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Speculation about Clone Wars expansions

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6 hours ago, Cap116 said:

@M0N0LITH @Rmcarrier1 why not the CSS-1 was the flotilla? It is 80m long, and appeared in Ep1.  It is the closest ship Ive found that fits the general specs...

@Cap116 totally agree. CSS-1 would make a perfect Flotilla for GAR!! I also like the design and had it in mind but went for the AA-9 cause I love the agressive bully design and liked the fact that it was used as troop transport during TCW. 

But I think you‘re right, CSS-1 would be the better choice!

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@M0N0LITH the CIS used the Gozanti cruiser (ie the stock version, its ~68m, instead of the longer Imperial version).  I think it was in Season 5 of The Clone Wars tv show.  It could get some changes to the nav chart, or if there is a droid configuration upgrade slot, it could get that instead of the Offensive Retro....

@Grathew that is the C9979, it is wither 150m or 210m across, (basically a CR90 turned sideways), it might be a bit too big for a flotilla.

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57 minutes ago, Grathew said:

What about those landing ships from the Phantom Menace?

I agree here with @Cap116 that this would be more a small ship - especially as they only have very few!!

53 minutes ago, Cap116 said:

@M0N0LITH the CIS used the Gozanti cruiser (ie the stock version, its ~68m, instead of the longer Imperial version).  I think it was in Season 5 of The Clone Wars tv show.  It could get some changes to the nav chart, or if there is a droid configuration upgrade slot, it could get that instead of the Offensive Retro....

So maybe it‘s time to implement the C-Roc Gozanti to Armada?!? What do you think...

Then it dosn‘t look as if its another dublicate!!

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49 minutes ago, M0N0LITH said:

I agree here with @Cap116 that this would be more a small ship - especially as they only have very few!!

So maybe it‘s time to implement the C-Roc Gozanti to Armada?!? What do you think...

Then it dosn‘t look as if its another dublicate!!

It doesn't really look like a duplicate. There are 3 (different looking) versions of the gozanti:

Base(used by the seppies painted with the typical CIS blue on grey):latest?cb=20161229141657

Imperial:latest?cb=20140926140535

And of course the C-ROC:latest?cb=20190318233305

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On 2/3/2020 at 5:53 PM, Rmcarrier1 said:

With this in mind, I do wonder how the designers intend to handle the Republic. Once you exhaust the prominent ships from the movies (Consular cruiser, Acclamator, Venator), you quickly get into duplicate territory. Pelta. Arquitens. Republic CR90. Not that the designers can't differentiate them from the versions already in the game, but will it feel a bit like yesterday's news?

Additionally, it might simply be my lack of knowledge of all things Clone Wars, but I feel like the Separatists simply have more "stuff" that can be brought into the game. I wonder how they'll handle expansions if one faction has more to draw from than the other. Again, I may just be ignorant in this regard though.

Im hoping for the dupes that they release a clone wars campaign, with new ship cards for the dupes that exist that let them be taken by the new factions. More likely tho, we get repainted sculpts

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Okay, since I'm already partly at it let's clear up the duplicate myth. (almost?) All of the designs reused between OT and PT era are different in shape. So new molds are warranted in pretty much every case, which makes potential duplicates only ones in name.

Let's begin with the Arquitens:

Republic:

open-uri20150608-27674-j7d7z7_9233e453.j

and empire:

open-uri20150608-27674-lvc652_3769a7de.j

Luckily Lucasfilm animation provided us with a detailed schematic of the areas changed for the imperial Arq:

open-uri20150608-27674-d6arfi_16ab7b4a.j

It's mostly the bridge and the broadside turbolasers being replaced by additional escape pods. If you look closely enough you'll realise, that the torpedo tubes are closed as well. Funilly enough the official stats still have the turbolasers and torpedoes listet.

The Pelta first appeared in the Clone Wars film, so there's no neat CW concept art for it to be found offline. That's no problem though, since we've got art detailing the exact changes from rebels. It's way more significant than on the kittens:

latest?cb=20180321025654

The rebels version as a waaay shorter engine nozzle and some additions aroung the belly, comm tower area and bridge. Also none of the weapons are present on the republic version and it usually appears with those wings closed.

Finally we get to the gozanti:

CW:

open-uri20150608-27674-1lcxjad_a780c34f.

And imperial (for which again we have no official concept art, argh):

d6689f27466a620800ac93ba0bab78cb.jpg

The most notable differnce here are obviously the "wings" on the imperial one. That together with some reulting changes on the sides and the differnce in weaponry definetly warrants new models imho. Also note the text, the imperial is superior in every way and can carry fighters.

