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Smudger13

Proud Tradition

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I'm curious as to whether anyone has used mass copies of this upgrade. It seems like it could be very effective.

- opens the dial of the FO, which will increase time of target.

- Multiple copies means that it will be hard to flip them all. Having the evade and lock action also means this isn't a disaster, alongside multiple  blue maneuvers if the red focus is requires. 

Sample list could be Holo and three Omega with proud tradition, which leaves a fair few points, maybe for Ember?  

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I have ran lists with 2 copies of proud tradition one on muse and one on holo.  They both can mitigate the drawback of the card.  It's a lot of fun.

With your list I would consider replacing one of the omegas with muse.  Muses ability can help you avoid you opponent flipping the card on itself or a nearby ship.

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10 hours ago, Smudger13 said:

I'm curious as to whether anyone has used mass copies of this upgrade. It seems like it could be very effective.

- opens the dial of the FO, which will increase time of target.

- Multiple copies means that it will be hard to flip them all. Having the evade and lock action also means this isn't a disaster, alongside multiple  blue maneuvers if the red focus is requires. 

Sample list could be Holo and three Omega with proud tradition, which leaves a fair few points, maybe for Ember?  

Ive been running a few holo lists.

Holo with proud and DPC, Muse with proud, x2 init1 Silencers - Holo and muse have no problems relieving stress before firing. Silencers have good blues to take the holo stress and not care much. Only ran this once against Boba Fenn, and those two are not gonna take damage, so proud is safe from flipping.

Holo with proud, x3 Omegas with proud, x2 epsilon cadets - Worked good. Proud is just a cheaper Pattern here. FOs have a great dial, so if someone takes a damage, I just chalk it up as a crackshot. I havent had anyone flip the card yet. Rarely do my FOs sloop and get a kill shot, but having that focus for defense on sloops just feels good with your three green dice. Just gotta be careful on the kill shots. One time, Holo was stressed and outside range 2 of friendly, and I passed up a shot on a 1 hull T70 who can flip it if he was dead and I didnt want Proud flipped at the time in the game, and waiting another round to initiative kill the t70 was not detrimental.

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This is surprising to me... I saw Proud/False Tradition and immediately assumed it was a trap; it hands too much power to the opponent.  Giving them the option to permanently harm my focus option didn't seem like a great idea unless the ship in question could afford to never focus again (instead relying on locks and evade tokens), and even then... what I get in return is focusing after a red maneuver or after plowing through debris, right?  Unless you're really crunched on points or you need your tech slot for other things (shield regen), I'm kinda inclined to equip Pattern Analyzer instead.  It's more expensive, but has no downside besides the 5-point cost.  Or leave the slot naked.

But I guess if you're committed to Advanced Optics, Proud Tradition could be tempting?  I can see the idea with Muse/Holo, especially since both have Evade and Lock on their bar to cover their options once focus becomes more challenging.

Still, it seems like a beef list, swarm, or any foe with focuses to spend will be happy to flip that tradition in a heartbeat.  I'm naturally cagey about handing my opponent the pistol he'll use to shoot me unless I can definitely skew its aim. ;)

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Its also a safety card. Hit a debris, can still focus. Need to fly over a debris, get a focus. Got panic pilot crit? Can still focus next round.

Its has its benefits and drawbacks. But for 2pts its well worth it on cheap chassis. One game I just 5 straight my Omegas over a debris and focused, catching opponent off guard. One omega landed on a debris and focused. Next round did a hard 2 with template overlapping debris, lose a stress, gain a stress and focus for a range 1 shot.

It opens up options on the mat for your ships.

 

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I flew 5x Fanatical Optics Omega Experts a while back, and I think that squad would be a LOT better with PT than Fanatical. I'm not going to fly it because (A) I burned out on that archetype and (B) I'm not buying 5(!) TIE/ba expanansions for the cards, but it's a great combo. That /sf setup has the best time-on-target in the game, and PT allows every single attack to be at full strength. The card flip isn't a big threat there - red focuses on one of five identical pilots is about a worthwhile trade for the price the opponent pays, because the dial has decent enough blues for a rear-arc ship.

I'd still be tempted to add one copy of PT on an /sf in a squad. Backdraft/PT/Optics seems good for 45 points - you can even use PT to s-loop on the approach to force the rear arc.

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It's a little on the pricy side, Proud Tradition paired with Pattern Analyzer on the TIE/sf is really strong. Do a 1-turn, either lock, evade or trigger Passive Sensors, take a stress, and then focus. Starting the first engagement with either full offensive or full defensive mods is pretty powerful. With that dial, shedding the stress on the next turn is easy enough.

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5 minutes ago, Okapi said:

It's a little on the pricy side, Proud Tradition paired with Pattern Analyzer on the TIE/sf is really strong. Do a 1-turn, either lock, evade or trigger Passive Sensors, take a stress, and then focus. Starting the first engagement with either full offensive or full defensive mods is pretty powerful. With that dial, shedding the stress on the next turn is easy enough.

