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Rocmistro

Kyrsta on Admo

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What do you guys think of putting Kyrsta (admiral) on Admonition, take brace token to make the little guy absolutely unstoppable?  This would more or less require ECM in the defense slot, then outfit the rest of it offensively as you like.

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15 minutes ago, Rocmistro said:

What do you guys think of putting Kyrsta (admiral) on Admonition, take brace token to make the little guy absolutely unstoppable?  This would more or less require ECM in the defense slot, then outfit the rest of it offensively as you like.

I don't think you need to take an ECM - Agate's effect can't be targeted by an accuracy.

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I don't want to use the Brace for discard....(at least not initially)...I want to use it to...ya know...brace.

But as I understand it, Krysta and Admonition would allow for discarding 2 defense tokens in the same attack; 1 would remove a die and the other would trigger the effect of that token (regardless of accuracy).

The reason I mentioned requiring ECM is because the brace token would be , in this instance, the only defense token that Admonition only has 1 of.  (It has 2 redirects and 2 evades).

Edited by Rocmistro

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4 minutes ago, Rocmistro said:

I don't want to use the Brace for discard....(at least not initially)...I want to use it to...ya know...brace.

But as I understand it, Krysta and Admonition would allow for discarding 2 defense tokens in the same attack; 1 would remove a die and the other would trigger the effect of that token (regardless of accuracy).

The reason I mentioned requiring ECM is because the brace token would be , in this instance, the only defense token that Admonition only has 1 of.  (It has 2 redirects and 2 evades).

Throw Walex on there to get the token back - might be better than the usual Lando with this set up.

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Agate thrives on making one ship the absolute centerpiece of your list.  My sense is that Admo usually runs out of tokens and health at about the same time.  It is also susceptible to ram damage.  So in effect you’re paying 20 points for about the same effect that lando already gives you.  You were either going to live because you zoomed off at speed-4, or die because you took too much residual damage throughout.  Meanwhile, you also spent 20 points on a commander that made one ship better, where you could have spent a touch more for a more fleet wide effect.

i think you want Agate on a large probably at 170+ counting her as part of the package.  Certainly the Starhawk is Chief there.  The Liberty is another excellent candidate.  The MC75.

 

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To be perfectly clear: 

There's 2 Parts to the Commander.

 

The first is you gain a Token of your Choice.

That's a perfectly normal version of that token.  Use it as you see fit.

 

The Second is that you can discard any token to resolve the effect of that discarded token.

Its not limited to the Token she adds.  It can happen at any time to any token on her ship.

 

 

There are quite a few misreads and misconceptions out there right now.

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5 minutes ago, Grathew said:

I don't think you can flip Agate's token? It's throw a token to get the effect of said token right?

I'm not sure where it says or requires that.

It seems to me her card is 2 parts which are not directly related.

Part 1: you get a non-scatter defense token.  (my interpretation is that you can use this at any point just like any other defense token).

Part 2: You may discard 1 defense token (does not specify the token you got in part 1) to resolve the effect of that defense token.  This then protects you against "Accuracy"

 

NINJAED BY DRASNIGHTA

Edited by Rocmistro

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Just now, Drasnighta said:

To be perfectly clear: 

There's 2 Parts to the Commander.

 

The first is you gain a Token of your Choice.

That's a perfectly normal version of that token.  Use it as you see fit.

 

The Second is that you can discard any token to resolve the effect of that discarded token.

Its not limited to the Token she adds.  It can happen at any time to any token on her ship.

 

 

There are quite a few misreads and misconceptions out there right now.

Doing the lord's work friend. 

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16 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Certainly, as a singular (rather than multifocus) force multiplier, you want to apply your multiplier to as many points at once.

 

Agreed...but I can get a lot of work done with Admonition. What the MC30 lacks in hull points it makes up for in speed.

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Just now, Rocmistro said:

Agreed...but I can get a lot of work done with Admonition. What the MC30 lacks in hull points it makes up for in speed.

I'm not inherently disagreeing...  Its just the amount of work you expect to get out of it, based on what its points cost is, and wether or not you're actually *vastly* increasing its survivability.

