Jump to content
TK 421

Tie Bombers?

Recommended Posts

Unfortunately I don't get to play as much as I'd like to, so help me a bit regarding Tie Bombers. Too expensive? Dial too restrictive? or just some better options (Like is it just better to use TAv1's)? Seems like they might be a lethal option to some lists out there?  I've not really used Empire, I'm in R&D mode right now. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was Midwest Scrub who did an analysis of various generics a while back and suggested naked Bombers might be more cost-efficient than one would expect. Think of them like a Torrent but with an extra hull and a very useful linked action. They’re not gonna dominate a game, but they can block and cause trouble while being moderately hard to kill.

I haven’t put mine on the table since reading that, but I very much intend to try them as that kind of heavy-swarmer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, CoffeeMinion said:

I think it was Midwest Scrub who did an analysis of various generics a while back and suggested naked Bombers might be more cost-efficient than one would expect. Think of them like a Torrent but with an extra hull and a very useful linked action. They’re not gonna dominate a game, but they can block and cause trouble while being moderately hard to kill.

I haven’t put mine on the table since reading that, but I very much intend to try them as that kind of heavy-swarmer.

It was probably me.  TIE Bombers are insanely cheap for their stats and dial.  They’re fine naked, I like mine with Proxy’s but there’s lots of nice shooty options too if you’re confident of getting TLs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TK 421 said:

Unfortunately I don't get to play as much as I'd like to, so help me a bit regarding Tie Bombers. Too expensive? Dial too restrictive? or just some better options (Like is it just better to use TAv1's)? Seems like they might be a lethal option to some lists out there?  I've not really used Empire, I'm in R&D mode right now. :)

Are you talking in tournament mode?  Regular games?   This does matter.

Do you mean one in a list?  A list of nothing but Tie Bombers?   

Tie Bombers can pack a lot of punch, but are susceptible to Crits rather bad.  You don't want to load them up too much, but they can take a lot of different options.  Their dial isn't too bad, either.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's the thing about bombers. They're, quite surprisingly, actually very very good bombers. For me I'm happy to just add proton bombs and let them go. Seems crazy but it works and it's very very affordable. My dream list of 6x Scimitar with Proton Bombs was just made legal again, and I'm itching to try it if I can get anyone to play extended with me.

Second after a payload is barrage rockets, though I'm not really a fan of them. I prefer concussion or proton torpedoes, though I've found APTs work better due to low-initiative locking issues. Proton Rockets seem nice but often don't pay off.

Edited by ClassicalMoser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have played a *lot* of TIE Bombers, all the way back from 1E. They're among my favourite ships in the game to play. However, in a competitive scene, they get eaten alive. In a non-competitive scene, they still struggle a bit compared to counterparts in the same niche. On paper, their stats are really good for the price. On the table, their 2AGI and no shields means crits land with alarming frequency, and the target lock struggle can be real against ace lists. One or two in a list carrying a bomb of your choice and/or ordnance like Clusters or Plasmas can give your list an edge, and the Scimitars are cheap enough to consider for that in many lists. Bombers en masse, as much as it pains me to admit, are really outclassed by other options.

In normal, one-off Extended format games, though, they're a lot of fun. You can use Jendon to augment the target lock issue and spam out a bunch of tooled up Bombers to really shake up those aces. Big fan of throwing Vader on Jendon and running the squad wide to give folks confusion on target priority, and cover the rather wide butts on those Bombers in the process. Jonus also begins to make more sense once there's four on the board, too, albeit in a much tighter formation.

 

Staring longingly at my 11 TIE Bombers We'll find a way...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^ that simply isn’t true.  Six Hyena bombers with Proxy’s won Brazilian nats before the points change and now you can do it with 6 TIE Bombers, which is as good or even better.

People just have their missile/torp blinkers on, even in an age of massed generics getting work done with 2 dice primaries and no bombs.

Edited by Stay OT Leader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stay OT Leader said:

It was probably me.  TIE Bombers are insanely cheap for their stats and dial.  They’re fine naked, I like mine with Proxy’s but there’s lots of nice shooty options too if you’re confident of getting TLs.

Sorry man, my bad! I at least remembered the analysis, and thought it was pretty good!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Stay OT Leader said:

Six Hyena bombers with Proxy’s won Brazilian nats before the points change and now you can do it with 6 TIE Bombers, which is as good or even better.

That list was able to park on rocks and dump mines out the front. TIE Bombers definitely can't do those things. Hyenas got cheaper too (and by more), so the aforementioned list is even better now, and the TIE Bomber hardly changed at all. Not saying bombers aren't good (they are) but that's certainly not a good case for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, ClassicalMoser said:

That list was able to park on rocks and dump mines out the front. TIE Bombers definitely can't do those things. Hyenas got cheaper too (and by more), so the aforementioned list is even better now, and the TIE Bomber hardly changed at all. Not saying bombers aren't good (they are) but that's certainly not a good case for them.

Not true.  They had landing struts, yes, but only the Seppie Bomber can vomit mines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Stay OT Leader said:

Not true.  They had landing struts, yes, but only the Seppie Bomber can vomit mines.

