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Cpt ObVus

Speculation about Clone Wars expansions

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2 hours ago, LordCola said:

I think there is a very big hole in imperial large ships: The broadside large ship. That would be a nice "niche" the Venator would fit in perfectly.

Is that a feature or a bug for the Imperials?

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5 hours ago, Green Knight said:

Because, based on how FFG actually operates, this doesn't happen.

It's not impossible.

Just extremely unlikely.

And that’s what I don’t understand. It seems like such a good idea from a business perspective. You give players who can’t afford/don’t want a whole new faction something to keep them interested & you sell 2 acclamators instead of 1. Everyone is happy.

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3 hours ago, Grathew said:

Anyway I'm hoping we get to see some cross faction ships mostly a republic Victory, Pelta, and Arquitens. Empire Venators would be cool, but I don't see where they would have a place beside the ISD. The ISD 1 for example can be a squadron 5 carrier with boosted comms. Add any of the token generation officers to the Empire and you can get squadron 6 out of it. For the cheaper options you have Harrow to be mini-Squall and Squall both comming in tens of points lower. Unless there is a niche I'm not seeing in the Imperial Carrier options, I doubt we will get Venators for the empire. 

 

I’d prefer imperial Acclamators but if I were to do imperial venators id do them as high squadron broadside ship. But keep it reasonably average on guns & a low engineering value (to represent age of the design). Hull would be high.

But yes in general I think only a select few ships should be cross faction for rebels & empire. Enough to flavour but not detract the uniqueness of the new factions. 

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22 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Yep, all of it. 
Especially if there’s any love for the Alliance/Empire in the new stuff. Gimme dem upgrades and new Objectives!

I know there’s a lot of hope that some of the ships could be released as dual-faction Republic/Empire or [insert new faction here]/Rebel ships, too. Is there any precedent for this in X-Wing or Legion?

X-Wing First Edition had First Order and Resistance as sub-factions of Empire and Alliance, respectively.  I think the trouble with the Clone Wars stuff comes from, which faction pairs with which?  The Republic sort of became both the Empire and the Alliance, while the Separatists kind of died out and became neither.

One thing I'd like to see would be Separatists get some way--likely costly--to generate a couple very weak Squadrons a turn, to represent their seemingly endless swarms of cannon fodder.

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On 1/30/2020 at 12:24 AM, Drasnighta said:

Design has an intent to keep each faction distinct in its own right.  At the point you start crossing you start diluting - which totally can work thematically, don’t get me wrong, but it disarms the incentive for entire faction play more than it encourages single box pickup “on the long term”.

Generally speaking. 

With this in mind, I do wonder how the designers intend to handle the Republic. Once you exhaust the prominent ships from the movies (Consular cruiser, Acclamator, Venator), you quickly get into duplicate territory. Pelta. Arquitens. Republic CR90. Not that the designers can't differentiate them from the versions already in the game, but will it feel a bit like yesterday's news?

Additionally, it might simply be my lack of knowledge of all things Clone Wars, but I feel like the Separatists simply have more "stuff" that can be brought into the game. I wonder how they'll handle expansions if one faction has more to draw from than the other. Again, I may just be ignorant in this regard though.

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37 minutes ago, axe238 said:

As I look into my crystal ball, I see a Chimaera-style release of Venator for Imperials and a Braha'tok flotilla for Rebels.😊

I can actually see them doing that! Having the resolute(Anakin’s venator) being “the chimera” of the republic with the first venator being ones like the Negotiator(Kenobi) and Endurance(Windu)

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I was wary of the clone wars stuff too but having it come to legion has been really positive. Im looking forward to the armada version.

In legion, the empire and rebels have distinct playstyles but the faction identity is really emphasised with the clone wars factions ie clone trooper token sharing, fire supporting etc.

Im guessing there will be something similar for clone wars era. Recycling droid squadrons and maybe some sort of ship AI for example.

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10 hours ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

Additionally, it might simply be my lack of knowledge of all things Clone Wars, but I feel like the Separatists simply have more "stuff" that can be brought into the game. I wonder how they'll handle expansions if one faction has more to draw from than the other. Again, I may just be ignorant in this regard though.

How comes you think Seperatists have more to offer?

