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Jawa4thewin

encumbrance increasing items

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Hello!

So is there any rule on limiting or restricting what can be used for encumbrance increasing items?

 

I know FFG Star wars does not have "equipment or body slots" for gear but I have seen some pretty silly things like a military backpack, utility belt, cargo clothes, load bearing gear...

 

When I see that I just think of the old lady from the Labyrinth movie...

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1 minute ago, Jawa4thewin said:

Hello!

So is there any rule on limiting or restricting what can be used for encumbrance increasing items?

 

I know FFG Star wars does not have "equipment or body slots" for gear but I have seen some pretty silly things like a military backpack, utility belt, cargo clothes, load bearing gear...

 

When I see that I just think of the old lady from the Labyrinth movie...

Nope. Unless there is something in a book I don't have (maybe FaD CRB? It had some updated rules for things), it is RAW to have fifteen backpacks. The main limitation is what the GM would allow.

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RAW pretty clearly states the encumbrance limit is Brawn +5. No matter how it gets stowed, there's already a cap in place for that. As to how it makes sense to get stowed and carried, that's up to the player and GM as to what would seem fitting; however a bag of holding type of thing isn't accepted in the RAW.

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5 minutes ago, Fistofpaper said:

RAW pretty clearly states the encumbrance limit is Brawn +5. No matter how it gets stowed, there's already a cap in place for that. As to how it makes sense to get stowed and carried, that's up to the player and GM as to what would seem fitting; however a bag of holding type of thing isn't accepted in the RAW.

That is the start for max encumbrance calculation.  Then items specifically state they increase the encumbrance a character can have.

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1 hour ago, Jawa4thewin said:

Hello!

So is there any rule on limiting or restricting what can be used for encumbrance increasing items?

 

I know FFG Star wars does not have "equipment or body slots" for gear but I have seen some pretty silly things like a military backpack, utility belt, cargo clothes, load bearing gear...

 

When I see that I just think of the old lady from the Labyrinth movie...

As someone who was in the military and actually did have to wear all of the above, that analogy is not that far off. 

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As most things in FFG, it is left wide open when it comes to restrictions one can put on encumbrance. (It's like that recent Initiative questions.  Sure, initiative is a simple check, per RAW.  But, feel free to add in difficulty & setback dice to represent how much of a disadvantage they are at. 

Now, it wouldn't be right to simulate the effects of over-encumbrance by giving them a Setback die to Agility or Brawn checks, but you COULD give out penalties for doing specific things.  Like, getting into a cockpit of a small starfighter.  Sorry, that giant modular pack isn't going to let you do that so easily. Nor is crawling through a ventilation shaft or squeezing through a narrow gap. Yeah, technically, you can carry the rodian's encumbrance 7 corpse and still be under your Threshold, but you both cannot fit into that A-Wing cockpit (or, perhaps with severe Piloting penalties).  Or, "It's going to take a few rounds to store that corpse and vibro-ax before you get in.  This is the old, "Hutt in an X-wing" analogy.  

So, no, there's no real limit, but you can demonstrate the impracticality of carrying all that stuff. 

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2 hours ago, Jawa4thewin said:

That is the start for max encumbrance calculation.  Then items specifically state they increase the encumbrance a character can have.

Are you sure it doesn't mean that it can hold X encumbrance of an item? I'm fairly sure the core book doesn't have items that raise your Brawn (which covers encumbrance).

 

What's the example you're using, stats-wise?

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58 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Backpack, any CRB: Backpacks increase the wearer's encumbrance capacity by 4.

That's what I was looking for. They can use however many they want, but it doesn't increase their encumbrance ability.

For example, character with a backpack and Brawn +5, would be able to hold 14 encumbrance of gear/items, but still suffer Maneuver penalties etc until they drop the backpack or what not.

Please understand that the specific words used in the descriptions aren't there by accident. From how that item reads, the backpack doesn't increase a players encumbrance limitations, just how much they can stow while under penalty.

Edited by Fistofpaper
Math is hard, corrected equation.

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Wow, that just doesn't seem thematically correct. I don't doubt the text, but the intent. It could be perhaps I view encumbrance more weighted towards...well, weight than storage and movement restrictions. *Shrug* 

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47 minutes ago, Fistofpaper said:

Wow, that just doesn't seem thematically correct. I don't doubt the text, but the intent. It could be perhaps I view encumbrance more weighted towards...well, weight than storage and movement restrictions. *Shrug* 

I agree somewhat, but the game presumes some good will and reason on the part of the players. I can't fault it for its simplicity.

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1 hour ago, Fistofpaper said:

Wow, that just doesn't seem thematically correct. I don't doubt the text, but the intent. It could be perhaps I view encumbrance more weighted towards...well, weight than storage and movement restrictions. *Shrug* 

It is narrative and encumbrance is more than weight. It is also size.  And i think it would be reasonable to not allow 2 backpacks without a penalty. I wouldnt allow 2 utility belts and so on. The game relies a fair bit on the gm and players being reasonable. 