 

I mean, If you assume that Admonition generally trades up 2x its points in a single attack run and then just barely gets away, the question you ask is, effectively, "by sacrificing any bonus given to the rest of my ships, how much more is that multiplyier going to be".

 

If Kyrsta is going to enable a literaly *second* attack run with composite trade up, then awesome!

 

If she's just going to let you get away with 2 Hull and no shields instead of 1 Hull and no shields.....    Eeeeeh?  Is it worth it?

 

I do state though, thati have HORRIBLE Luck and History with MC30s.  So I'm already biased to taking them, let alone taking her ON them :)

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7 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

If she's just going to let you get away with 2 Hull and no shields instead of 1 Hull and no shields.....    Eeeeeh?  Is it worth it?

I think I’m with Dras on this. My MC-30s typically survive, crippled, and it’s like, Agate isn’t gonna give them enough defensive juice to swing back for another run. 
 

The thought did cross my mind of slapping her on the Admonition (or even Foresight), though. It would definitely be a very difficult and infuriating ship to kill. Maybe give it a try? Let us know how it goes!

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29 minutes ago, Vergilius said:

Agate thrives on making one ship the absolute centerpiece of your list.  My sense is that Admo usually runs out of tokens and health at about the same time.  It is also susceptible to ram damage.  So in effect you’re paying 20 points for about the same effect that lando already gives you.  You were either going to live because you zoomed off at speed-4, or die because you took too much residual damage throughout.  Meanwhile, you also spent 20 points on a commander that made one ship better, where you could have spent a touch more for a more fleet wide effect.

i think you want Agate on a large probably at 170+ counting her as part of the package.  Certainly the Starhawk is Chief there.  The Liberty is another excellent candidate.  The MC75.

 

So, a couple thoughts on this.

1. I don't think Lando ensures as much damage mitigation as Kyrsta with a brace.

2. Taking Lando means i'm NOT taking another officer (ideally, one which can push damage through).

 

So here's my preferred Admo loadout with this:  Kyrsta, Intell Officer, OE, ECM, APT, H9, Admo Title.

In this example (and the reason I'm speccing this out) is to go toe-to-toe with ISD or similar big frontal ship. And the reason I like this is I don't have to be concerned with Initiative bid for Last/First activation.

So let's say I fly Admo right in front of ISD at end of turn 1.  Opponent goes first and unloads full frontal ISD2 shot on Admo.  Let's give him a really great roll:

Blues: 2 acc, 1 hit, 1 crit

Reds: 2 dam, 1 dam, 1 crit, 1 acc

He accuracies the brace and both redirects. I ECM the brace.  He's got 6 damage coming through.  I discard an evade token to stop the double dam red die, and brace the remainder ( 4 damage down to 2).  I take it on the chin (shields) cuz no redirects.

He moves, bumps me, we both take 1 damage card.

On my turn i unload double broadside (because of the head-on small ship to large ship opportunity).  I do a lot of damage but that's not important right now because the point of this example is to demonstrate durability.  Suffice to say, I probably won't kill an ISD in 1 activation of admo, even with double broadsides.  He bumps me again and we both take 1 damage.

On the next turn, he full-frontals me again.  Let's say he gets the same roll (the 3 accuracies is sweet spot; Anything more is redundant, and anything less is useless (unless its NO accuracies). I Admo-ditch the 2nd evade (down to 4 damage) and then brace it to 2.  Now if I let that through I'm going to die (1 damage will go to shield, and 1 to hull, +2 damage already from previous bumps, +1 incoming damage from the bump at the end of his activation).  So instead, I Kyrsta-ditch 1 redirect to move the damage to adjacent shield zones.  Even is he's got XI7's (and they always seeem to have XI7's), I will still live with 3 damage on my hull.  On my 2nd activation I should kill an ISD with double broadsides. 

 

I get it....this is all academic and doesn't take into account all the upgrades an ISD might have.  I'm just trying to demonstrate the fact here that with Brace, an MC30 can easily live through 2 full frontals.

