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Yoritomo Iashi

Support of <clan> Roles Question

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Hey all! I was wondering what people would think if FFG made it so that if you were Support of Phoenix, you could use Tadaka 2 in your non-crab/phoenix deck. 

This would make the support of roles more interesting to use, and add some opportunities for more deck options in the future.

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It was dumb in the original game when you could just start including any clans from outside your chosen clan in your deck. Defeats the whole purpose of having a clan identity in the first place. Adding a third clan just goes right back to people demanding they can use whatever cards they want in decks.

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@Hyperjayman

1) Clan discount. Later out-of-clan tax. Honor requirements. Loyal. 

2) In reality there were few impactful personalities in every edition that people sometimes included in their decks. Ther're many ways to rationalize this. Same in RPG - nearly every group is made of samurais of various clan. If you want to pay and risk your resources to hire/bribe/convince someone of other clan - go ahead. The ends justify the means. 

3) And isn't also dumb for you that in LCG you can "borrow" out-of-theme Conflict Characters from other Clans, lol. 

Edited by kempy

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I would like to see some ways to have little a dynasty splash, as a treat. Maybe the coat of the card equals it's influence cost, for example? Just curious what happens if we do that! 

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On 2/21/2020 at 6:44 PM, JJ48 said:

Maybe make specific Dynasty characters who are clan-specific, but can join certain other clans for some cost, or perhaps dual-clan characters?

Dual clan character is very rare, I only remember 2 in old5R Yasuki Hachi and Doji/Hitomi Reju.

What this game needs are neutral cards. And a good playtest.

About support of clans I suggest make a possible addition to keeper/seeker role (an add-on) and count for story choices

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4 hours ago, Daigotsu Arashi said:

Dual clan character is very rare, I only remember 2 in old5R Yasuki Hachi and Doji/Hitomi Reju.

What this game needs are neutral cards. And a good playtest.

About support of clans I suggest make a possible addition to keeper/seeker role (an add-on) and count for story choices

Well there were a bunch of Hitomi who started in other clans.  However there were a number of other instances where it happened.  Doji Chomei was both Crane and Yoritomo's Alliance (although they weren't a great clan at the time so its not exactly the same) and there were plenty of characters who were both Toturi's Army and part of another faction.  Later in the timeline we also had a series of Spider Infiltrators in various families.  

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14 hours ago, RafaelNN said:

I would rather see the mechabics we already have be more developed and exploited before seeing new things come up.

Dual characters won't take anything away from other mechanics being developed. I think it could even have the oposidte effect if for example Hurricane Punch would have been Dragon/Phoenix.

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6 hours ago, Ignithas said:

Dual characters won't take anything away from other mechanics being developed. I think it could even have the oposidte effect if for example Hurricane Punch would have been Dragon/Phoenix.

Nothing stops Phoenix from using it except their horrible lack of decent Monk characters.

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On 2/28/2020 at 3:47 PM, Schmoozies said:

Nothing stops Phoenix from using it except their horrible lack of decent Monk characters.

Influence is stopping them. If you spend 6 influence for Let Go and 3 for Ancient Master, you have no influence left for Hurricane Punch, if you want to run Consumed by five Fires. Furthermore it wouldn't restrict the splash.

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8 hours ago, Ignithas said:

Influence is stopping them. If you spend 6 influence for Let Go and 3 for Ancient Master, you have no influence left for Hurricane Punch, if you want to run Consumed by five Fires. Furthermore it wouldn't restrict the splash.

But the Monk deck doesn't necessarily want to be on Five Fires.  Its likely looking to be a more aggressive deck probably trying to push a conquest agenda backed up by glory tricks.  There is a very good possibility that the deck is running a combination of Ancient Master, Hurricane Punch and Let Go with Void Fist as its restricted card and leveraging glory pumps and Storms to give big red numbers to boot bodies so could afford to be on Support .

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19 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

But the Monk deck doesn't necessarily want to be on Five Fires.  Its likely looking to be a more aggressive deck probably trying to push a conquest agenda backed up by glory tricks.  There is a very good possibility that the deck is running a combination of Ancient Master, Hurricane Punch and Let Go with Void Fist as its restricted card and leveraging glory pumps and Storms to give big red numbers to boot bodies so could afford to be on Support .

Every Phoenix deck wants to be on Five Fires, if it wants to maximise its win chance. Otherwise you can auto-fold against decks like tower lion or tower unicorn.

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8 hours ago, Ignithas said:

Every Phoenix deck wants to be on Five Fires, if it wants to maximise its win chance. Otherwise you can auto-fold against decks like tower lion or tower unicorn.

I play Keeper of Air Dishonour.  It's not the best, but it can't really be on Five Fires, for various reasons.

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1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I play Keeper of Air Dishonour.  It's not the best, but it can't really be on Five Fires, for various reasons.

Honestly with current meta Five Fires isn't enough.  Can't Kill a tower with 8 fate with it.

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15 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

Honestly with current meta Five Fires isn't enough.  Can't Kill a tower with 8 fate with it.

Then make the big brain play and play 2 Five Fires.

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19 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

Assuming you can get it past Lions Palace on a stick setting up Censure control, and have 10 fate to spare.

If your oponent spends 11+ fate on a character and you don't have 10 fate within 2 turns, you misplayed somewhere. The favor control of the tower deck isn't that strong, especially if they save to put 8 fate on a char. If they do have favor you can either risk it (because most lists play 0-1 Censures) or hope for Upholding Authority.

The matchup feels significantly favored for Phoenix.

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3 hours ago, Ignithas said:

If your oponent spends 11+ fate on a character and you don't have 10 fate within 2 turns, you misplayed somewhere. The favor control of the tower deck isn't that strong, especially if they save to put 8 fate on a char. If they do have favor you can either risk it (because most lists play 0-1 Censures) or hope for Upholding Authority.

The matchup feels significantly favored for Phoenix.

Results would beg to differ.  Lion have a 2 cost character that stands for every glory count and run Sharpens for political pump so are happy to run 3 Censures in most decks.  And you taking 2 turns to bank fate for that double fires turn means they have a tower that's running rampant in 4 conflicts in that time.

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19 hours ago, Schmoozies said:

Results would beg to differ.  Lion have a 2 cost character that stands for every glory count and run Sharpens for political pump so are happy to run 3 Censures in most decks.  And you taking 2 turns to bank fate for that double fires turn means they have a tower that's running rampant in 4 conflicts in that time.

If you look at the tower lion lists that were topping the last tournaments, you'll always find 0-1 Censures. For win percentage, there were very few matches played between Lion and Phoenix and while very prominent and strong Lion players attended the tournaments, the same can't be said about Phoenix.

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