the problem with disengaging with lower Initiative ships is the difficulty in effectively doing so. If you're at range 2 and want to avoid the bombs you're going to need to break off with a turn or a bank and all of those leave you at range 1-2 of Boba once he's done the optimal bank or turn of his own (modified with Slave 1 if necessary). IME, the turn where you break off is the biggest problem against Boba because it's almost impossible to do. He has double arcs and still gets great mods even if he bumps. What tends to happen in the best case scenario is Boba dials in a bank or turn, then chooses whichever direction gives him the better of a fully modified range 1 shot or a bump into a range 1-2 shot on the disengaging enemy. Meanwhile Fenn is coming in to chase down anyone trying to run.

Boba doesn't like I6 arc dodgers. At the moment that basically means either Fenn or Vonreg in Hyperspace, with maybe Poe able to pull off something similar too. The problem then is keeping the rest of your list alive because even in an endgame of Boba vs an arc dodger you're likely going to need to kill him to win as he'll be protecting 60-70 points at half strength including the bid. All the games I've seen where Boba loses or is in trouble have been when his wingman has died early. If you can set up a game where it's basically Boba vs your list you have a chance because then time is on your side. You can take time out to avoid bombs and set up good engagements without worrying about Fenn or another Firespray sweeping in and deleting a ship in one shot. The tricky thing there is keeping Boba off your back while you deal with the other ship. If the other ship is Fenn you need a bit of luck to catch him which often comes down to turning in to him when your opponent doesn't expect it.

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Boba dislikes losing his green dice. In extended, the prevalence of Wedge keeps him down (I think).

In HS, Outmanouevre on I6 (ie Fenn) or Intimidation on blockers (and multiple Intimidations stack...) should work nicely. If he's afraid to bump, he has far fewer manoeuvre options.

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3 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Boba dislikes losing his green dice. In extended, the prevalence of Wedge keeps him down (I think).

In HS, Outmanouevre on I6 (ie Fenn) or Intimidation on blockers (and multiple Intimidations stack...) should work nicely. If he's afraid to bump, he has far fewer manoeuvre options.

Also, in that vein: Boba does not like being tractored. Bringing Tractor Beams or Quadjumpers can help.

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