GAR                                                  vs.          CIS

AA-9 Freighter (Flotilla)                vs.         ?
Consular Class C70 (Small)          vs.         C-9979 (Small)
Pelta Class (Small)                         vs.         Munificent Class (Medium)
Arquitens Class (Small)                vs.         Recusant Class (Medium)
Acclamator Class (Medium)        vs.         Providence Class (Large)
Venator Class (Large)                   vs.         Lucrehulk Class (Large or hopefully Huge)

I especially omitted the Subjugator Class (Malevolence - Huge) as I don´t think that the ship will make it into the game...

Same for squadrons:

GAR (16):
NuClass Shuttle
LAAT Gunship
V-19
Delta-7
V-Wing
Clone Z-95
Arc-170
Nubian Starship
Nubian Diplomatic Barge
Nubian Yacht
Nubian Star Skiff
N-1 Naboo Starfighter
Theta Class Shuttle
BTL-B Y-Wing
Actis Class
Twilight

CIS (15):
Vulture Droid
Hyena Droid
Tri-Droid
HMP Droid Gunship
Umbaran Starfighter
ETA Class Shuttle
Geonosian Solar Sailer
Geonosian Starfighter
Sith Infiltrator
Rogue Class Starfighter
Trade Federation Droid Bomber
Sheathipede Shuttle
Geonosian Ginivex
Slave I
Soulless One
 

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6 hours ago, M0N0LITH said:

How comes you think Seperatists have more to offer?

GAR                                                  vs.          CIS

AA-9 Freighter (Flotilla)                vs.         ?
Consular Class C70 (Small)          vs.         C-9979 (Small)
Pelta Class (Small)                         vs.         Munificent Class (Medium)
Arquitens Class (Small)                vs.         Recusant Class (Medium)
Acclamator Class (Medium)        vs.         Providence Class (Large)
Venator Class (Large)                   vs.         Lucrehulk Class (Large or hopefully Huge)

I especially omitted the Subjugator Class (Malevolence - Huge) as I don´t think that the ship will make it into the game...

Same for squadrons:

GAR (16):
NuClass Shuttle
LAAT Gunship
V-19
Delta-7
V-Wing
Clone Z-95
Arc-170
Nubian Starship
Nubian Diplomatic Barge
Nubian Yacht
Nubian Star Skiff
N-1 Naboo Starfighter
Theta Class Shuttle
BTL-B Y-Wing
Actis Class
Twilight

CIS (15):
Vulture Droid
Hyena Droid
Tri-Droid
HMP Droid Gunship
Umbaran Starfighter
ETA Class Shuttle
Geonosian Solar Sailer
Geonosian Starfighter
Sith Infiltrator
Rogue Class Starfighter
Trade Federation Droid Bomber
Sheathipede Shuttle
Geonosian Ginivex
Slave I
Soulless One
 

Well there’s a lot of CIS ships that you’re missing out on..there’s the CIS supply ship(medium/small), the carrier(medium/small), the bulwark(medium), then you could even potentially add the hardcell transport ship, and they’re definitely going to add the malevolence, I think it’ll be an oversized large ship(similar to the Starhawk).  There’s also the umbaran support ship(medium) there’s lots more content for the CIS than the republic.

Edited by mattmaclaren31

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11 hours ago, M0N0LITH said:

How comes you think Seperatists have more to offer?

GAR                                                  vs.          CIS

AA-9 Freighter (Flotilla)                vs.         ?
Consular Class C70 (Small)          vs.         C-9979 (Small)
Pelta Class (Small)                         vs.         Munificent Class (Medium)
Arquitens Class (Small)                vs.         Recusant Class (Medium)
Acclamator Class (Medium)        vs.         Providence Class (Large)
Venator Class (Large)                   vs.         Lucrehulk Class (Large or hopefully Huge)

Well, it would seem you answered my question for me! Remove the duplicates and the AA-9 freighter (which I actually had to look up as I had no idea what that was; seeing that it's the transport from Ep. II, I highly doubt it will be included in the game), and you're left with just three ships. (Which is what I said in my post. 😉 ) And as @mattmaclaren31 pointed out, your list above excludes a lot of Separatist ships that could potentially make it into the game. Suffice to say, I still have the same concerns about Republic content.

But to reiterate what I already said above, yes, it's possible they'll include duplicates for the Republic. At this point, I think they'll have to, in fact.

