GMs, how often do you allow a PC to trigger the Dantari Crystal's ability in a single check?

[StriderZessei 948]

Personal experience and rules lawyering welcome. 

[Stan Fresh 2,465]

As many times as they have FP to spend, just like spending advantages for strain. No other limits are mentioned.

 

[Vek Baustrade 277]

I agree with Stan.

[StriderZessei 948]

Thank you both. I would rule the same, but I don't trust myself not to lean towards munchkinism from time to time. 

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

Honestly, it does come down to how literal the GM reads things.

To reference what Stan said about spending advantage to recover strain, the combat chart in the book specifically cites that you can do that multiple times (same with spending threat to inflict strain), while no other entry on the chart has such verbiage.  So going by RAW, Stan's argument falls flat because the Dantari crystal doesn't have the verbiage to say "can spend multiple FPs to recover strain."

Also remember that it's a specific circumstance, namely making a Lightsaber combat check in tandem with a Force power.  I've heard of some GMs reading "power" quite literally and thus preventing the crystal from being used in tandem with Force talents like Hawk-Bat Swoop or Draw Closer because those technically aren't powers.  I disagree with that interpretation, but it is out there.

Personally, given that for most PCs, the ability to make Lightsaber combat checks that involve rolling Force dice typically means a low Force Rating (or at least a very expensive increase where Niman Disciple is concerned), I don't see it as a problem to allow a Dantari crystal's effects to be activated multiple times.  It might be more of a problem with a character that's jacked up their Force Rating to 3 or higher, as they'll invariably have more FPs to spend on rapid strain recovery, which then counters what is the 'saber monkey's primary drawback (especially Ataru Strikers) of burning through strain very quickly, which in turn undercuts the core design tenet of combats in this system should generally be dangerous.  Which in turn goes along with Jay Little and Sam Stewart's intent that dice should only be rolled when the results would be meaningful; maybe it's just me, but if there's little to no risk involved in a combat sequence, then rolling combat checks isn't all that meaningful.

[Stan Fresh 2,465]

11 minutes ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

To reference what Stan said about spending advantage to recover strain, the combat chart in the book specifically cites that you can do that multiple times (same with spending threat to inflict strain), while no other entry on the chart has such verbiage. 

No it doesn't, not in the FnD core at least (haven't checked the others). And that's the relevant book here.

 

Edited February 6 by Stan Fresh

[EliasWindrider 2,714]

I disagree with dono about the applicability to force talents (the cases where I've gotten answers from devs is powers means powers not talents)

[Mattheau 8]

I have a player who has this crystal, and until I opened it to any force power used in combat it was literally useless. Even if the pc spends three or four fps on regaining strain, that is balanced by a dramatic damage decrease as well as giving the pc some utility. 

[MB -Fr- 172]

F&D core descriptions

Force talent indicates that a character must be Force-sensitive (have a Force rating of 1 or higher) to use the talent. The mechanics that govern Force talents are discussed in Chapter VIII: The Force. Some Force talents involve the use of Force powers (which are described in the same chapter), the Force die O, or spending Force Points 3 

dantari crystal: When making a Force power check as part of a combat check, a character using a lightsaber with a Dantari crystal may spend (J to recover 2 strain.

So by RAW, the dantari crystal effect is not applicable to force talents that do not use a force power. It's pretty clear

[Funk Fu master 825]

I read it as when making a lightsaber check, you can also make a force check and then spend pips to recover strain

It better be that way, its how I sold it to my wife's PC When she was crafting her lightsaber

[EliasWindrider 2,714]

7 hours ago, Funk Fu master said:

I read it as when making a lightsaber check, you can also make a force check and then spend pips to recover strain

It better be that way, its how I sold it to my wife's PC When she was crafting her lightsaber

That can be how it works at your table, but by RAW it doesn't give you extra actions.... it doesn't let you make a lightsaber attack and separately use a force power. 

[micheldebruyn 1,092]

Quote

dantari crystal: When making a Force power check as part of a combat check, a character using a lightsaber with a Dantari crystal may spend (J to recover 2 strain.

It doesn't specify the combat check needs to be a lightsaber check.

If a character is holding a lightsaber (for parry/reflect/whatever) and is making an attack with a blaster, or one of those blaster/saber hybrids from Rebels, or the Move power, I think it still qualifies for the crystal.

And of course someone using Ebb/Flow can use this on every lightsaber check.

Edited February 14 by micheldebruyn

[marbled 21]

I don’t think he’s saying you can make an attack and a force power check. I think he’s saying that the Dantari crystal allows you to add your force dice to your attack pool and then use the pips for recovering strain only. 

[Funk Fu master 825]

4 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

That can be how it works at your table, but by RAW it doesn't give you extra actions.... it doesn't let you make a lightsaber attack and separately use a force power. 

 

2 hours ago, marbled said:

I don’t think he’s saying you can make an attack and a force power check. I think he’s saying that the Dantari crystal allows you to add your force dice to your attack pool and then use the pips for recovering strain only. 

👍👍What Marbled said

[Varlie 1,004]

I have one character in my game with a Dantari crystal and I read it the same as Funk Fu Master. There was one extended battle where I asked "how are you still standing" but other than that it has not been an issue.  

[StriderZessei 948]

So could a Light Side Force user still recover strain with Dark Side pips?

It would mean taking conflict, but you'd still get one per dark and two per light. 

[Xcapobl 473]

1 hour ago, StriderZessei said:

So could a Light Side Force user still recover strain with Dark Side pips?

It would mean taking conflict, but you'd still get one per dark and two per light. 

Why not? You generate Force points with the orce die, possibly Light, Dark, or a mix of both. You spend them. And depending on your Morality, spending one or the other simply has consequences.

[Daeglan 5,950]

On 5/1/2020 at 2:52 AM, Xcapobl said:

Why not? You generate Force points with the orce die, possibly Light, Dark, or a mix of both. You spend them. And depending on your Morality, spending one or the other simply has consequences.

well using a darkside pip costs strain and a destiny point so i see no point.

[Xcapobl 473]

11 hours ago, Daeglan said:

well using a darkside pip costs strain and a destiny point so i see no point.

It costs 1 strain, to gain 2. That is, indeed, the only advantage you'll get out of it. Having to flip destiny is also a heavy cost. But in severe desperation, where the character has no choice (for example by only rolling dark pips and knowing you'll need some strain for that next parry or reflect without passing out...), you have the option.