The Passive/Proud/Pattern (3P?) combo doesn't work like that because the ship will be stressed while the Passive triggers during engagement. Passive grants a lock or calculate action when it triggers, and none of the cards allows that while stressed.

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9 minutes ago, Dasharr said:

The Passive/Proud/Pattern (3P?) combo doesn't work like that because the ship will be stressed while the Passive triggers during engagement. Passive grants a lock or calculate action when it triggers, and none of the cards allows that while stressed.

Good point! Well, I guess you could bring Muse along to mitigate that.

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14 hours ago, Wazat said:

This is surprising to me... I saw Proud/False Tradition and immediately assumed it was a trap; it hands too much power to the opponent.  Giving them the option to permanently harm my focus option didn't seem like a great idea unless the ship in question could afford to never focus again (instead relying on locks and evade tokens), and even then... what I get in return is focusing after a red maneuver or after plowing through debris, right?  Unless you're really crunched on points or you need your tech slot for other things (shield regen), I'm kinda inclined to equip Pattern Analyzer instead.  It's more expensive, but has no downside besides the 5-point cost.  Or leave the slot naked.

But I guess if you're committed to Advanced Optics, Proud Tradition could be tempting?  I can see the idea with Muse/Holo, especially since both have Evade and Lock on their bar to cover their options once focus becomes more challenging.

Still, it seems like a beef list, swarm, or any foe with focuses to spend will be happy to flip that tradition in a heartbeat.  I'm naturally cagey about handing my opponent the pistol he'll use to shoot me unless I can definitely skew its aim. ;)

  • I think it works for three main reasons on a TIE/fo.
    • First, they're cheap.  Without stress tricks, I don't think I'd put this on anything other than a cheap TIE/fo.  It basically winds up being a combo of Pattern Analyzer and Crack Shot for 2 points.
      • The simple fact of saving 3 points off of Pattern Analyzer is the biggest reason to take Proud.
    • Second, TIE/fo have great blues that they don't really need.  They can kind of afford to take red Focus actions.
    • Third, TIE/fo don't really mind too much if they have to Lock or Evade if they want to stay stress-free.
  • Those are kind of the same reasons why it'd be really bad on a TIE Silencer.  They aren't cheap, they *need* their blue moves to clear Autothrusters stress, and they really prefer Focus actions.
  • TIE/sf kind of fits in the middle.  Not as cheap, the blues are not exceptional but more effective since they've got the rear arc, but they're also fine using non-focus actions to stay stress-free.
  • I think the basic TIE/ba is a bit too expensive, but they can probably get by without focus actions, and they've got great blues.

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Although Proud tradition does improve the already-good synergy of Pattern Analyser with the linked rotate (edit: on the /sf). It allows red move > PA > lock action > linked rotate > gain stress > focus action in the perform action step. So lock+focus+rotate.

Edited by Dasharr

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29 minutes ago, Okapi said:

It's a little on the pricy side, Proud Tradition paired with Pattern Analyzer on the TIE/sf is really strong. Do a 1-turn, either lock, evade or trigger Passive Sensors, take a stress, and then focus. Starting the first engagement with either full offensive or full defensive mods is pretty powerful. With that dial, shedding the stress on the next turn is easy enough.

It also wouldn't work because Passive Sensors has to be the normal action in the perform action step.  Pattern Analyzer isn't that, and Proud only lets you Focus.

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2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

It also wouldn't work because Passive Sensors has to be the normal action in the perform action step.  Pattern Analyzer isn't that, and Proud only lets you Focus.

Also a good point. :P Only ever tried the combo with Quickdraw, with FCS. Still, focus/evade on an I3 isn't bad either.

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On 2/15/2020 at 7:42 AM, Dasharr said:

Although Proud tradition does improve the already-good synergy of Pattern Analyser with the linked rotate (edit: on the /sf). It allows red move > PA > lock action > linked rotate > gain stress > focus action in the perform action step. So lock+focus+rotate.

That double mod on a red maneuver is actually pretty cool, and I like lists with these types of delicate shenanigans for casual play.  Do a sloop or hard turn on approach and you have lock + focus on your initial engagement, and it's repeatable until the opponent sacrifices to cripple PT.  That's solid for a generic pilot.  It's just hard to avoid over-investing points.

But perhaps some SFs, optionally with Muse.