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CR-20 Troop Carrier [60m]

rwJfrMp.jpg

Good fit for a flotilla. Very reminiscent of the Consular and Arquitens

Odds of appearing: 25% - To obscure

CSS-1 Corellian Star Shuttle [80m]

CC4QGGY.jpg

Another solid entry for the flotilla spot

Odds of appearing: 99% - Fits the Republic aesthetic and would be a near mirror of the GR75

Consular Class Cruiser-Combat Refit [115m]

cyrZJpx.jpg

WDqGPX8.jpg

Right in the edge of Flotilla and Small. Lean more towards small

Odds of appearing: 99% - To iconic to pass up

CR70 Corellian Corvette [130m]

X15bROc.jpg

Definitely Small. I wonder if FFG could get those light details?

Odds of appearing: 75% - They could easily repurpose the CR90 and give it a new paint job. 

Stealth Ship {Carrion Spike}  [150m]

3asEzkI.jpg

YTwByyx.jpg

Another Small. Cloaking could be a fun new mechanic

Odds of appearing: 99% - Slick little ship with interesting design possibilities; I don’t see them passing this one up. 

Pelta Class [282m]

n24M8Ia.jpg

Small Base.

Odds of appearing: 99% - Already have the model

 

Arquittens Class [325m]

nUMEjeO.png

Small Base.

Odds of appearing: 99% - Already have the model

AA-9 Coruscant Freighter [390m]

cLmKB1Q.jpg

Small. Pretty big for a non combat ship. I don’t know about this one

Odds of appearing: 25% - To big for a flotilla, not enough guns for combat

Dreadnaught Class Heavy Cruiser [600m]

Xyw7Ure.jpg

Heavy Small in the same vein as the Gladiator or MC30. Fan favorite

Odds of appearing: 75% - Popular and fits a niche. Not much else in this size range

Acclamator Class Assault Ship [752m]

fxgQgDj.jpg

Medium base. Gotta have it

Odds of appearing: 99% - To iconic to not have it

Victory Class Star Destroyer [900m]

TBBnK2J.jpg

Medium Base

Odds of appearing: 99% - Easy repaint for existing model

Venator Class Star Destroyer [1155m]

Ade4yQd.jpg

Large Base. Why bother without it. 

Odds of appearing: 99% - To iconic to not have

Imperial Class Star Destroyer [1600m]

qz8nzXe.jpg

Large Base

Odds of appearing: 50% - Easy repaint of existing model, but Imperator is now Legends only

 

 

 

Edited by GrandAdmiralCrunch

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Gozanti Cruiser  [68.3m]

u8fMgVs.jpg

sWrkQNQ.jpg

Flotilla. Good fit 

Odds of appearing: 99% - Already have existing art

Trident Class Assault Ship [88.71m]

B8ozHqW.jpg

Could work as Combat Flotilla

Odds of appearing: 25% - To Weird 

Hardcell Class Interstellar Transport [220m]

3SCQInN.jpg

Small base. 

Odds of appearing: 99% - Not many options in this size range

Diamond Class Cruiser  [200m]

Z3cA7Mp.jpg

Small Base

Odds of appearing: 99% - Not many options in this size range

C-9979 Landing Craft (210m)

aMxoA19.png

Small Base. Awful large for a non combat ship. I don’t know about this one.

Odds of appearing: 50% - Well known but doesn’t fit the role of combat vessel and is too big for flotilla

Sabaoth Frigate [275m]

ywKPoRW.jpg

Small Base. 

Odds of appearing: 50% - Obscure but not many options for small CIS ships

Sabaoth Destroyer [#00m?] “Several Hundred Meters Long”

AV7FBSO.jpg

Heavy Small/Medium. Good Counter to the Arquitens/Pelta

Odds of appearing: 50% - Obscure but not many options for small CIS ships

Captor Class Heavy Munitions Cruiser [#00m?] “Several Hundred Meters Long”

ASfGksA.jpg

Heavy Small/ Medium. I know this one is a bit obscure, and I couldn’t find a definitive size for it, but I do think it would make a good counter to the Dreadnought class/MC30/Gladiator 

Odds of appearing: 50% - Obscure but not many options for small CIS ships

Munificent Class Star Frigate [825m]

TwQ2xPM.jpg

Medium Base

Odds of appearing: 99% - To iconic not to include

DH-Omni Supply Ship [909m]

ifSPrQp.png

Medium/Large. Really big for a non combat ship. I’m not sure about this. 

