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Nheko

Speardancer and duels

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Can you use the Shika Speardancer ability in a duel with a katana? After winning initiative, and getting up close to your opponent with water stance, can you use the ability?

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2 hours ago, Nheko said:

Can you use the Shika Speardancer ability in a duel with a katana? After winning initiative, and getting up close to your opponent with water stance, can you use the ability?

Of course, why wouldn't you? You do not even have to close, in a Duel, you are ALWAYS in weapon's range, as per the rules.

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5 hours ago, Nheko said:

Can you use the Shika Speardancer ability in a duel with a katana? After winning initiative, and getting up close to your opponent with water stance, can you use the ability?

Rules: why not, see @Harzerkatze's answer above.

Socially: Much more tricky. Remember, this is the era when Hida Kisada absolutely scandalized everyone by using a Tetsubo in a formal duel. Are you the son-and-heir to the Daimyo/Clan Champion of a major clan? No? Then perhaps not expect people around you to respect the result of a duel where you used a spear. It might not be (as) legally binding as a (traditional) duel on swords.

Unless that was part of what was agreed before the duel.

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6 minutes ago, Tenebrae said:

Socially: Much more tricky. Remember, this is the era when Hida Kisada absolutely scandalized everyone by using a Tetsubo in a formal duel. Are you the son-and-heir to the Daimyo/Clan Champion of a major clan? No? Then perhaps not expect people around you to respect the result of a duel where you used a spear. It might not be (as) legally binding as a (traditional) duel on swords.

Unless that was part of what was agreed before the duel.

Nheko asked about using the ability with a katana. As the ability only requires a Martial Arts (Melee) check, there is no reason that it would not work.

And there would be nothing dishonest with using a technique known only to your family.

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I was interested more in the mechanic side than setting side this time. I thought for any weird reason the technique only applied when using spears, silly me needs to read more carefully.

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2 hours ago, Nheko said:

I was interested more in the mechanic side than setting side this time. I thought for any weird reason the technique only applied when using spears, silly me needs to read more carefully.

In that case, nothing that I'm aware of.

EDIT: But then, I used the Dueling mechanics for a game of Insults. Worked fine.

Edited by Tenebrae

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"Typhoon in the Bamboo Grove:

When making a Martial Arts [Melee] or Fitness check, you may spend 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf413431211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 to cause a number of characters no greater than your school rank and within range of your readied weapon to suffer the Dazed condition."

The School Ability doesn't restrict the scene type or weapon, so yes, it can be used in a formal duel with a Katana, giving your opponent Dazed (and hence TN+2 to attack you).

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

"Typhoon in the Bamboo Grove:

When making a Martial Arts [Melee] or Fitness check, you may spend 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf413431211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 to cause a number of characters no greater than your school rank and within range of your readied weapon to suffer the Dazed condition."

The School Ability doesn't restrict the scene type or weapon, so yes, it can be used in a formal duel with a Katana, giving your opponent Dazed (and hence TN+2 to attack you).

 

 

 

Doesn't matter, the opponent is in Earth Stance in a formal duel if they want to win.

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8 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Doesn't matter, the opponent is in Earth Stance in a formal duel if they want to win.

Depends on the respective characters and their ranks, and whether the Shika's opponent has a good enough Earth and Water ring to hide behind their Endurance and Composure.

(The odds are good - a Shika-born speardancer has high Air and Fire - meaning a comparatively minimal Composure, so it's likely their opponent's is higher). 

If you assume you're facing a dedicated and 'correctly built' duellist character, then I'd probably agree with you, but there are counter-arguments; for example, if someone is building a dedicated duellist for, say, duel to first blood, then there's a good chance they're going to want to use Heartpiercing Strike, which means you might well catch them in Fire stance.  

 

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1 minute ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Depends on the respective characters and their ranks, and whether the Shika's opponent has a good enough Earth and Water ring to hide behind their Endurance and Composure.

(The odds are good - a Shika-born speardancer has high Air and Fire - meaning a comparatively minimal Composure, so it's likely their opponent's is higher). 