Bombardment drone but point taken.

They can do it with two bombardment drones now though. I was thinking of a different tournament where someone used the 2 Bombad 4 TUB list, all with Proxy + Struts and did well. Don't remember the event at the moment.

I do agree though that the Scimitar in particular is an excellent bomb platform. You can do 2 proxy, 4 Proton, Fuses on all, or pare them back a little to throw in a couple Saber Squadron Interceptors. The 3-point jump for the Gamma seems way too much though. No idea why they keep buffing the Scimitar without the Gamma. It's not like the Gamma is doing well and the Scimitar isn't...

Edited by ClassicalMoser

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only play FO in 2.0 currently, but I am interested in this topic as I did love TIE/sa, especially Tomax Bren with Crackshot as a squad member with two other decent Aces.

I'll keep checking on this... though I need little assistance being talked into purchasing more X-Wing upgrade products (though I have held off, amazingly).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stay OT Leader said:

It was probably me.  TIE Bombers are insanely cheap for their stats and dial.  They’re fine naked, I like mine with Proxy’s but there’s lots of nice shooty options too if you’re confident of getting TLs.

Yeah, I just found your article. It was very helpful . . . I'm toying w/ Rhymer + Vader + Whisper . . . it's expensive, but I'm playing a bit of "pick your poison." It worked against my opponent last night as he chose to give up his flanks to Vader and Whisper to pursue Rhymer (a missile / torpedo version), who amazingly held out and ended up launching 5 dice into Obiwan at range two . . . but probably wouldn't work against more competitive lists. I also put snapshot on Rhymer to try and control things a bit . . . but I'm still toying with this . . . I like bombs and think they may be the answer to some vulture swarms too . . . they also do good against aces b/c seems like aces don't like to be redirected in their maneuvers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

I only play FO in 2.0 currently, but I am interested in this topic as I did love TIE/sa, especially Tomax Bren with Crackshot as a squad member with two other decent Aces.

I'll keep checking on this... though I need little assistance being talked into purchasing more X-Wing upgrade products (though I have held off, amazingly).

Tomax is sad. Crack as primary-only means he's stuck in an overpriced bomber role, or else his ability might as well be blank.

Adrenaline Rush, Cool Hand, or Lightning Reflexes really need to come back as 1-2 point 1-charge upgrades. Rhymer would love them too...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Tomax is sad. Crack as primary-only means he's stuck in an overpriced bomber role, or else his ability might as well be blank.

Adrenaline Rush, Cool Hand, or Lightning Reflexes really need to come back as 1-2 point 1-charge upgrades. Rhymer would love them too...

yeah. tomax is sad. 

Adrenaline Rush was a FINE upgrade. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Tomax is sad. Crack as primary-only means he's stuck in an overpriced bomber role, or else his ability might as well be blank.

Adrenaline Rush, Cool Hand, or Lightning Reflexes really need to come back as 1-2 point 1-charge upgrades. Rhymer would love them too...

Elusive and your ordinance of choice should work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Tomax is sad. Crack as primary-only means he's stuck in an overpriced bomber role, or else his ability might as well be blank.

Simply being an Init 5 with Mag-Pulse Warheads or other cheap ordnance is probably fine on him.  Even as a nearly blank text ship, 35 seems pretty fair for an Init 5 ordnance carrier who can link a roll into a lock.  Considering that most ordnance is Range 2-3, and Crack Shot is more of a Range 1 thing, again with the option of roll into Lock.

5 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

It was probably me.  TIE Bombers are insanely cheap for their stats and dial.  They’re fine naked, I like mine with Proxy’s but there’s lots of nice shooty options too if you’re confident of getting TLs.

27 points for a Scimitar is really well priced.

7 hours ago, TK 421 said:

Unfortunately I don't get to play as much as I'd like to, so help me a bit regarding Tie Bombers. Too expensive? Dial too restrictive? or just some better options (Like is it just better to use TAv1's)? Seems like they might be a lethal option to some lists out there?  I've not really used Empire, I'm in R&D mode right now. :)

Yeah, if it's possible to use a v1 Generic Inquisitor, it's probably the best bet.  Whether or not they're actually a tonne better than Bombers in a Jendon list, they're probably a lot easier.  That's the thing about the Force.  To be sure, it's good.  But also highly important: the Force is easy and reliable.

Say... I wonder.  A Jendon/2 Inq list can only fit, say, Soontir or Grand Inquisitor.  A Jendon/2 Bomber list can fit Darth Vader or potentially even Rexler Brath, since a bomber is 10 points cheaper than an FCS Inquisitor.  Against incoming 3-dice focused attacks, they're fairly similar levels of toughness.  A bomber is a little bit more likely to be alive after 3 attacks than an Evading v1, although the bomber more likely to die to 4 attacks.  Similar toughness, but the v1 is going to be better at highrolling.

Meanwhile, a Bomber will hit a hair harder on the opening round, with a full focus rather than just a force (presuming an Evading v1).  That said, Bomber is more likely to spend the lock, for weaker attacks on following rounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:

^^^ that simply isn’t true.  Six Hyena bombers with Proxy’s won Brazilian nats before the points change and now you can do it with 6 TIE Bombers, which is as good or even better.