Odds of appearing: 25% - To big for a flotilla, not enough firepower for combat

Bulwark Class Battlecruiser MkI [1000m]

g5iFkbF.jpg

Medium/Large 

Odds of appearing: 25% - Obscure and several options in this size range

Recuscant Class Light Destroyer [1187m]

sqxk9tS.jpg

Medium/Large - I can see this going either way. 

Odds of appearing: 99% - Too iconic not to include

Providence Class Carrier/Destroyer [1088m]

pSU818i.jpg

I think this just looks girthier and should be a Large Base 

Odds of appearing: 99% - To iconic not to include 

Lucrehulk Class Battleship/DCS [3170m]

aiXmdiB.jpg

Large/Huge Base. This would be massive on the table

Odds of appearing: 50% - iconic, but size might be prohibitive 

Subjugator Class Heavy Cruiser [4,845m]

tPe7Gnb.png

Large/Huge. Another big boy

Odds of appearing: 50% - might not be well enough known for its size/cost

 

Edited by GrandAdmiralCrunch

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22 hours ago, xanderf said:

That feels 100% likely.  Indeed I could even see two each, that either or both would appear on all ships of the faction.  "Jedi General" and "Clone Squad" for Republic ships or "Strategy Droid" and "Network Upgrade" slots for Sep ships.

Really. I think that is 0% likely. Why would the Jedi or droid commander not just be faction specific officer? You know, like Palpatine, Vader or the Grand Inquisitor.

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7 hours ago, LennoxPoodle said:

Okay, since I'm already partly at it let's clear up the duplicate myth. (almost?) All of the designs reused between OT and PT era are different in shape. So new molds are warranted in pretty much every case, which makes potential duplicates only ones in name.

Let's begin with the Arquitens:

Republic:

open-uri20150608-27674-j7d7z7_9233e453.j

and empire:

open-uri20150608-27674-lvc652_3769a7de.j

Luckily Lucasfilm animation provided us with a detailed schematic of the areas changed for the imperial Arq:

open-uri20150608-27674-d6arfi_16ab7b4a.j

It's mostly the bridge and the broadside turbolasers being replaced by additional escape pods. If you look closely enough you'll realise, that the torpedo tubes are closed as well. Funilly enough the official stats still have the turbolasers and torpedoes listet.

The Pelta first appeared in the Clone Wars film, so there's no neat CW concept art for it to be found offline. That's no problem though, since we've got art detailing the exact changes from rebels. It's way more significant than on the kittens:

latest?cb=20180321025654

The rebels version as a waaay shorter engine nozzle and some additions aroung the belly, comm tower area and bridge. Also none of the weapons are present on the republic version and it usually appears with those wings closed.

I think all of this can completely be disregarded. We do not know what those ships really look like. We only ever see them in the Clone Wars or in Rebels, both shows with very different and very unique art styles. I mean, this is what an ISD looks according to Rebels:

thrw.jpg

Are you now going to argue that this is a different ship from the one we see in the movies because it as a way longer "neck"? No, because that would be stupid. The ship in the picture above is supposed to represent the same type of ISDs from the movies while still having a different art style.

We simply do not know whether any differences in appearance in the ships you listed are the result of the differing art styles of the shows or are actual differences in the ships. Those pieces of concept art unfortunately prove nothing.

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@GrandAdmiralCrunchThat's the small trident. I'd guess the large one would be a better fit. 

BTW I'd not be to sure about that legends stuff. FFG is claiming to be running out of ships for the GCW, if legends was still on the table that wouldn't be such a problem(apart from cards).

I wonder if the CIS and Republic could get their fleet support not on flotillas. Both Pelta and Hardcell are great fits for (unarmed) fleet support vessels and are a bit large for a flotilla.

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2 minutes ago, LordCola said:

I think all of this can completely be disregarded. We do not know what those ships really look like. We only ever see them in the Clone Wars or in Rebels, both shows with very different and very unique art styles. I mean, this is what an ISD looks according to Rebels:

thrw.jpg

Are you now going to argue that this is a different ship from the one we see in the movies because it as a way longer "neck"? No, because that would be stupid. The ship in the picture above is supposed to represent the same type of ISDs from the movies while still having a different art style.

We simply do not know whether any differences in appearance in the ships you listed are the result of the differing art styles of the shows or are actual differences in the ships. Those pieces of concept art unfortunately prove nothing.

