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Cgriffith

Losing interest: Hyperspace is stale, and I’m uninterested

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This is the last I’m going to say about this, because it really does seem like minds are made up.

There are leagues, there are tournaments, there are all sorts of competitive formats.  However, what really helps to re-energize me at the times I’m feeling bleh about whatever in X-Wing is this:

X-Wing is at its absolute best when you plop down some plastic ships opposite a friend, crack open your beverage of choice, and kill a few hours making pew pew noises.  The more people lose sight of that, the more a break makes senses.

For the life of me I can’t remember who said it first back in the day, but don’t forget:

The objective of the game is to win.  The point of the game is to have fun.

If it isn’t fun, and you aren’t in a place to recapture that fun, then there’s only really one thing to do.

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1 hour ago, Stay OT Leader said:

Wait, so it’s everyone else’s responsibility to change their ways so that one person doesn’t have to change at all because they’re throwing a hissy fit?

No, and I don't believe anyone said that.  And suggesting someone disillusioned with the current state of of the game is "throwing a hissy fit" is both insulting and ignorant.

And hypocritical, since - as we know from your blog -  you've never been above throwing a strop about "the state of the game" yourself when it suits you.

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@CgriffithI don't understand why you can't fly Vader now. He's still viable with just FCS, and now he can be run with a swarm, or RAC + a TIE. I understand not wanting to fly him with Strikers or (ick) Reapers. What do you want to fly him with? What did you fly before?

As for Anakin, only one of his three chassis have gone away. N-1 may not fit the bill for you as high Init force bruisers seem to be your style. The Ani in a Y-Wing can put out a bruising. He functions like a small base I6 Rey (stress agnostic, punches hard, low agility, force, turreted). What have you tried running on him/with him?

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22 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

@CgriffithI don't understand why you can't fly Vader now. He's still viable with just FCS, and now he can be run with a swarm, or RAC + a TIE. I understand not wanting to fly him with Strikers or (ick) Reapers. What do you want to fly him with? What did you fly before?

As for Anakin, only one of his three chassis have gone away. N-1 may not fit the bill for you as high Init force bruisers seem to be your style. The Ani in a Y-Wing can put out a bruising. He functions like a small base I6 Rey (stress agnostic, punches hard, low agility, force, turreted). What have you tried running on him/with him?

Ani in the N-1 isn't just a fun meme ship, he's really very good against Low I ships, and there are a lot of them in Hyperspace.

I'm kinda liking the feel of hyperspace at the moment, despite the restrictions there does seem to variety to lists as folks look for the edge on similar archetypes. I do have a concern that it'll start to get stale in a couple of months but that is true of pretty much every meta so far.

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22 minutes ago, tampermagnitude said:

Ani in the N-1 isn't just a fun meme ship, he's really very good against Low I ships, and there are a lot of them in Hyperspace.

I agree that lil' Ani is a real threat, but OP doesn't care for him for whatever reasons, so I lef thim out. Marcel's Intimidation Passive Adv Torp Ani is a build that I like.

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15 hours ago, Hoffburger said:

 

I really want to play certain lists that aren't playable in Hyperspace. In a competitive meta everyone wants to practice for what format tournaments will be held in. Unfortunately FFG has decided that Hyperspace is going to be the most common, which means competitive players will mostly want to practice that format. Multiple competitive formats sounds like a great idea in theory, but it unfortunately fractures the community. This is fine if you have a ton of people showing up weekly to play because you can likely find people who will want to play extended, but if you have a small community who want to practice for the tournaments that they drive an hour or two to attend (like the NOVA area), then the extra formats don't work.

...added with this:

14 hours ago, Captain Mayhem said:

Totally agree. Last Friday, My LGS has "Open" Play. the lead on the Facebook page stated that it was Extended, Hyper, Epic, whatever.  I Haven't played in 3 months, and made an Extended list  and a Hyperspace list which I just made for fun. Everyone there. (9) only played HS. I played my HS list which I was totally unfamiliar with. Needless to say, it was a NPE for me. 

The easy solution would be to not play Hyperspace, but often the tournament scene is driving the game.  That means you are playing a certain way or you are not playing at all.   I found that highly frustrating back when there was only the tournament way in 1st Ed.  

To me, the real problem isn't that Hyperspace changed, but that it is the only way some people play the game.    It's a shame there aren't other people or another store that you can go to and get your game on.  I do feel your pain.

 

13 hours ago, Stay OT Leader said:


As @FatherTurin has tried to say to you: the only person making you unhappy is yourself.  The only person who can fix it is yourself.  You need to mend your attitude or walk away, for the good of both yourself and those around you.

So, I want to push back on this idea.  OP was happy playing the game, but FFG changes how the game is played and everyone at his LGS is obsessed with tournaments and only wants to play the new way.  The change was external to him and did not come from him.   So, I hate when people say something like "the only person making you unhappy is yourself".