People just have their missile/torp blinkers on, even in an age of massed generics getting work done with 2 dice primaries and no bombs.

My point is that there are better alternatives to Bombers if you're doing any sort of ordnance/payload lists. The fact that 6x Hyenas won isn't an argument against that. Bombers are decent - you're talking to someone who still counts it as one their favourite ships in the game - but being a jack of all trades means being a master of none. Hyenas are a little more flexible than Bombers, and are a better platform for payloads in many cases. Bombers aren't without their tricks, but doing everything decently means something else will always have an edge on the niche you want. Even within Imperial ships, you could argue 5x Strikers with prox mines are more effective than 6x Bombers with same (5x Strikers with prox even gives you room for Bombardiers on each, and bumping one to Vagabond, who is brilliant with them). Gunboats are better ordnance carriers for the system slot and SLAM alone. Sure, both are more expensive, but not by much, but both have more offensive capability outside of their secondary weapons (Strikers are 3Atk and Gunboats get cannon options), and both have movement abilities that can get them potentially out of arc.

Like I said, I love TIE Bombers, but I'm just saying a lot of what they can do is covered by other ships too, often more effectively in the current metas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, NakedDex said:

 You can use Jendon to augment the target lock issue and spam out a bunch of tooled up Bombers to really shake up those aces...snip... Jonus also begins to make more sense once there's four on the board, too, albeit in a much tighter formation.

 

Staring longingly at my 11 TIE Bombers We'll find a way...

Play Epic 500pts.

Gozanti, Kagi, Jendon, 2 alpha Interceptors plus Soontir. Capt Jonus with Concussion and Cluster Missiles, plus 2 Scimitars with the same. And a 4th Scimitar with Clusters and Proton Torps in the wing slot behind Jonus.

Feel free to replace some/all the Interceptors with more bombers - I only have 4 (and 12 Interceptors).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, TK 421 said:

Unfortunately I don't get to play as much as I'd like to, so help me a bit regarding Tie Bombers. Too expensive? Dial too restrictive? or just some better options (Like is it just better to use TAv1's)? Seems like they might be a lethal option to some lists out there?  I've not really used Empire, I'm in R&D mode right now. :)

I love the TIE bombers.  I usually fly 2 Scimitar Bombers with proton bombs and barrage rockets alongside Darth Vader and Marek Stele with FCS and do pretty well.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (27)    
    Barrage Rockets (8)    
    Proton Bombs (5)    
    
Ship total: 40  Half Points: 20  Threshold: 3    
    
Scimitar Squadron Pilot (27)    
    Barrage Rockets (8)    
    Proton Bombs (5)    
    
Ship total: 40  Half Points: 20  Threshold: 3    
    
Darth Vader (67)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    
Ship total: 69  Half Points: 35  Threshold: 3    
    
Maarek Stele (45)    
    Fire-Control System (2)    
    
Ship total: 47  Half Points: 24  Threshold: 3    
    
    
Total: 196    
    
But now I'm sad because I can't fly this in Hyperspace. 

Very sad.

Vader and Maarek have to find new friends.

Edited by stootchmaster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/12/2020 at 10:34 AM, TK 421 said:

Unfortunately I don't get to play as much as I'd like to, so help me a bit regarding Tie Bombers. Too expensive? Dial too restrictive? or just some better options (Like is it just better to use TAv1's)? Seems like they might be a lethal option to some lists out there?  I've not really used Empire, I'm in R&D mode right now. :)

Bombers have a nice dial for what they are. Their chassis ability gives them edge all other device users can drool over. Equipping them with Bombadier is interesting, but not necessary. Prox Mines are pretty easy to drop on people's heads and provide a reasonable damage output. You can run them alongside whatever you want or just a big mess of them. They represent a threat that is difficult to one-hit, except maybe for Fenn Rau.

Having Sloane present on the board makes them interesting, at least. You do have to fly smartly because Bombers are pretty slow with pretty "meh" repositioning. 

I love bombers since 1.0. I like Strikers better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/12/2020 at 7:08 PM, NakedDex said:

Like I said, I love TIE Bombers, but I'm just saying a lot of what they can do is covered by other ships too, often more effectively in the current metas.

I came in 2nd at a Store Championship with 4 Tie Bombers in 1.0....back before they had their "fixes".  I think it can be done and it's all the more viable in 2.0.   

I don't like to ever say you shouldn't use x ship because y does it better.  That's not really a good argument.  How a Hyena works has no real impact on how a Tie Bomber works.  If a Tie Bomber works for you, it works.   To me, though, I don't have any experience with the latest tournament meta and can't really talk to it, but I am sure that if someone really grooves on a Tie Bomber list, they can find a way to make it work.  It might take some radical thinking and practice (away from those going to be at the event).   One thing about practicing with your local players is they learn how to adjust to your list.   When you then go to an event, if who you are playing against ISN'T used to your list, you can clean up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...