 

 

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Fair points @Rocmistro

  my thought is that together, that ends up being an awful lot of points:   20 for Agate, 7 for the Intel, 7 for Ecm, minus 4 for lando.  At that point, Admo not only must be better than its usual self, but it must be 30 points better.

 

The hard part is that it isn’t just what the opponent is putting on the ISD, but what else is in the list entirely. What else does the ISD have.  Is it worth focusing down on Admo to score its additional VPs?  What units support Admo and what are they doing?  That’s probably too much and too hypothetical.  

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What about a little of this...? I love Agate on the SH of course, but I’m also dying to put her on an MC30 and see how tough it actually can be.

 

Name: Untitled Fleet
Faction: Rebel
Commander: Kyrsta Agate

Assault: 
Defense: 
Navigation: 

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63)
• Kyrsta Agate (20)
• Walex Blissex (5)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• H9 Turbolasers (8)
• Admonition (8)
= 120 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 51 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 51 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 51 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
= 18 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
= 18 Points

Squadrons:
• 5 x A-wing Squadron (55)
• Tycho Celchu (16)
= 71 Points

Total Points: 380

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1 hour ago, RogueCommander said:

What about a little of this...? I love Agate on the SH of course, but I’m also dying to put her on an MC30 and see how tough it actually can be.

 

Name: Untitled Fleet
Faction: Rebel
Commander: Kyrsta Agate

Assault: 
Defense: 
Navigation: 

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63)
• Kyrsta Agate (20)
• Walex Blissex (5)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• H9 Turbolasers (8)
• Admonition (8)
= 120 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 51 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 51 Points

CR90 Corvette A (44)
• Turbolaser Reroute Circuits (7)
= 51 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
= 18 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
= 18 Points

Squadrons:
• 5 x A-wing Squadron (55)
• Tycho Celchu (16)
= 71 Points

Total Points: 380

I’d put ATN on the Flots to guard your trc90s from MMJ

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8 hours ago, Vergilius said:

Admo usually runs out of tokens and health at about the same time.  It is also susceptible to ram damage.  So in effect you’re paying 20 points for about the same effect that lando already gives you.

 

2 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

Why not Admo AND an Agate mc30? Two unkillable 30s then...

QFT.

Agate on Admo is gilding the lily. 

You get little to no marginal survivability improvement on Agate/Admo over Lando/Admo.  The best that can be said is that you're opening up the officer slot... or are you really?  I could see the argument if there was an officer that dramatically improved the MC30 offensively, but as it is, there aren't a lot of officers that are all that amazing on it.  It's pretty much Lando, IO, or SFO.  All good; none worth dropping Red Fish, Crit Fish, or Death Wish for.

Edited by Ardaedhel

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14 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

 

QFT.

Agate on Admo is gilding the lily. 

You get little to no marginal survivability improvement on Agate/Admo over Lando/Admo.  The best that can be said is that you're opening up the officer slot... or are you really?  I could see the argument if there was an officer that dramatically improved the MC30 offensively, but as it is, there aren't a lot of officers that are all that amazing on it.  It's pretty much Lando, IO, or SFO.  All good; none worth dropping Red Fish, Crit Fish, or Death Wish for.

All good points. I think she may be better on the Lib in terms of what you get back in survivability vs cost

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1 hour ago, Ardaedhel said:

 

QFT.

Agate on Admo is gilding the lily. 

You get little to no marginal survivability improvement on Agate/Admo over Lando/Admo.  The best that can be said is that you're opening up the officer slot... or are you really?  I could see the argument if there was an officer that dramatically improved the MC30 offensively, but as it is, there aren't a lot of officers that are all that amazing on it.  It's pretty much Lando, IO, or SFO.  All good; none worth dropping Red Fish, Crit Fish, or Death Wish for.

I don't understand how  you can say that Agate on Admo is gilding the lily AND provides little or no marginal survivability....it's either one or the other.

That being said...I'm not sure also how you can say that Lando is a better defensive solution that a re-usable brace token...with the added ability for Agate to pitch one of the other tokens if necessary in a pinch.  Lando is one use...and may not give you much of a difference in outcome at all.

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