Edited by Daeglan

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I've never actually used this house rule (continue reading), but considered it early on. I had an issue with backpacks expanding threshold without penalty. It made perfect sense with the system that more could be carried with a backpack, utility belts, etc, due to organization since encumbrance was not just about weight, but cumbersome. But, when you add a backpack you gained something like +4 encumbrance WITHOUT PENALTY. With some experience with government imposed field trips, backpacks are better then carrying the gear hanging from your belt or in your hands, but the amount of stuff in them should still cause some penalty perhaps.

So, I considered that encumbrance containers (backpacks, utility belts, LBE's), would reduce the encumbrance of items 1`/2 up to their limit. Thus a 6 encumbrance backpack would allow up to 6 encumbrance of your gear to be stored at 3 encumbrance. If you had a 2 encumbrance utility belt, then count 2 encumbrance of your gear as only 1 encumbrance. This would slow down on pack mules and make more logical sense.

But, I never imposed it. The RAW was good enough in my opinion and I've been one to not fiddle with RAW unless it was really important to me. I also thought that perhaps the designers had thought of the same thing, but did away with the math. Instead of perhaps saying a backpack held up to 8 encumbrance organized at 4 encumbrance, they just figured it was easier to say there was a net gain of +4. Perhaps that is a better way to explain the +4 backpack?

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1 hour ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I agree somewhat, but the game presumes some good will and reason on the part of the players. I can't fault it for its simplicity.

It's also possible I take a harder stance because my players tend toward cheating whenever possible. A recent example would be their argument that their telescopic sight worked at short range. They would attempt  to make "backpacks of holding", without penalties attached, by this viewpoint. 

If I were to rule on it, I would definitely limit the use to 1x unique item by location (belt, backpack, so on) and add setback dice if it seemed abused, in this scenario. (Getting back to OP query)

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5 minutes ago, Fistofpaper said:

It's also possible I take a harder stance because my players tend toward cheating whenever possible. A recent example would be their argument that their telescopic sight worked at short range. They would attempt  to make "backpacks of holding", without penalties attached, by this viewpoint. 

If I were to rule on it, I would definitely limit the use to 1x unique item by location (belt, backpack, so on) and add setback dice if it seemed abused, in this scenario. (Getting back to OP query)

Why wouldnt the telescopic sight would at short range? The problem is when you looking through the scope you are not aware of your surroundings...

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3 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Why wouldnt the telescopic sight would at short range? The problem is when you looking through the scope you are not aware of your surroundings...

I'm thinking it's sarcasm, but just in case...

The telescopic sight only works at long, and extreme long, combat ranges. Mechanically, it reduces combat difficulty by one, so RAW/RAI is that it doesn't work at other ranges.

Edited by Fistofpaper
Edit for clarity in italics.

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55 minutes ago, Fistofpaper said:

I'm thinking it's sarcasm, but just in case...

The telescopic sight only works at long, and extreme long, combat ranges. Mechanically, it reduces combat difficulty by one range, so at short range it would cause a combat check to be Simple.

Well some weapons do go back to 2 difficulty at engaged range...if someone wants to use a scope too close id give a boost to opponents targeting the due to lack of awareness

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12 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Why wouldnt the telescopic sight would at short range? The problem is when you looking through the scope you are not aware of your surroundings...

Not true if you're trained to use it with keeping both your eyes open. That a better way to use a telescopic sight than closing an eye, but it's more difficult and you can't do it without training. In game mechanics it means to have a talent like True aim or something close.

OT, it's possible to carry two backpacks. One on the back and the other on the front works but that isn't practical. One on the left shoulder and the other on the right shoulder works too but it isn't practical too. Both make you more a pack mule than anything else and should allow one or two setback dice to any checks.

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21 minutes ago, WolfRider said:

Not true if you're trained to use it with keeping both your eyes open. That a better way to use a telescopic sight than closing an eye, but it's more difficult and you can't do it without training. In game mechanics it means to have a talent like True aim or something close.

OT, it's possible to carry two backpacks. One on the back and the other on the front works but that isn't practical. One on the left shoulder and the other on the right shoulder works too but it isn't practical too. Both make you more a pack mule than anything else and should allow one or two setback dice to any checks.

In the military we could carry a full large duffel bag on our bag and another on our back. But it wouldn't be anything you would want to do anywhere near a battlefield. You shuffled along. I would say make it an Impossible difficulty to attack anything and give attackers a huge bonus to attack them in melee.