 

Edit: I do think the Subjugator will make it into the game as a Huge ship (though it's impossible to say with certainty, of course). An entire generation of Star Wars fans grew up on the prequels and Clone Wars TV show, so I suspect the new factions will generate just as much interest as the current game.

Edited by Rmcarrier1
An additional thought

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2 hours ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

Well, it would seem you answered my question for me! Remove the duplicates and the AA-9 freighter (which I actually had to look up as I had no idea what that was; seeing that it's the transport from Ep. II, I highly doubt it will be included in the game), and you're left with just three ships. (Which is what I said in my post. 😉 ) And as @mattmaclaren31 pointed out, your list above excludes a lot of Separatist ships that could potentially make it into the game. Suffice to say, I still have the same concerns about Republic content.

But to reiterate what I already said above, yes, it's possible they'll include duplicates for the Republic. At this point, I think they'll have to, in fact.

Well the only reason I suggested the transport is that the republic needs a flotilla haha, and on wookipedia it says it was repurposed for troop transport during the clone wars. And I also think we could potentially see the victory(yes a duplicate) used in the republic, and then maybe the praetor and/or the sector class? There’s also the invisible ship from the episode of CW: cat and mouse. I really think they’ll do 2 releases of the providence and venator, the second versions being the resolute led by Anakin, and Tranch’s Providence destroyer, anyways I’m just reiterating the fact that the separatists have a lot more options at this point lol

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So what are we at?

Republic:

(AA-9)

Charger C70

Stealth Corvette

CR80

Arquitens (some different shapes from imperial variant)

Pelta (varies significantly in shape from the rebels version in TCW. Also no weapons, so possibly the republics fleet support platform)

Acclamator

(Victory)

Venator

CIS:

Gozanti (seen in TCW: bound for rescue, different than both imperial and C-ROC)

Trident (the larger version seen in the Mon Cala arc)

Hardcell

Diamond

Umbaran Support Ship

Munificent

Recusant

Providence

Lucrehulk Core

DH-Omni

Lucrehulk whole

(Subjugator)

Verdict:

Looks like 11(12) to 7(9) in favor of the seppies, unless I've forgotten something. That's most likely the case.

Edited by LennoxPoodle

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27 minutes ago, LennoxPoodle said:

So what are we at?

Republic:

(AA-9)

Charger C70

Stealth Corvette

CR80

Arquitens (some different shapes from imperial variant)

Pelta (varies significantly in shape from the rebels version in TCW. Also no weapons, so possibly the republics fleet support platform)

Acclamator

(Victory)

Venator

CIS:

Gozanti (seen in TCW: bound for rescue, different than both imperial and C-ROC)

Trident (the larger version seen in the Mon Cala arc)

Hardcell

Diamond

Umbaran Support Ship

Munificent

Recusant

Providence

Lucrehulk Core

DH-Omni

Lucrehulk whole

(Subjugator)

Verdict:

Looks like 11(12) to 7(9) in favor of the seppies, unless I've forgotten something. That's most likely the case.

Personally I don’t think they’ll do just the core of the lucrehulk..but I could also see the bulwark and the CIS carrier being added eventually, plus maybe that prototype invisible ship for the republic?

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14 hours ago, Rmcarrier1 said:

Remove the duplicates and the AA-9 freighter

 

Why remove the AA-9? First of all it´s a beautiful and iconic ship and I would love to see it in play. Second, GAR needs a Flotilla and as you´ve already said - it was featured in Ep. II and was also present in various comics. I think it would be a fantastic choice to implement it.

And yes, CIS might have some more ships but cross out the Gozanti (dublicate), the Diamond (barely seen daylight!?) and the Lucrehulk Core (which makes no sense to include it additionally to the Lucrehulk whole - except they produce a huge Lucrehulk where the core is removable to play it as a large ship - what actually would be quite nice!!!)
Personally I´m not a big fan of the DH-Omni as Í don´t like the design and it´s to similar to the Lucrehulk Core... The Trident is fairly small (88m) which makes it half the size of a CR-90 -> Maybe as a squadron?

Conercning the Umbaran Support I totally agree that it has to make it into the game as I love the design and it would be a nice variant as CIS flotilla?!?

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@M0N0LITH the umbaran vessel might be a bit larger than you think:

open-uri20150608-27674-gooldh_3099f421.j

Regarding the trident, I was referring to what wookieepedia refers to as Trident Class Drill Assault Ship, the one creating the big swirl on Mon Cala. This thing seems to be larger than the normal 88m.

