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Goken91

Striking as fire/water timing

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Striking as Fire and Water say that their effects last until the end of your next turn.  Spending opportunities comes before calculating the success of a role.  To me, that means their effects could be triggered both the turn you activate them (because the opportunity gets spent before the roll succeeds) and the next turn as it's still active.

Am I correct? Also, would other people striking that target also benefit from them in the meantime?

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7 hours ago, Goken91 said:

Spending opportunities comes before calculating the success of a role.  To me, that means their effects could be triggered both the turn you activate them (because the opportunity gets spent before the roll succeeds) and the next turn as it's still active.

Yes. If you trigger an effect during Resolve Opportunities, then it will be 'in play' for Resolve Success/Failure, unless it specifically instructs you to wait

(for example: spending 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf413431211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 for a critical strike says "If you succeed" so you have to wait until you actually beat the required TN before you resolve the critical strike).

 

 

Note that you still can't use Striking as Fire multiple times, as its effect is "The next time your target suffers a critical strike, increase its severity by 1 per 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 spent this way. This effect persists until the end of your next turn", so using it the turn you trigger it is basically identical in effect to a Razor-Edged weapon or the generic 'increase the TN of the fitness check to resist your next critical by 1' fire opportunity.

Striking as Water, by comparison, says "Your target treats their physical resistance as 1 lower per 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 spent this way. This effect persists until the end of your next turn" so potentially several allies can benefit, and you can benefit twice. This makes it a lot better than the generic 'ignore 1 point of target's physical resistance' because even if you don't have any allies you can benefit from the effect twice.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Note that you still can't use Striking as Fire multiple times, as its effect is "The next time your target suffers a critical strike, increase its severity by 1 per 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 spent this way. This effect persists until the end of your next turn", so using it the turn you trigger it is basically identical in effect to a Razor-Edged weapon or the generic 'increase the TN of the fitness check to resist your next critical by 1' fire opportunity.

 

Ah, yeah that's true.

Thanks for the response.

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31 minutes ago, Goken91 said:

Ah, yeah that's true.

Thanks for the response.

The only cool thing about Striking as fire is if you want to increase deadliness on your next attack your next turn instead of right now (make sure none of the other players use that increase).

Edit: epic design

Edited by Avatar111

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17 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

The only cool thing about Striking as fire is if you want to increase deadliness on your next attack your next turn instead of right now (make sure none of the other players use that increase).

Huh? No. It's great for getting your target out of the battle. Don't be a egotistic feckwad. Set up your buddy's killing blow. Who cares who strikes the last blow against a target?

Set it up with a high-damage weapon, then let your body with the high-deadliness weapon take them out.

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24 minutes ago, Tenebrae said:

Huh? No. It's great for getting your target out of the battle. Don't be a egotistic feckwad. Set up your buddy's killing blow. Who cares who strikes the last blow against a target?

Set it up with a high-damage weapon, then let your body with the high-deadliness weapon take them out.

the regular opportunity spending with fire does that though. very similar.
so the real "thing" about striking as fire is that it enables you, personally, to take advantage of it.

anyway, striking as fire is a bit of a "weird" design, especially compared to the opportunity usage (also a lot of "weird" design decisions in the example list to be fair). not "worst" but clearly not that much better.

Edited by Avatar111

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10 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

You really haven't met my PCs, have you? :ph34r:

I have to agree. "Finishing blow" is a big thing in our games. Not something you necessarily want, especially not with increased deadliness lol.

But the whole gameplay of putting people Incapacitated and having the tiny courtier run around and finish them off gruesomly (because that is the best thing to do, optimally) is just super ugly and awfully designed in term of "fun".
We had to houserule fix that.

 

Edited by Avatar111

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On 2/18/2020 at 4:01 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Note that you still can't use Striking as Fire multiple times, as its effect is "The next time your target suffers a critical strike, increase its severity by 1 per 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 spent this way. This effect persists until the end of your next turn", so using it the turn you trigger it is basically identical in effect to a Razor-Edged weapon or the generic 'increase the TN of the fitness check to resist your next critical by 1' fire opportunity.

Though, Striking as Fire does allow your allies to benefit if one of them lands the next critical, whereas the generic is specifically "your" critical.

Kata are for team-building! :D

Edited by Hida Jitenno

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30 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:

Though, Striking as Fire does allow your allies to benefit if one of them lands the next critical, whereas the generic is specifically "your" critical.

Kata are for team-building! :D

What you said is not true.

Reread the generic! :D

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Indeed. The difference between the generic and the Kata is that the generic increases the TN of the fitness check, whilst the last boosts the severity of the critical. Normally ~ the same, but the kata can push the resulting severity above the basic deadliness of the weapon, which the generic effect can't.

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On 2/23/2020 at 2:40 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Indeed. The difference between the generic and the Kata is that the generic increases the TN of the fitness check, whilst the last boosts the severity of the critical. Normally ~ the same, but the kata can push the resulting severity above the basic deadliness of the weapon, which the generic effect can't.

Ah, I took your statement to be a direct quote instead of checking the source. My mistake.

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