I'd be inclined to agree. However the differences between the different cartoons are very likely to be included, since they exist in similar ballparks of artstyles. Also different proportions are one thing but things like differences in weaponry and completely different bridge shapes on the Arq would propably be translated over. After all the main features of the ISD also remain intact here but I still wouldn't argue that the proportions of TIEs and ISDs in rebels are canonical (although funilly enough the TIE fighter owners manual does. It lists the mining guild TIE as being wider than the noramal one.). Also so far FFG has remained relatively faithful to the Cartoons in things stemming from them.

What it boils down to, is that I think that (some of) these changes are to large to be written of as artstyle. 

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7 minutes ago, LennoxPoodle said:

What it boils down to, is that I think that (some of) these changes are to large to be written of as artstyle. 

I have to disagree. All differences listed by you are insignificant compared to the difference between the Rebels and move ISD. So if differences of that magnitude can be written down as artstyle then so can all of the ones you listed.

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1 hour ago, LordCola said:

Really. I think that is 0% likely. Why would the Jedi or droid commander not just be faction specific officer? You know, like Palpatine, Vader or the Grand Inquisitor.

Because then the ships would have to HAVE officer slots, or gunnery team slots, or whatever, and that means every upgrade in the game that already EXISTS for those slots has to be tested with the Republic and Separatist ships, their own unique upgrades, their squadrons, their Commanders, etc.

It's not impossible, but it adds a lot of work.

If you remove some of the current-standard slots, and replace them with period-specific slots, you free up a LOT of possible troublesome options and reduce the work you have to do to balance everything (IE., 'Weapons Team' slot is gone, so no using 'Gunnery Teams' on these ships.  But maybe there is a 'Clone Squad' slot and a 'Republic Gunners' upgrade that fits in it, which lets you make two attacks from one hull zone as long as one of those attacks is against squadrons.  It lets you get similar effects, but weaker and different...and hopefully cheaper.  But the key advantage is allowing totally-new upgrades without having to test everything against everything else, or making ALL of it faction-specific.)

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1 hour ago, LordCola said:

I have to disagree. All differences listed by you are insignificant compared to the difference between the Rebels and move ISD. So if differences of that magnitude can be written down as artstyle then so can all of the ones you listed.

The thing is that the main features in those ISDs are the same. Sure, the proportions are off and everything's quite simplified, but the base shapes remain intact. If something is elongated in an animation show I write it off as representation through artsyle but if a new triangle is added I guess that means it's different. Just look at the rebels AT-ATs. They are so different that they got considered a new suptype which even got its own close to life atcion version in Fallen Order. The contrast here is that the base features are changed beyond warping (gun mounds, viewport flat with main head geo). But that's all irrelevant and we can agree to disagree.

In the end this is about two questions: 

Will FFG do "duplicates for TCW? I guess yes. If you cut the Arq and Pelta the republic uses to much ships to really be viable.

Will they be different molds? That depends. They could certainly get away with just different paint jobs like the Chimera (missed chance for an ISD-I mold btw). These aesthetic differences in animation however give them the opportunity to make them something new entirely. Packaging, paintjob and cards + cardboards have to be redone anyway, quite possibly with mechanically differing variants for the new factions. So why not depen faction identity even more by making them look different?

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2 hours ago, LennoxPoodle said:

@GrandAdmiralCrunchThat's the small trident. I'd guess the large one would be a better fit. 

BTW I'd not be to sure about that legends stuff. FFG is claiming to be running out of ships for the GCW, if legends was still on the table that wouldn't be such a problem(apart from cards).

I wonder if the CIS and Republic could get their fleet support not on flotillas. Both Pelta and Hardcell are great fits for (unarmed) fleet support vessels and are a bit large for a flotilla.

That was the size I pulled off Wookiepedia. Any info where I can find data for the bigger one? 

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I’m really looking forward to all the new possibilities that a bunch of new cards will bring to our GCW games. I’m sure most cards with either be unique to the time era (unique officers) or faction specific. But I’m sure there will be several new cards that will work in both timelines in the new CW Box alone. 
 

Plus, it’s going to be awesome having a all of our current GCW cards that can be used on the new ships right away. 
 

Its going to be rad and I can’t wait...but I know that I will have to! 

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9 hours ago, LennoxPoodle said:

I wonder if the CIS and Republic could get their fleet support not on flotillas. Both Pelta and Hardcell are great fits for (unarmed) fleet support vessels and are a bit large for a flotilla.

I think they will implement flotillas for TCW as well - one reason is sticking to gameplay and the other -> why miss out on selling a product when there are good miniature possibilities!?! 
CSS-1 & C-Roc Gozanti!!

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