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[Platinum_V 109]

3 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

Perhaps it is a faction-specific generic command card like the GCW factions got with their Specialist Expansions?

 

As far as we know, yes

 

The thing with the ARCs is they give the Republic a huge amount of options they don't currently have. The Jump packs give them some mobility they are currently lacking, on a 2-courage unit. You could potentially run 3x 2-man strike teams and Rex with Jump for objective grabbing, or even run full 5-man squads with the generic sniper and Jump.  The fact that ARC's inherently have Scout 2 and can take Recon Intel gives them even more options.

I was going to go double-check some info on the card spread on the Asmodee webstore but they took the card spread off all 4 new unit pages.

 

[NeonWolf 942]

5 hours ago, NeverTellMeTheOdds said:

Can you spend multiple aim tokens to trigger lethal more than once? 

 

13 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

As far as we know, yes

 

7 minutes ago, Platinum_V said:

 

Looks like I stand corrected. Fairly certain that Lethal says "While attacking spend up to 1 aim token to gain Pierce: 1"

[R3dReVenge 441]

45 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Why 100 points? I'd honestly consider running a squad with just a Jetpacks for 82 as a flanker. It's got decent damage output without the heavy weapon option in my opinion (4b 4w at 1-2). I've had good luck with Fleets throwing worse dice with worse maneuverability, survivability, keywords, etc etc. 

This is predicated on Ascension cables not providing some bonkers movement benefit for cheaper (albeit only once per game in practice most of the time).

Edit: Maybe 87 for adding in a Frag grenades to give surge->crit at range 1...

ARCS: 82 points for 4 B 4 W 4 wounds and 1-2 range.

P1s Z6 77 points for 4 B 6 W 5 wounds and 1-3 range.

 

Something to think about. I'll have my ARC concern thread up later tonight. 

Edited February 13 by R3dReVenge

[arnoldrew 1,713]

3 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

ARCS: 82 points for 4 B 4 W 4 wounds and 1-2 range.

P1s Z6 77 points for 4 B 6 W 5 wounds and 1-3 range.

 

Something to think about. I'll have my ARC concern thread up later tonight. 

Very simply, units are more than DPS.

[NeonWolf 942]

18 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

I was going to go double-check some info on the card spread on the Asmodee webstore but they took the card spread off all 4 new unit pages.

 

13 minutes ago, Platinum_V said:

 

With the handy image provided by @Platinum_V I can expound further!

The ARCs give the Republic the option of running all Courage 2 units as well. Phase II's and ARCs both have it so you could run a 10 activation Clone list with Rex, 6x P2's and 3x ARC Strike Teams with points left over for upgrades, R2 and/or Padme.

I think within 6 months we are going to see a huge difference in Republic lists than what we have today, all because of this one expansion.

[Kirjath08 185]

3 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Very simply, units are more than DPS.

Yeah. Those 5 points seemingly get you Tactical 1, Sharpshooter 1, Scout 2, Impervious, extra courage, etc...

Edited February 13 by Kirjath08

[Platinum_V 109]

2 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

 

 

Looks like I stand corrected. Fairly certain that Lethal says "While attacking spend up to 1 aim token to gain Pierce: 1"

But if you Fire Supported a second DC-15X to gain Lethal 2 I think you can then spend up to 2 aim tokens to gain Pierce 2

[thepopemobile100 977]

Just now, Platinum_V said:

But if you Fire Supported a second DC-15X to gain Lethal 2 I think you can then spend up to 2 aim tokens to gain Pierce 2

ARCs don't have Fire Support

[NeonWolf 942]

1 minute ago, Platinum_V said:

But if you Fire Supported a second DC-15X to gain Lethal 2 I think you can then spend up to 2 aim tokens to gain Pierce 2

ARC troopers don't have Fire Support so don't think this would work

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

5 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

ARCS: 82 points for 4 B 4 W 4 wounds and 1-2 range.

P1s Z6 77 points for 4 B 6 W 5 wounds and 1-3 range.