Muse (TIE/fo) with PT + Pattern Analyzer (37)

3x Omega Squadron Expert (TIE/sf) with PT + Pattern Analyzer + Fire-Control System + Special Forces Gunner (53)

 

or

Omega Squadron Expert (TIE/sf) with PT + Pattern Analyzer + Fire-Control System + Special Forces Gunner (53)

Muse (TIE/fo) with PT + Pattern Analyzer (37)

3x Omega Squadron Ace (TIE/fo) with PT + Pattern Analyzer (37)

 

or

Muse (TIE/fo) with PT

Omega Squadron Ace (TIE/fo)

4x Omega Squadron Ace (TIE/fo) with PT + Pattern Analyzer (37)

 

Or something along those lines... Not something I'd want to run in a tournament, as that's a lot of expansions to buy for the cards and the fleet isn't necessarily able to hold its own in the meta, but should be fun to proxy in casual play.

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So I tried a fleet out and I found Proud Tradition + Pattern Analyzer to be a very fun combo indeed.  So I've learned the error of my ways -- PT is cool.

I also learned that I need to remember to equip turrets on my TIE/sf bases... I treated them like 3-dice forward arc ships all day and probably would have done better if I'd been thinking straight.  :)  All the same, it's a fun fleet.  And I won both casual night games despite not having the turrets, so there may be some decent bite to the fleet?  I can't say -- today was very casual, and I flew very casual.

You'll have to ask someone else if this type of fleet belongs anywhere near the meta.  My suspicion is it doesn't; I just built it around a fun gimmick.  So before anyone gets upset that I'm poisoning the minds of today's youth with my lackadaisical list design, let me be clear: this was just for casual night, and I'm not pretending otherwise.  ;)  With that said...

 

"Muse" (30)    
    Proud Tradition (2)    
    Pattern Analyzer (5)    
Ship total: 37  Half Points: 19  Threshold: 2    

"Ember" (52)    
    Proud Tradition (2)    
    Pattern Analyzer (5)    
Ship total: 59  Half Points: 30  Threshold: 2    

Omega Squadron Expert (34)    
    Proud Tradition (2)    
    Pattern Analyzer (5)    
    Special Forces Gunner (10)    
Ship total: 51  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 3    

Omega Squadron Expert (34)    
    Proud Tradition (2)    
    Pattern Analyzer (5)    
    Special Forces Gunner (10)    
Ship total: 51  Half Points: 26  Threshold: 3    

Total: 198    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=First Order&d=v8ZsZ200Z235X319W206WY383X319W206WWY285X319W206WW182WWY285X319W206WW182WW&sn=Proud FO Scrublords&obs=

 

It was nice putting Muse to such good effect, and Ember was fun.  She's quite good at forcing lethal damage through once there's blood in the water.

I may need to ask about this in the rules forum, but I think Ember may be immune to enemies spending a focus once one of them in a cluster is damaged?  Maybe not?  Proud Tradition lets them spend a focus after the attack, but I thought I'd remembered an official ruling that "After Attacking" was still during the attack.  Though now that I look it up, the rule I can find only applies to the defender remaining the defender until aftermath is done -- so maybe this is a bust.

Either way, they can still suffer a crit to remove it, especially if they're already dead and have nothing to lose.

 

The TIE/ba is always solid, but those TIE/sfs also did a lot of work, especially on a few rounds where they moved in to bump and/or double-mod.  I really like being able to turn a sloop/k-turn/1-turn into a lock + focus or evade + focus; that's fantastic utility.  The Evade + Focus kept Ember alive on clutch rounds.

I found I had to usually remind my opponent they could spend a focus or suffer a crit to rob me of PT; they often didn't remember on their own, which could be valuable.  By the time the opportunity comes around, it's easy to have forgotten.  Probably will be different in a more competitive environment (those players do remember), but this was fun casual so I was happy to give reminders.

It hurt a bit to lose PT, not because my focuses became red, but because I lost the double-mod combo and it had served me pretty well.  Muse helped a lot with keeping stress off teammates so they couldn't lose PT; I guess that's why she had to be murdered.

As for the 2-point bid... I could see giving one TIE/sf Fire-Control System instead.  But against other init 4s, 3s, and 2s I did alright being able to choose first player.  Lists at those inits tend to spend right up to 200.  Though I suspect this list does fine going first or last; Muse and the SFs are good bumpers, and Ember is more than happy to go last.  And Ember isn't expecting to arc-dodge any real aces anyway; I treated her more like her generic buddies.  That said, going after other init 4s was pretty handy.

Upgrading to Vonreg and tossing PT and PA might not be a bad plan either... Adding an ace to the list sounds like a solid way to complement the scrub swarm.  Holo is also an interesting choice in this fleet.  But for today's games I wanted to try out Ember since I've never seen her on the table.  She did a good job, though I didn't face any init 5s or 6s so take that for what it's worth.

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So I’ve been playing Holo, Ember and 3 Omega Aces all with proud tradition. 
It’s fun - reminds a bit of 5 A Wings as the time on target for the ships is really high. It’s absolutely not as good as 5 A Wings or X Wings though. Holo does help by adding an end game ace

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