If you assume you're facing a dedicated and 'correctly built' duellist character, then I'd probably agree with you, but there are counter-arguments; for example, if someone is building a dedicated duellist for, say, duel to first blood, then there's a good chance they're going to want to use Heartpiercing Strike, which means you might well catch them in Fire stance.  

 

It indeed depends on a couple of things.
"Most of the time" Earth Stance is all you need for First blood duels, but indeed, not all the time. A handful of tricks can have a chance. I was just being a bit silly and making fun of Earth Stance and how much I think it is ridiculous. Just ignore :D

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1 minute ago, Avatar111 said:

A handful of tricks can have a chance. I was just being a bit silly and making fun of Earth Stance and how much I think it is ridiculous. Just ignore :D

It's still a fair point. Of all the house rules and changes people (yourself included) have proposed, I do think the one I'd most like to see officially incorporated is to bring spending 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 against an opponent in Earth Stance in line with the 792424631_SuccessSmall.png.f580b7641c8c8 required to succeed against an opponent in Air Stance.

It'd add a lot of scope in a lot of places, but particularly for the archetypical duellist schools in formal duels who want to land a one-cut win.

 

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Will it be possible to make a good duelist out of a Speardancer? We’re playing an all MC game and was wondering if you could also add dueling to their repertoire.

 

If so, could you prove some tips for building it? Quick Reflexes for the Initiative? 

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5 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

It's still a fair point. Of all the house rules and changes people (yourself included) have proposed, I do think the one I'd most like to see officially incorporated is to bring spending 1211841275_OpportunitySmall.png.acf41343 against an opponent in Earth Stance in line with the 792424631_SuccessSmall.png.f580b7641c8c8 required to succeed against an opponent in Air Stance.

It'd add a lot of scope in a lot of places, but particularly for the archetypical duellist schools in formal duels who want to land a one-cut win.

 

You sold me on the Earth Stance houserule when you mentioned how weird it was when a bunch of minions were sitting in Earth Stance.

Add to that what it causes for duels... and how that stance straight up render a lot of techniques and abilities useless.
And it all start to make sense.
There should ALWAYS be a possibility to do a critical strike on a ring, even if it is harder.

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Just now, Nheko said:

Will it be possible to make a good duelist out of a Speardancer? We’re playing an all MC game and was wondering if you could also add dueling to their repertoire.

 

If so, could you prove some tips for building it? Quick Reflexes for the Initiative? 

Yes. Why not?
Would they be the best? No.
but do they have to be? No.
The GM will adjust.

The valid tips are always valid. Get Crossing Cut, get HPS eventually. If you can manage to slip in an advantage in there, go for it.

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4 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Yes. Why not?
Would they be the best? No.
but do they have to be? No.
The GM will adjust.

The valid tips are always valid. Get Crossing Cut, get HPS eventually. If you can manage to slip in an advantage in there, go for it.

The main thing I'd suggest that's specific for a Shika duellist is that with a (REALLY) high Air and Fire ring, I'd seriously consider looking into the various duel-applicable shuji. One of the best tricks a courtier/shinobi equivalent can do when you anticipate a duel is make sure you go into the fight knowing your opponent's advantages and disadvantages.

 

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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Thank you guys. I’ll remember that.

I want a well rounded bushi, who if need to be, be good at iaijutsu.

PS Who are the top out of the box duelist schools? Seppun, Mirumoto, Kakita, Hiruma, maybe Bayushi?

 

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If you're going to have a generic 'fair' fight, with swords, to first blood, probably the Mirumoto.

They've got the most flexible school ability and a decent ring set.

The more you drift into other specific duelling criteria, or are less bothered about a fight being strictly 'fair' as long as you don't get caught, the more the other schools will equal or potentially surpass them.

Seppun, for example, have Speed of Heaven and absolutely definitely will be going first against any vaguely equivalent opponent. Which means in a fight to incapacitation with heavier weapons, they're always one 'swing' ahead of any other opponent.

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