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sasska

Ignation attack scenario question

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Hi all! 

Today I payed my first game against an Onager and I have a question about LoS on ignation attack. My opponent wanted to shoot my Assault Frigate's front arc. He had LoS from his ignation token, but not from his ship, since the LoS line crossed the port side arc border. Could he make the attack to my ships front zone or not, is the question. See the picture below for better understanding. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Sk5f74Mf7Qqs5uUfKJu29MigWy7hBAJC/view?usp=drivesdk

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No. The Onager cannot shoot the front of the Assault Frigate.

The easiest way to think of ignition attacks is that they do everything as normal - arc, line of sight, range, obstruction all from the ship. The big difference from normal is that when you come to pick up your dice, rather than picking them up based on the attack range, you choose them based on the range from the token to the defending ship's cardboard.

To be clear, range is still measured from ship to ship. The token only affects which dice can be included in the attack.

The other differences are that you must make an ignition attack if you can, it has to be your first attack, it uses the special firing arcs and special battery, and you can't perform a Salvo attack against an ignition attack (you can still spend the token while defending, it just doesn't do anything).

Edited by Grumbleduke

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To be clear, range is still measured from ship to ship. The token only affects which dice can be included in the attack.

 

This is incorrect. Range is measured from the ignition token for an ignition attack. LoS and arc are measured from the ship. Using the ignition weapon determines which dice are placed in the attack pool using the range ruler as normal with it's start point touching the ignition token. This is the concept of extreme range.

 

Edited by Englishpete

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6 minutes ago, Englishpete said:

This is incorrect. Range is measured from the ignition token for an ignition attack. LoS and arc are measured from the ship. Using the ignition weapon determines which dice are placed in the attack pool using the range ruler as normal with it's start point touching the ignition token. This is the concept of extreme range.

Range is measured from ship to ship. It specifically states this in the rule booklet. 
 

“While performing an IGNITION attack, firing arc, range, and line of sight are measured from the attacker’s ship token as normal...”

This is what allows for there to be an extreme range. If the range was measured from the token, then there is either the regular ranges or out of range, just like before the Onager release. Now, however, you can be out of range of the attacking ship, but still gather dice based on the ignition token. This is extreme range. Or as the rule booklet states:

”Extreme range is any range greater than the length of the range ruler.”

That all said, dice are gathered based on the range measured from the token, but this is not the range for the attack. 

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The ignition token has two effects.

  1. it forces you to perform an Ignition attack as your first attack, if you can,
  2. when forming the initial attack pool for an Ignition attack, you select dice based on the range from the token to the closest point of the defending ship's cardboard.

Everything else works the same as normal, including range (which matters for Defense Tokens and things like Targeting Scramblers). Hence the need to define extreme range as being any range beyond long range, as Ignition attacks can hit targets beyond long range.

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To add on, range for evade tokens is still based on the range from ship to ship like Grumleduke mentioned, but at extreme range (Meaning they're more that the long range ruler away) the evade token can cancel 2 dice instead of the standard 1. 

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On 2/10/2020 at 1:29 PM, Astrodar said:

“While performing an IGNITION attack, firing arc, range, and line of sight are measured from the attacker’s ship token as normal

That's the part of the booklet which caused the problem. "The attacker’s ship token" we, assumed that is the ignation token. I guess ship token means the rectangular card board, which represents the ship itself. Thank you all! 

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1 hour ago, sasska said:

That's the part of the booklet which caused the problem. "The attacker’s ship token" we, assumed that is the ignation token. I guess ship token means the rectangular card board, which represents the ship itself. Thank you all! 

That is indeed defined as part of the Ship in the RRG :)

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On 2/9/2020 at 1:23 PM, Englishpete said:

You measure LoS and arc from the ship. You measure range from the ignition token.

As the others pointed out, LoS, arc, and range are all ship to ship. The distance from the ignition token to ANY PART of the target only tells you which dice to gather. So your Onager Testbed, which has Blacks and Reds in its pool, places an ignition token out at long range (because it has the superweapon upgrade that gives it Ignition (Long)). Then, at the end of the turn, an enemy CR90 slips into the special arc, between the Onager and the ignition token. At the top of the next turn, the Onager activates, and you have the opportunity to blast the CR90. The CR90 is at Close range to the Onager, and you have clear LoS from the Onager to the Corvette’s front arc. So your attack is happening at close range, meaning the Corvette’s Evades will be useless. Now you have to find out which dice you can roll. So you measure from the Ignition token to the closest part of the Corvette, and it comes up as Medium range. You then gather your dice. Your superweapon only gets reds, because the ignition token isn’t close enough for blacks. But the attack itself is still a (ship-to-ship) close range attack. 

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On 2/10/2020 at 4:24 PM, SirToastsalot said:

To add on, range for evade tokens is still based on the range from ship to ship like Grumleduke mentioned, but at extreme range (Meaning they're more that the long range ruler away) the evade token can cancel 2 dice instead of the standard 1. 

Sorry, but I can't find where is it, Can You tell the right wording/mechanics for this?

Thanks!!

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