I do agree, though, that the only person that can make him happy is himself.  I agree with @FatherTurin in that OP needs to either change what he flies, find a different group to play non-hyperspace, or not play X-wing.  I just hate the bit about how the issues is coming from him to begin with. 

 

17 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Technically four formats, if you include Aces High which sounds like a blast.

However, it takes two to tango, and if you're group is playing naught but Hyperspace for list testing / practice pursposes, then what do you do then?

Sorry, but Aces High is part of "Epic" now, which is really short for Epic Battles.   The old Epic (where everyone had 500 pts and had to have at least one Huge ship) is no longer a valid format.  Epic now means one of the 11 scenarios from Epic Battles that may or may not include Huge ships.  Personally, I have been loving the new Epic more than the last, with or without Huge ships.

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1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

No, and I don't believe anyone said that.  And suggesting someone disillusioned with the current state of of the game is "throwing a hissy fit" is both insulting and ignorant.

And hypocritical, since - as we know from your blog -  you've never been above throwing a strop about "the state of the game" yourself when it suits you.

And the value of my experiences is worth what?

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16 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Heh.  Try being an Epic enthusiast.  There is no way in **** I'm ever going to find a FLGS that supports me weekly.

Where I go, they haven't even tried out the Environments cards because everyone always has an eye towards competition, even when it's casual.  And yes, everyone has gravitated towards Hyperspace, but to me that's just another version of 200/6 so it's hardly a driving factor for my (spotty) attendance.

Having this game be 200/6 tournament-driven has always affected some members of the game's community; the main difference is that Hyperspace now drives a wedge into the 200/6ers as well.

I have to say I saw this after I posted above.   I actually find it really insightful.   I remember when the tournament game (was 100/6 then) really split the scene, but now the hyperspace changes are splitting the 200/6-ers in about the same way.  

I'm more wondering if I can find someone to play hyerspace with as my crowd usually avoids the tournament scene.  I might want to try it to see how it goes.  

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It does take time to get out of the faction-locked and pilot-locked mindset, I think that's something that's essential in 2.0 particularly. 

I used to only fly Resistance, then I went to Imperial aces and now I'm back with 5 A Wings and experimenting with First Order. 

I get that you might be put off by the changes, my list (Vade, Soontir, Inquisitor) was completely removed and I was down for a while. In fact I almost gave up my System Open ticket.

But it's better to learn to enjoy the challenge of new problems to solve. I don't really list build that much anyway, so I usually pick something someone else has suggested. In the end I took a relatively new list and still felt competitive. 

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7 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Sorry, but Aces High is part of "Epic" now, which is really short for Epic Battles.   The old Epic (where everyone had 500 pts and had to have at least one Huge ship) is no longer a valid format.  Epic now means one of the 11 scenarios from Epic Battles that may or may not include Huge ships.  Personally, I have been loving the new Epic more than the last, with or without Huge ships.

I was not aware of this.  I was only aware of Aces High from it being talked about at Worlds.  I gather there weren't any Aces High pods at the UK Open either (or very few and far between), which is a shame as the people who'd played it had plenty of good things to say about the format.

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1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

I was not aware of this.  I was only aware of Aces High from it being talked about at Worlds.  I gather there weren't any Aces High pods at the UK Open either (or very few and far between), which is a shame as the people who'd played it had plenty of good things to say about the format.

It is a really interesting format and I enjoy it.   The whole bounty system is a nice fix to kind of stop one person running away with it.   Each kill gets you a bounty token.  If you are killed, the killer gets extra points for each bounty you have.   This means that if someone has a few kills, the last place person can finish you off and win the whole thing in one go.  It forces the person in the lead to become the target and be more defensive minded.  I'm rather impressed by it.

As for the rest of Epic Battles, I really enjoy the various scenarios (they aren't really missions).  There are a number of different formats to try things out.  1 vs 1 players and even 2 vs 1 games.  There are a lot with high points, but the victory conditions aren't "win at all costs" and the games don't have to take forever to finish (as long as everyone is familiar with any huge ship rules or rules for the scenario).  There are a few 300 pt games that I find really interesting.  Most of them need to have you play a little defensive and a little offensive in the same game and you get an extra 100 pts.  It allows you to really try different stuff, but building up a few big ships is probably not a good idea.   Also, the objectives give points, but just killing people also gives points.  It's a nice balance to worry about the objectives, but not have "suicide syndrome" where you try to meet the objective at the cost of your entire list (like Battle of Yavin).  The Wings rules also helps make the ship management a lot easier so you aren't picking a hundred different dials.  I've seen 500 pt games with only 3-4 dials on the table.  

If anyone is reading this thread as they don't like hyperspace and are wanting to try something different, I highly encourage checking out Epic Battles.  It's only $25, which is a decent price to try something with friends.

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14 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

I was not aware of this.  I was only aware of Aces High from it being talked about at Worlds.  I gather there weren't any Aces High pods at the UK Open either (or very few and far between), which is a shame as the people who'd played it had plenty of good things to say about the format.