Something to think about. I'll have my ARC concern thread up later tonight. 

ARCS with Jumpacks: 82 points for 4 B 4 W 4 wounds and 1-2 range, 4B at 1-3 range,   4B 4W in melee, Scout 2, Sharpshooter 1, Tactical 1, Courage 2,  Jump 2

P1s with Z6:  77 points for 4 B 6 W 5 wounds and 1-3 range, 5B in melee, and Fire Support. Significantly less maneuverable, less survivable, worse action economy (have to move or aim, not both), worse courage, and doesn't reduce cover.

Just now, thepopemobile100 said:

ARCs don't have Fire Support

If Echo has the same weapon with the same keywords, he can be taken in a unit that DOES have Fire Support though. 

[Platinum_V 109]

Just now, NeonWolf said:

ARC troopers don't have Fire Support so don't think this would work

 

1 minute ago, thepopemobile100 said:

ARCs don't have Fire Support

While this is true, Echo has the DC-15x and can go into a squad that can, so I'm more operating off the assumption he keeps the keyword with this theory 

[R3dReVenge 441]

26 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

It is most certainly two dice. Notice the difference between the top of the melee dice diamond and the top border, and compare that to the distance between the covered range portion. There is about two times the amount of gap on the left side as compared to the right.

Good god. Now, I'm even more excited for them. 3 boxes of Droid commandos?!? I'm curious to see who balanced them and who balanced the ARC troopers.

24 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

The thing with the ARCs is they give the Republic a huge amount of options they don't currently have. The Jump packs give them some mobility they are currently lacking, on a 2-courage unit. You could potentially run 3x 2-man strike teams and Rex with Jump for objective grabbing, or even run full 5-man squads with the generic sniper and Jump.  The fact that ARC's inherently have Scout 2 and can take Recon Intel gives them even more options.

I was going to go double-check some info on the card spread on the Asmodee webstore but they took the card spread off all 4 new unit pages.

Mobility is important, but one of the greatest strengths of the republic is being coherent with one another to share green tokens. Or to maximize Obi's Command cards. Using an ARC trooper unit as a flanker to move ahead of your force, removes these bonuses from them. 

My gripe with them is their DPS is unimpressive. It's essentially the same as your standard squads and you pay a huge price for the extra "goodies". And these "goodies" don't seem necessary (I'm always about min/maxing). 

I want to focus on the squad itself (I will mention this in my followup thread). Strike teams will get play because they help pad GAR activation. I'm not worried about them, though I feel Droid Commandos are the best sniper in the game (I'll go into this later). 

 

You mention a 5 man squad with the DC-15x and jump pacts. That costs 113 points WOW!

A 5 man squad of P1s with the DC-15 costs 82 points with a better dice pool.

 

Recon Intel on ARCS could be pretty sweet. 

[Lochlan 1,034]

56 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

It's got decent damage output without the heavy weapon option in my opinion (4b 4w at 1-2). I've had good luck with Fleets throwing worse dice with worse maneuverability, survivability, keywords, etc etc.

Technically BW no surge is equal to WW surge hit. But with surge tokens being a thing and clones being clones, ARCs will most likely usually have a small advantage in damage output (not including heavy weapons or keywords). 

[R3dReVenge 441]

14 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Very simply, units are more than DPS.

Oh I know someone would mention this, but something players need to consider is this: "Do I really need X".

Do I really need my P1 squad to have Jump, Sharpshooter, +1 courage, a Scout move, Impervious, and Tactical 1 for 31 points?

 

I'm not saying ARCs are overcosted, I'm saying, P1s work great right now, why do I need to pay more for abilities I don't need to solve problems I don't have?

[R3dReVenge 441]

15 minutes ago, Kirjath08 said:

Yeah. Those 5 points seemingly get you Tactical 1, Sharpshooter 1, Scout 2, Impervious, extra courage, etc...

It's much more than 5 points. Try 30.