But sure, some of the seppie vessels could be cut. I myself wouldn't be a fan of the gozanti either, although it is the not yet seen in miniature form, seemingly unarmed, base variant.

@mattmaclaren31I have left legends out for now.

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12 minutes ago, LennoxPoodle said:

@M0N0LITH the umbaran vessel might be a bit larger than you think:

open-uri20150608-27674-gooldh_3099f421.j

Regarding the trident, I was referring to what wookieepedia refers to as Trident Class Drill Assault Ship, the one creating the big swirl on Mon Cala. This thing seems to be larger than the normal 88m.

But sure, some of the seppie vessels could be cut. I myself wouldn't be a fan of the gozanti either, although it is the not yet seen in miniature form, seemingly unarmed, base variant.

@mattmaclaren31I have left legends out for now.

Uuhhh, that is definitely a bit bigger that I thought it was...

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7 hours ago, M0N0LITH said:

Why remove the AA-9? First of all it´s a beautiful and iconic ship and I would love to see it in play. Second, GAR needs a Flotilla and as you´ve already said - it was featured in Ep. II and was also present in various comics. I think it would be a fantastic choice to implement it.

I just have my doubts, is all. Time will tell! 😉

I will say this though... if it is included in the game, there is no way that it will be a flotilla. According to Wookiepedia and StarWars.com, it’s big enough to be a Medium base. Nearly 400m in length — about 2.5x as long as a Corellian Corvette and 1/3 longer than a Nebulon-B frigate.

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True, read that as well... beside that it would fit perfectly!! Is there a rule that a flotilla must be a small base? As per FAQ I can‘t find a rule saying that ;)

FLOTILLAS
The rules for flotillas should read:
“The ship included in this expansion is a flotilla. Ships of
this type feature two plastic ship models (instead of one). Flotillas follow the same rules as other ships with the following exceptions:
When a flotilla would overlap another ship (or be overlapped by another ship), deal one facedown damage card to the flotilla. Do not deal a facedown damage card to the closest ship the flotilla overlapped (or that overlapped it) unless that ship is also a flotilla.
• A flotilla cannot equip a T (commander) upgrade card.”

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On 1/29/2020 at 6:51 AM, M0N0LITH said:

I am pretty sure that they will implement some new Icons or Keywords that will only apply for the CW ships or squadrons - like DRIOD, FORCE or similar...

That feels 100% likely.  Indeed I could even see two each, that either or both would appear on all ships of the faction.  "Jedi General" and "Clone Squad" for Republic ships or "Strategy Droid" and "Network Upgrade" slots for Sep ships.

That gives FFG a way to release upgrades that do new and interesting things for those factions without having to test them against EVERY other ship/faction-specific upgrade/Commander combination in the game, which can't use them.  Also: allows faction-specific thematic flair, which is always nice.

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17 minutes ago, Cap116 said:

@M0N0LITH @Rmcarrier1 why not the CSS-1 was the flotilla? It is 80m long, and appeared in Ep1.  It is the closest ship Ive found that fits the general specs...

I confess I'm a pretty big fan of the CSS-1's look.  And it pairs very well aesthetically with the Consular-class (aka Charger c70).

Bonus: anyone still hanging on to a 1st edition X-Wing game can sub in that model for the token in the core set 'Political Escort' mission... 😎

EDIT: It's also one of the neat things about the Clone Wars era, is that WITHIN the faction you can split it up for your own gaming.  IE., something X-Wing 2.0 players have already done a bit.  The Republic on its own is great fun to play against the Seps...but you can also run Clone fighters vs Jedi fighters from within the same game faction for an 'Order 66'-style scenario.  Having more of the OLD 'old Republic' ships like the Consular and CSS-1 makes an interesting contrast within the Republic fleet vs the newer "war"-period ships like the Acclamators and Venators.  In some ways, the Clone Wars is a three-faction era, given the Republic is sort of two factions in one.  (Wouldn't it be interesting if FFG found a way to make that a thing in the game...no idea HOW that could work, but...I dunno, maybe mostly it is all one faction, but there are a couple Clone/Republic Commanders that are only available if you have no Jedi forces, or one or two Jedi as Commanders that are only usable if you have Jedi-allied forces or something?)

Edited by xanderf

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