Well, to the best of my knowledge, at least 13 Aces High pods fired on the Sunday, based on the announcements I heard in the hall.

More might have fired on Saturday (side events started after round 3), but I wasn't paying attention to that. Sunday also saw a lot of people leave quickly if they lost a match in the Worlds Qualifier, due to the storms causing travel issues, so more might have fired had there been no disruption.

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@Cgriffith - I get it.  If both Poe and Rey find themselves out of Hyperspace rotation and/or I felt they weren't competitively viable, I'm not sure what I'd do, how much I'd play.  If you can't make Vader work in a manner you enjoy, then it's probably best to take a break.  Let X-Wing kind of wash off you for a few weeks or more and see if the urge to play is still there. 

It's also probably best to stay away from the forums...it won't make you feel any better.

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2 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

This is the last I’m going to say about this, because it really does seem like minds are made up.

There are leagues, there are tournaments, there are all sorts of competitive formats.  However, what really helps to re-energize me at the times I’m feeling bleh about whatever in X-Wing is this:

X-Wing is at its absolute best when you plop down some plastic ships opposite a friend, crack open your beverage of choice, and kill a few hours making pew pew noises.  The more people lose sight of that, the more a break makes senses.

For the life of me I can’t remember who said it first back in the day, but don’t forget:

The objective of the game is to win.  The point of the game is to have fun.

If it isn’t fun, and you aren’t in a place to recapture that fun, then there’s only really one thing to do.

This comment is pretty much the mic drop on this entire thread. Well said. 

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1 hour ago, AceDogbert said:

Well, to the best of my knowledge, at least 13 Aces High pods fired on the Sunday, based on the announcements I heard in the hall.

More might have fired on Saturday (side events started after round 3), but I wasn't paying attention to that. Sunday also saw a lot of people leave quickly if they lost a match in the Worlds Qualifier, due to the storms causing travel issues, so more might have fired had there been no disruption.

There were lots of Aces matches going on on Sunday. Unofficial ones as well, with all sorts of house rules applied.

I played in 4 if them myself.

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1 hour ago, gennataos said:

@Cgriffith - I get it.  If both Poe and Rey find themselves out of Hyperspace rotation and/or I felt they weren't competitively viable, I'm not sure what I'd do, how much I'd play.  If you can't make Vader work in a manner you enjoy, then it's probably best to take a break.  Let X-Wing kind of wash off you for a few weeks or more and see if the urge to play is still there. 

It's also probably best to stay away from the forums...it won't make you feel any better.

I took about a 3-4 month break after System Open 2019, I was completely sick of it. Worked out really well in the end, I just wasn't having fun.

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4 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

plenty of good things to say about the format.

Ace High the scenario our group really tried to like it but it was simply awful.  Waste of a gaming night, never to be played again!

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2 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Ace High the scenario our group really tried to like it but it was simply awful.  Waste of a gaming night, never to be played again!

Could you elaborate? I've never heard this opinion. What exactly wasn't liked?

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17 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

Could you elaborate? I've never heard this opinion. What exactly wasn't liked?

We were shocked after the hype in the forums.  Seemed to take longer to set up than play (we played three games with different ships and getting together cards for one ship took longer than playing), generally we were bored and irritated, and the coarse rules didn’t help (at one point after the second win within 10 mins we spent a good 20 mins discussing whether we were playing it right).  Honestly flying against  triple Jumpmasters in first edition is the only worse X-Wing experience I can think of.  We decided this was meant to be a filler game at large tournaments and nothing to do with real X-Wing aka Epic.  It doesn’t belong in the Epic format of flying wings and huge ship and tactics.  Still many think it’s the chosen one, it’s just not for us.

Please no-one waste their breath on convincing me otherwise.  My group hates it.  It is sand.  With thanks.  May the Force be with you ✌️ 

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For those other than @Sasajak that want advice on how to make your first time playing Aces High work:

  • Reading the rules ahead of time (at least one person) can help ensure you aren't dickering about it while playing.   I think there is a thread in the Epic sub forum that has people asking about the rules.  It just takes one person to be familiar with it.  
  • For your first game, try playing at the lowest points level.  Everyone always wants to go with the high point aces, but for your very first time, try it with the cheap ships for less complication.  You can go through the game quicker and learn the ropes of it faster.  
  • If you are worried about it taking time to pick out ships to use, you can always use Quick Build points.
  • If you want people to be even more prepared, tell them in advance so that they might be able to select their various upgrade cards ahead of time.   If they did this, you could avoid QB points.  

 

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57 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Ace High the scenario our group really tried to like it but it was simply awful.  Waste of a gaming night, never to be played again!

21 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

 Honestly flying against  triple Jumpmasters in first edition is the only worse X-Wing experience I can think of.

This is literally the first time I have ever heard of anyone not enjoying aces high

 

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