6 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

ARCS with Jumpacks: 82 points for 4 B 4 W 4 wounds and 1-2 range, 4B at 1-3 range,   4B 4W in melee, Scout 2, Sharpshooter 1, Tactical 1, Courage 2,  Jump 2

P1s with Z6:  77 points for 4 B 6 W 5 wounds and 1-3 range, 5B in melee, and Fire Support. Significantly less maneuverable, less survivable, worse action economy (have to move or aim, not both), worse courage, and doesn't reduce cover.

If Echo has the same weapon with the same keywords, he can be taken in a unit that DOES have Fire Support though. 

How are P1s less survivable? How relevant is impervious? I won't quote this much because I discuss this in my other quote above. 

[RyantheFett 532]

I will be interested to see if they succeed in making special forces work beyond strike teams. I do not play GAR so I got no idea there, but CIS seems like they may be viable?

Running 3 units with swords seems at least fun and at 222 points (12 more with tenacity).  Could be wrong, but with red defense dice they could be what wookies (237 for 3 with tenacity) should have been. I mean wookies can work, but man that unit is a glass cannon that will just melt to a stiff breeze.

 

As for the shield I can easily see one in a list. I mean behind heavy cover, scout 3, red defense dice, and shield 2 should be a pain to remove from any objective?

 

[NeonWolf 942]

1 minute ago, R3dReVenge said:

Oh I know someone would mention this, but something players need to consider is this: "Do I really need X".

Do I really need my P1 squad to have Jump, Sharpshooter, +1 courage, a Scout move, Impervious, and Tactical 1 for 31 points?

 

I'm not saying ARCs are overcosted, I'm saying, P1s work great right now, why do I need to pay more for abilities I don't need to solve problems I don't have?

I agree that some people (usually me) like to load up units with unnecessary upgrades so I can't argue with you on that.

I disagree that P1s work great as-is. They have issues with suppression that P2s and ARCs are less likely to have due to the increased Courage. I fully expect to see full ARC squads about as often as we see full Commando/Scout squads now.

[thepopemobile100 977]

1 minute ago, RyantheFett said:

but CIS seems like they may be viable?

They definitely seem to be. Both of the unique gear options are really strong, their keywords are strong, their attack is minimum black with surge. They're an extremely flexible unit from what we've seen so far which is something the Droids just don't have.

3 minutes ago, NeonWolf said:

I fully expect to see full ARC squads about as often as we see full Commando/Scout squads now.

I agree. Having two of the three heavy options able to go on corp is going to be a deterrent for loading up full ARC squads. Maybe Fives and Echo become cheaper when thrown on an ARC squad like with the jetpack on Rex?

[R3dReVenge 441]

1 minute ago, NeonWolf said:

I agree that some people (usually me) like to load up units with unnecessary upgrades so I can't argue with you on that.

I disagree that P1s work great as-is. They have issues with suppression that P2s and ARCs are less likely to have due to the increased Courage. I fully expect to see full ARC squads about as often as we see full Commando/Scout squads now.

I'm guilty of this too. It's awesome and thematic to put all the upgrades on your elite ARC squad. I want this to be viable, but naturally I look at things like this:

What problem do I have when playing GAR? How can I solve this problem?

I don't think ARC squads solve any problems that I'm currently having, but who knows. They might create new tactics that I or you haven't thought of yet.

 

 

[Kirjath08 185]

6 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

It's much more than 5 points. Try 30.

Your example was a P1 with a Z6, so that's 77 points. ARCs with a jetpack are 82. Without the Z6, yes, it's closer to a 30 point difference, but that wasn't the example you were using.

[R3dReVenge 441]

Just now, Kirjath08 said:

Your example was a P1 with a Z6, so that's 77 points. ARCs with a jetpack are 82. Without the Z6, yes, it's closer to a 30 point difference, but that wasn't the example you were using.

You didn't utilize the quote option, so I thought you were referring to a different comparison. 

