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Pritoos

Spider-man protection

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Hello all.

 Just wanted to begin some discussion on the archetype. I have been working on the protection aspect lately, and tried to find the best hero option for it. The theme would be to protect and support teammates, clearing the path so they can work on their duties (mainly beating down the villain and everything that he can throw on us).

Aside from taking some punches on behalf of the rest of the team here and there, I also though on controlling the villain´s deck so that we don´t frequently face nasty surprises (get behind me being the main staple).

I found Spiderman to be a good option (just like many other people did) due to:

-          excellent defense.

-          good healing capability once Aunt May begins producing some cookies.

-          Theme support in backflip and enhanced spider-sense.

-          Good synergy with get behind me (you draw the extra card, and also black cat can draw it).

 

I would really like the concept work, but I find a main issue on it: reactive strategy seems to me pretty unefficient, even with Spidey.

I mean: when playing other heroes, you get your 6 cards, then you ideally play all of them (either as resources or for the effect), and then replace. That´s 12 cards.

In reactive protection decks, you get 6 cards, and then you ideally play 4-5, keeping 1-2 in your hand in order to answer to villain actions. You replace and that´s 8-10 cards.

This means every turn you get 1-2 less cards in a protection deck. In this game, that means less tactical options, but also less resources available…

True that with spider-man, you get 1 card for being attacked, but that does not compensate the unefficiency, for various reasons:

-          Usually you will draw 1 extra per turn but often will keep 2 (rather than 1) cards in hand.

-          You get that extra card in any other spider-man deck (aggression, energy…) in the same numbers (1 per turn). This means any other aspect will be more card-efficient.

-          Other heroes get the extra card for free (carol danvers does that), absolutely beating your efficiency.

On the good side, spidey makes get behind me a much better card (reducing her cost), but I wonder if that is enough.

I don´t mean playing spidey or playing protection is not recommended… but I just kinda would like to read your thoughts on this, and ways to reduce the unefficiency in this archetype. Or maybe, being able to spot the advantages of the build that compensate for it.

I do think Spidey is a very good option for a protection deck, but what I am questioning is the virtues of the protection aspect, I suppose.

Have you tried spidey prot? What are your impressions?

Edited by Pritoos

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I think holding on to the interrupt and response cards is a trap. In a vacuum you have just as much chance of seeing them after you redraw as you do of having them in hand at the start of your turn. If you just don't have a good way to spend the resource then it's fine to keep it, but otherwise don't waste cards.

Protection Spider-Man can have so many of these types of effect in his deck that you will likely see at least one every time you draw cards. I also like him because you can stay in Hero form almost the whole time and his response means that you are still drawing cards equivalent to the Alter Ego side.

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In my completely subjective opinion, Protection is, or is starting to be, better as a counter action kind of deck rather than simply "avoiding stuff" archetype, although this does indeed fit Spider-Man thematically. With Energy barrier, Counterpunch (very good on Spider-Man with 2 ATK), Preemptive Strike and Nova, for instance, you get to deal damage even when you are on the defensive. With the new cards we saw on the livestream yesterday, which allow draw and ready effects when you defend and no damage is dealt to you, Expert Defense becomes an instant go-to card and this quite solidifies the "do something when I defend" style of play. In this scenario, Get Behind Me is more interesting because you force the attack against you rather than you simply prevent someone else's, but this is a dangerous play in my view. That's why I don't play it.

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12 minutes ago, Palpster said:

Why is all of the Protection aspect being judged as inefficient based on one card? I don't even use Get Behind Me in my Spiderman Protection deck ;)

In solo, I tend to prefer Protection on Black Panther. His retaliate means that defending is still getting some of the job done.

Sure, Spider-Man can get 4 defense, but then you’re very frequently playing the waiting game. Worse, defending means you can’t typically keep up with thwarting for Spidey, he becomes reliant on just black widow to keep threat down.

Black Panther at least has a bunch of thwart potential from Wakanda forevers (10 thwart per shuffle, plus 2 if you put one back in with the 3 card reshuffle) vs 6 thwarting from Spidey trackers.

Spider-Man really needs allies (leadership) or Justice. 

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Well, very good points here. Thanks for your comments.

Also, we can consider that efficiency is unharmed by reactive permanents (allies, upgrades and supports), as you play them in the first turn and wait for the right moment to use them.  Black widow, NovaArmored Vest, energy barrier, indomitable and med team are available permanents right now. In the near future, Unflappable may become a very good adition.

Playing reactive events turn 1 would be much less efficient. It´s not only Get behind me, but also Preemtive strike, Expert defense, and Counter-punch. Also, in the case we are discussing, we add to this list both backflip and Enhanced spider-sense.

In these cases, I agree that the best would be not to keep them at all turn 1, and use them as resources. This would change the flow to a more efficient one. Being so, I would reinforce consistency trying to add more copies of cards that have similar effects (like enhanded spider-senses and Get behind me), as they are situational and we are not going to keep them for the right moment.

In the case of spider-man, I will give a try to Get behind me... in multiplayer at least.

 

Edited by Pritoos

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I found Captain America to be the best "Reaction Protection" build I've made mostly due to his high defense and retaliate, but also because he can easily ready so the defense actions are easier to play.

Protection/Spider-Man really needs to be at higher player counts I agree.  Whenever I try him in a 1 or 2  player game it doesn't work too well.  Maybe if that deck gets more ways to Thwart.  I find that's the real weakness.  Even if you are tanking every turn you still gotta clear that Threat that's ticking up.  Maybe he can work okay paired with a Leadership deck since he can heal the allies to keep them around to make up for Spider-Man's own lack of damage and Thwart options.

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Protection Captain America with Heroic Strike, Tackle and Mockingbird can reliably keep the villain stunned, and fall back on his defense, Shield Block and other Protection tricks to handle when the villain isn't stunned.  He's one of my favorite builds right now.

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