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FYI, I tried to pull together a list of all the encumbrance options a couple of years ago and this is what I came up with:

Quote

Draw something from storage, or put it away:  A character can perform a maneuver to retrieve an item from a pouch, backpack, satchel, bandolier, or some other accessible container. This can also be used to stow items in a similar fashion.

Semi-helpful link: http://swrpg.viluppo.net/equipment/gear/category/60/

Backpacks:

  • BACKPACK (EotE p180, 183.  50 credits):  Backpacks increase the character's encumbrance threshold by 4.
  • CRESHALDYNE MK. IV MODULAR BACKPACK (EtU p48, 51.  75 credits + 15 credits per Extra Pouch):  The Mk. IV Modular Backpack increases the user's encumbrance threshold by 3, plus an additional 1 point of encumbrance threshold for each accessory pouch to a maximum of 3.
  • IMPERIAL ARMY MILITARY PACK (DangCov p59. 60 credits):  This pack increases the user's encumbrance capacity by 6, but has the Cumbersome 2 quality.
  • MK. Ill MODULAR BACKPACK (SavSpirits (FaD) p46, 48.  75 credits + 15 credits per Extra Pouch):  The Mk Ill modular backpack increases a wearer's encumbrance threshold by 2, plus an additional 1 point of encumbrance threshold for each accessory pouch added to the backpack (to a maximum increase of 6).
  • MODULAR BACKPACK FRAME (Forged in Battle (AoR) p27.  10 credits + 25 per Storage Unit):  A Modular Backpack frame can hold up to two modules.  Each 'Storage Unit' Module increases your Encumbrance threshold by 3

Belts:

 

  • UTILITY BELT (EotE p183.  25 credits):  Utility belts increase the character's encumbrance threshold by 1.
  • RIM EXCURSIONS INC. MILITARY BELT POUCH (DangCov p59.  10 credits):  The military belt pouch is exactly what it sounds like, a pouch affixed to the user's belt. Though small, the belt pouch is designed to be accessed easily. It can hold two items that have encumbrance 0. The user can draw these items as an incidental.
  • LOAD-BEARING GEAR (AoR p187, 198, 100 credits):  Load-bearing gear, or combat webbing, is a system used by soldiers to carry
    necessary equipment on their persons in easily accessible pouches. They are commonly made of hard-wearing reinforced textiles, and  often with removable armor plates. Load-bearing gear increases a wearer's encumbrance threshold by 3
Bags

 

  • SURVEYOR'S BAG (EtU p48, 53. 50 credits): The bag itself has a vertical rectangular body with one large compartment, and it is typically worn over the shoulder and across the body, with the bag resting on the wearer's hip or at the small of his back. Surprisingly roomy for their compact size, surveyor's bags increase the user's encumbrance threshold by 2.
  • SPACER'S DUFFEL (EtU p48, 53. 50 credits): Roughly half the size of a grown human and featuring one large compartment, a sturdy zipper, and a single shoulder strap, spacer's duffels have become a symbol of the free-and-easy life of the common spacer. Spacer's duffels increase the user's encumbrance threshold by 2 but also have the Cumbersome 3 quality.
  • WIZARD POUCH (NoP (FaD) p106.  50 credits):  A wizard’s pouch is essentially a bag with a shoulder strap.  Wizard pouches increase a character’s encumbrance threshold by 1.
Armor

 

  • A/KT TRACKER UTILITY VEST (EtU p44, 45. 100 credits):  When worn, the Tracker utility vest increases the wearer's encumbrance threshold by 2.  (0 Def, 0 Soak, 0 Enc, 1 HP).
  • CARGO CLOTHING (DespAllies (AoR), p47, 48.  30 credits):  A character wearing cargo clothing may carry up to three items of encumbrance 1 or lower without those items counting toward his encumbrance value (0 Def, 0 Soak, 1 Enc, 0 HP).
  • HAULING HARNESS (DespAllies (AoR), P48.  1,000 credits):  A character wearing a hauling harness increases his encumbrance capacity by 6, but also upgrades the difficulty of any combat check he makes twice (1 Def, 1 Soak, 3 Enc, 2 HP).
  • PIT CREW COVERALLS (EndVigil (AoR), p44. 150 credits):  When wearing pit crew coveralls, a character reduces damage she suffers from fires and weapons with the Blast quality by 1.  In addition wearing pit crew coveralls Increases the character 's encumbrance threshold by 1 (0 Def, 1 Soak, 1 Enc, 1 HP).
  • CRESHALDYNE SURVIVALIST ARMOR (SavSpirits (FaD) p45.  350 credits?):  Wearing a suit of survivalist armor increases your encumbrance threshold by 1 (0 Def, 1 Soak, 3 Enc, 2 HP).

I always thought the practical limit was less 'what can you carry on your body' and more 'are you really walking into a cantina wearing a full military backpack and carrying a spacer's duffel while trying to be inconspicuous?'

 

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