The extra range goes a long way in that example. Think of it like this: Why do I want to be 12" away to shoot a worst dice pool (4B 4W) when I can shoot a better dice pool 4B 6W at a further range (18").

[Caimheul1313 2,990]

2 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Mobility is important, but one of the greatest strengths of the republic is being coherent with one another to share green tokens. Or to maximize Obi's Command cards. Using an ARC trooper unit as a flanker to move ahead of your force, removes these bonuses from them. 

Recon Intel on ARCS could be pretty sweet. 

ARCs in an army with Rex with Recon intel to bring two Corps units along lets you start with a significant portion of your army on the way to objectives and out of your deployment. I'll probably run them with Rex + Padme, so Obi-wan is irrelevant to me. Flankers don't have to move ahead, they can just be on the edges of your army. 

 

Just now, R3dReVenge said:

Oh I know someone would mention this, but something players need to consider is this: "Do I really need X".

Do I really need my P1 squad to have Jump, Sharpshooter, +1 courage, a Scout move, Impervious, and Tactical 1 for 31 points?

 

I'm not saying ARCs are overcosted, I'm saying, P1s work great right now, why do I need to pay more for abilities I don't need to solve problems I don't have?

Just now, R3dReVenge said:

It's much more than 5 points. Try 30.

How are P1s less survivable? How relevant is impervious? I won't quote this much because I discuss this in my other quote above. 

77-82 = 5... you were comparing a 77 point unit to an 82 point unit, so it's a difference of 5 points. Unless you plan to run naked P1s to try and do the same job as the ARCs. 

These are problem I do have though. I frequently face units with Pierce, Impervious is a nice boost to survivability, especially against lightsabers. 

Tactical 1 is free green tokens. 

Jump gives me the ability to keep more units together since the units on the flanks of my army don't have to worry about terrain to stay together with the corps units.

Scout 2 means I get even more units out of my deployment zone, alongside Rex + friends. +1 courage means I don't have to worry about the first attack suppressing the unit.

Sharpshooter is great for degrading cover, which makes the ARCs a good unit to trigger Fire Support.

[RyantheFett 532]

10 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

What problem do I have when playing GAR? How can I solve this problem?

I don't think ARC squads solve any problems that I'm currently having, but who knows. They might create new tactics that I or you haven't thought of yet.

If I had to give a negative take (but still positive in a way) on ARC troopers it would be that a lot of their unique features can be passed off to other units?? Rex can get the jetpack while Echo and Fives can be tossed out to both P1s & P2s. So it may just end up with ARCs being taken for just the sniper teams cheap activation while the other units get the cool features from the pack???

.........................Or not I am really just throwing stuff against the wall lol. Do not really play GAR, but I do know both new factions are hurting for space when it comes to list building????

Edited February 13 by RyantheFett
grammar

[Lochlan 1,034]

Full ARCs with the DC-15X are very comparable to Death Troopers with the DLT-19D. With no other upgrades, the ARCs are a bit cheaper (103 vs 110), but average slightly fewer hits at range 2 or 3 (assuming no aim tokens). ARCs average more crits thanks to Critical 1 and will usually have Pierce 1 thanks to Lethal 1 and Tactical 1, and also have Sharpshooter 1. They can also shoot out to range 5. DTs can fire their whole pool at range 4, but that requires making them more expensive. DTs are also natively tougher, but ARCs have Impervious, access to token sharing, and can benefit from surge tokens. 

Conclusion: DTs are popular and effective, and I believe that full ARCs could be as well. However, I feel that the strike teams providing an effective, cheaper activation is something GAR is in desperate need of and will edge them out for the time being. 

[Weikel 68]

5 hours ago, bwingstrike said:

The image of the back of their boxes says there's only 3 command cards, so not sure what the extra card is?

I think they're just showing the back of one of the three command cards. Just as they're showing the back of each unit card.

Padme having a command upgrade slot is a nice touch. She can run Strict Orders while Kenobi or Rex runs Aggressive Tactics. Or Esteemed Leader if you want to make that Secret Mission more likely.